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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

For New Readers:

This is a lengthy blog and can seem quite overwhelming. It describes not only the painting of an army but the evolution of a 20-year long idea about that army. It has involved a lot of community participation throughout and no matter how new you are to the party... I welcome your comments and your ideas.

To simplify matters, I have made a few links to summary posts of the work to date & links to battle reports featuring my Mantis Warriors. So... read the OP, check out the summaries & you should have all you need to jump ri6ght in and begin to contribute! And please contribute! This blog with be a shadow of itself without all the contributions of it's readers. It's NOT a "lookie what I did" kind of blog... it's much more of a living, breathing, community project (often literally as readers have done their own Mantis Warriors or contributed original sculpts to the effort). If you want a little more reading... the first 3 pages hold a lot of the theoretical stuff & should give you an idea of my thoughts on the chapter. Keep in mind this is all pre IA-10... though I don't plan on changing my opinions much post IA-10. From what I've seen however, with a few minor differences I think my ideas are pretty comparable with theirs. Gotta love it when a plan comes together. :-)

So welcome to the effort! I hope you enjoy it and find something of value in the following pages.

Cheers!
Gits

Most recent army pic (zoomable in the gallery)


P&M Summaries:
First P&M Summary (pg. 56)
Second P&M Summary (pg. 90)
Third P&M Summary (pg. 115)
Fourth P&M Summary (pg. 136)
Fifth P&M Summary (pg. 165)
Sixth P&M Summary (pg. 200)
Seventh P&M Summary (pg. 250)
Eighth P&M Summary (pg. 296)
Ninth P&M Summary (pg. 349)
Tenth P&M Summary (pg. 402)
Eleventh P&M Summary (pg. 497)

Battle Reports: (note, many of these are on other blogs and against my kids... so don't expect to see the height of 40k tactics, just fun games!)
Mantis Warriors vs. Chaos Demons
Mantis Warriors vs. Doom Eagles
Mantis Warriors vs. Bad Moonz & Eldar (report spread out over 3 pages)
Mantis Warriors vs. Doom Eagles II
Mantis Warriors & Space Wolves vs. Dark Eldar & Dark Angles
Mantis Warriors vs. Nids
Mantis Warriors & Lamenters vs. Blood Ravens
Adepticon 2011, Game 1
Adepticon 2011, Game 2
Adepticon 2011, Game 3
Mantis Warriors vs. Tau (1500 pts)
Mantis Warriors vs. Imperial Guard (2000 pts)
BA Mantis Warriors vs. Space Wolves (1000 pts)
BA Mantis Warriors + BA vs. IG (2000 pts)
BA Mantis Warriors vs. BA Doom Eagles (1000 pts)
Tyranids vs. BA Mantis Warriors: (1000 pts)
BA Mantis Warriors vs. Orks: (1000 pts)
6th Edition: Mantis Warriors vs. Necrons (1500 pts)
Mantis Warriors as DA vs. Doom Eagles as C:SM (1000 pts)
Mantis Warriors as DA vs. Necrons (1000 pts, Adepticon FOC)
Mantis Warriors as DA vs. Necrons II (1000 pts, Adepticon FOC)

Gitsplitta's threads that make you go "Wow!": Threads that inspired me early in my time on dakka (mostly).
Git's Tips on making a P&M blog: Building a better blog.
How I do my yellow: Yellow Tutorial
Our team's display book for Adepticon 2012: The Adeptinomicon
Tutorial on an easy method for painting checkerboards: How to paint Checkerboards
My chipping tutorial: Chipping Tutorial
My rust tutorial: Sponge Rust & Soot Tutorial
Git's Handy 40k Sinage: Imperial Propaganda Posters, Chemical and Industrial Warning Signs


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Project & Personal Intro

For roughly 20 years I have had a Mantis Warrior army... initially chosen because everyone had space marines and at the time, the fluff did not support chapters fighting one another save in the Herasy... with one exception... the Badab Rebellion. So one of my friends and I chose two of the rebel chapters, I took the Mantis Warriors, he the Lamenters. For 20 years the Mantis Warriors have served as my "second army" or... practice dummies for my main force... usually eldar and most recently orks. During this time however, they have been a constant presence... and slowly worked their way into my thoughts demanding a more substantial role. Their rather unique story in the 1000 chapters, their crusade/punishment, the original artwork in the first ed. rule book, their very name all invite a wide array of possibilities. Over the years I have thought about, pondered, even occasionally written up some of my ideas... but the latest eldar or ork goo-gaw always drew me back from any serious attempt at building the chapter.

Recently however, I've decided that the time has come to finally provide justice for my chapter and do them right... from scratch. There are a few units/figures that will carry over from my existing army, but only a few. Even then most of those models will only be temporary as they will eventually be replaced by special models. Most will get re-designed and re-built from scratch using specific armor styles and weapons, and I hope... custom helmets for the whole chapter. (Does anyone know a good sculptor? I'm not sure I'm up to this part.) Essentially most figures will be converted in some way, and in some cases to a high degree. The other thing is that I have no time limit... I'm not building this for any tournament or competition. I'm just going to relax, take all the time I need... and do it right. Which makes it a great project to do with the aide of this blog because I'll have plenty of time to consider everyone's comments and advice as I work my way through the project.

I know others have attempted the same thing, for probably very similar reasons. I have read with great interest their efforts, and have enjoyed them tremendously. For this project however, I will follow my own vision. I ask you to forgive my hubris in doing so.


Chapter Background *Please note; this entry was made *before* the release of IA 9 & 10 (as my interest in the chapter began back in the distant past). I invite you to read these books as I feel they've handled the Badab War and the Mantis Warriors very well, but they aren't the inspiration for this effort. It's the original fluff, brief as it is... that inspired me so many years ago & continues to do so to this day.

The best synopsis that I have found is given on the Lexicanum web site. While there are at least 3 or 4 sites that provide chapter summaries, the Lexicanum is the only one including references... and since I'm a science guy, having references is important. I reprint key elements of the text without permission. I also include the link to the site in case this isn't allowed & is deleted by the Mod (my apologies if so).

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mantis_Warriors

The Mantis Warriors (or Mantis Legion) are a Space Marine Chapter, founded as part of the 598.M35 founding, created to help relieve the White Scars in monitoring and countering the many threats harboured by the Maelstrom.
During the Badab War, the Mantis Warriors sided with the rebel Astral Claws; along with the Executioners, and the Lamenters.

Many Mantis Warriors believe that their chapter is cursed and many outside the chapter still regard them as traitors despite their official pardon. In Warrior Brood by C.S. Goto, they are described as "a chapter on the edge of the law, teetering on the brink of oblivion and approaching the borders of extinction, fighting desperately to regain its place amongst the chosen. They were not outlaws or renegades, but they had no home in the Imperium of man."

Here's the original artwork for them out of the "Compendium"... also reprinted without permission... sorry GW, but it's all I got...




What follows is the original story of the Badab War written by Rick Priestly as it appeared in White Dwarf 101. It is solely responsible for starting me on this journey so many years ago. I reprint it here without permission but with full credit given. Thanks Rick, you little story has given me over 20 years of a wonderful hobby which I now share with my two children and for which, I can never thank you enough.

The Badab War by Rick Priestley (White Dwarf 101)

In 901.M41, as a result of Lufgt Huron's apparent mental destabilisation, the Master of the Tiger Claws and Lord of Badab attacked and destroyed an Imperial investigation fleet as it entered orbit around Badab. Huron's action can be understood with the benefit of hindsight. The Adeptus Mechanicus had long complained of the Tiger Claws' tardiness in submitting gene-seed for routine analysis, whilst the chapter had amassed a huge debt in planetary tithes stretching back over a hundred and fifty years. And when the Imperium moved against its wayward chapter, a full scale rebellion was initiated, the most serious of its kind since the end of the Fourth Quadrant Rebellion in 780.M41.

The Tyrant of Badab, as Commander Huron is known in Imperial histories, was a power-hungry and ambitious individual who should never have risen to power within a Marine Chapter. He was plainly a dangerous individual, able in many respects but lacking the absolute dedication to humanity vital in a Lord of the Imperium. It will never be known for sure, but current hypotheses suggest that the Commander was either an alien shapechanger, or otherwise subject to alien domination of a most unnatural kind. A sudden and unexpected manifestation of psychic powers may lie at the heart of the matter.

By 903 three other chapters, the Mantis Warriors, Executioners and Lamenters had joined the rebellion. Imperial shipping was attacked, and a ship belonging to the Fire Hawks Chapter was captured by the Mantis Warriors in 904. The Fire Hawks immediately retaliated, and soon five whole chapters were involved in the fighting. The Emperor recalled the Marines Errant from the Eastern Fringes, but they quickly found themselves fully occupied protecting Imperial ships in transit.

In 906 two more loyal Marine units, the Red Scorpions and the Minotaurs, had been brought in, and the threat to Imperial shipping was more or less quashed. In 907 the Red Scorpions and Fire Hawks were recalled to their normal service duties in the galactic east, and two more chapters, the Novamarines and Howling Griffons were committed to space-lane duties.

Meanwhile, the Star Phantoms began the task of besieging Badab whilst two other chapters were drafted in to investigate the worlds occupied by the Mantis Warriors and Executioners. The Lamenters were caught in an ambush by the Minotaurs in 908 and eventually surrendered after bloody ship-to-ship fighting. This came as a great blow to the Tyrant, and the rest of the war consisted almost entirely of close sieges. The uprising came to an end in 912 with the fall of Badab and final defeat of the Tiger Claws. Before the war was over, The Exorcists, Fire Angels, Salamanders, Space Sharks and Sons of Medusa all became involved for short periods of time; chapters replacing other chapters as pressures elsewhere necessitated their re-deployment.

With the rebellion over, The Mantis Legion, Executioners and Lamenters were granted the Emperor's forgiveness, subject to undertaking a hundred year crusade. The homeworlds of the Mantis Legion and Executioners were forfeited to the Space Sharks and Star Phantoms for their part in the war. The other legions received salvage rights to spacecraft and a proportion of the booty. The Tiger Claws were all but destroyed. Only a contingent of about two hunded fought their way through the Exorcists' blockade and escaped into deep space. They have not been heard of since. Of the fate of Imperial Commander Lufgt Huron, Master of the Tiger Claws and Tyrant of Badab, nothing is known.



I have some very clear ideas about what I'd like to do with this chapter, other things are totally up-in-the-air. I welcome any and all comments on any aspect of this project, but please keep in mind that while your comment or idea might be a really, really good one. It just may be about one of those few things that I have my heart set on doing in a specific way. Even if that's the case though... I want to hear your ideas anyway. This blog will cover everything from modeling, painting to army construction and philosophy... so the sky's the limit!

This message was edited 915 times. Last update was at 2017/01/13 14:33:56


   
Made in se
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine






Ever since I read Warrior Brood I've loved the Mantis Warriors, and even if the book is considerd by most to be a piece of gak, I'd still recommend it. It gives a nice inside look into the chapter.

So I'm behind you 100% can't wait for the first model!

Woff, I'm a Cow! 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

Looks Good, I love you thinking behind it, so long as you don't relax too much and actually post stuff!

Otherwise, I'll be keeping track, good luck.

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

No worries, I'll post. Limited to text for the next few days... but I have the first squad 's conversions in-process & will get them up when I can. There's a lot to talk about and consider though... so I think there's room for interesting discussion between now and then.

   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





Pleasant Hill CA

i read the book also, and have been wanting to see somebody acutlly do a MW army. I will be keeping tabs on this, if you keep it updated that is

Da Red onez Alwayz go Fazta!
1750
Da Red Boyz: 24-1-5
W-T-L 
   
Made in ca
Three Color Minimum






I'm not familiar with the chapter. Is the idea of a Mantis carry over in any way to their tactics, weapon choices, etc? I just got a cool idea for special lightning claws shaped like Praying Mantis fore-limbs (not very knowledgeable in Mantis physiology either apparently). Tactics-wise they would be patient stalkers with lots of snipers and few drop-pods.

Either way, cool idea

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" -Issac Asimov (open to interpretation)  
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear






Bedfordshire, UK

I've never seen a decent Mantis Warriors army. I'm looking forward to someone with such a lot of love for the chapter getting his teeth into this.

The world needs more Badab armies. I intend to start one myself, but only after the current two are finished.

   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Las Vegas

This should be a fun modelling experience for you, considering that they can't get new recruits.

I think that you should try and make it look like their armour is beat-up, alot of their tanks look destroyed, and such. It would show that they do not have the manpower to replace Techmarines, Apocatheries, and such to fix things.

Or, you could make it look like each trooper has experience in making battlefield repairs, healing others, and just about everything. It would show that the chapter has relied on having multiple duties assigned to one guy so they can conserve manpower.

If I had a dollar for every dollar I spent I'd have all my money back.
[url=http://s1.zetaboards.com/New_Badab/index/]
[/url]
 
   
Made in us
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






Wyoming

I like the idea of everything being super damaged. I would think its as if not repairing their gear and/or not recruiting new units, the mantis warriors are in effect performing some act of penance.

When I read the story that you provided that is the type of feeling I get, that the Mantis Warriors are like a man who has just cheated on his wife (the emperor) and wants so badly to get back into her good graces he will do anything. This is cool because the Mantis Warriors now are required to be heroes who really risk themselves. Which from a creators perspective will allow you to do really cool modeling and conversions with these guys (maybe thinking back to some of the heroic games you have fought with them and giving individual units or models their own stories).

I don't really know what else to say, just thought getting the ball rolling would help.

Kurgash wrote:Penetrate or ignore it. Standard law of Man and Necron apparently.
 
   
Made in pe
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

Well, I'd go for a detailed project, closely mixing the fluff and the modelling. Each character/squad has its own story, kind of like this Word Bearers or Apologist's infamous Praetors of Calth log.

You mentioned that the chapter isn't traitor, but isn't accepted by the Imperium anymore either. Well, it wouldn't surprise me if there were elements amongst the survivors who will resent the Imperium for this and might even be tempted to go into the Maelstrom to join Huron and his Red Corsairs.

Bits Blitz - the place to be for all your bits needs!

Too much sanity may be madness - world building through digital sculpting.
 
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges






Mostly, on my phone.

Have a look at Keratis Warriors from Confrontation; their helms and bodies have mandibles and pincers; my suggestion would be that you could press mould the pincers, which would give you a flat edge that you could then attach to Mk6/7 SM helm. Generally, Dirz/Scorpion bits might work well for the project. Just my tuppence; good luck and looking forward to blog!

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"  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





A potential theme you might want to tap into is maybe an East Asian influence.

Reason being is that its not exactly implausible (in fact, I'd say perhaps very likely) that White Scar Geenseed was used to make the mantis warriors, given their specific purpose at helping to relieve the white scars themselves- and as its pretty well established, the white scars are Space mongols - added to that the whole 'Praying Mantis style Kung Fu' and an East Asian theme might start coming together!

And you don't see too much of that when it comes to space marines, either

In fact, the theme of the wandering warrior monk rather fits the theme of the mantis warriors (but then, so does the mythological theme of Hercules, the repentant sinner looking for Atonement through great and heroic deeds)

   
Made in ca
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






In a Toyota, plotting revenge.

Can't wait for the models!

metallifan said: I almost wonder is "Matt Ward" another pen name for C.S. Goto?
metallifan said: The Imperium would probably love Hitler...
Play KoL! Click my sig to go to the main website and sign up!
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

Love seeing older Chapters from the original rulebook. I have fond memories of that page. Wasn't there a Space Sharks Chapter? Now that would be cool...

   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Darkest Kent (England)

Sounds good.

Subscribed

Okay, I've been on a bit of a hiatus 2011-14

Currently working on my Riot Guard.

DA:90-S+++G+M++++B+++I+Pw40k99+D++A+++/cWD142R++T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in ca
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






In a Toyota, plotting revenge.

Flashman wrote:Love seeing older Chapters from the original rulebook. I have fond memories of that page. Wasn't there a Space Sharks Chapter? Now that would be cool...

Yes indeed.
[Thumb - SpaceSharksColours.jpg]
the space shark colours.


metallifan said: I almost wonder is "Matt Ward" another pen name for C.S. Goto?
metallifan said: The Imperium would probably love Hitler...
Play KoL! Click my sig to go to the main website and sign up!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

All-right guys... first update, have unexpected access to a normal computer with a keyboard, so this'll be a little easier than I thought.

Really excited about the response from everyone, I'll try not to disappoint. Cool that some of you are thinking along the same line as I am, some not, but all good either way.

So, first some set-up... I can't find the reference at the moment, but the suggestion is that the Mantis Warriors were sent into the maelstrom after the Astral Claws as their crusade. Hunt down their old allies and all that. Think about that for a minute. They'd just finished a losing effort in the Badab War, then sent for 100 years into the physical manifestation of chaos in this reality, bereft of material support or recruits. 100 years of perpetual war, with no way to replace casualties or equipment. Make no mistake... this crusade was a suicide mission... and the Astartes knew it.

So how did they survive? What changes would occur to the structure of the chapter during this period? I don't think it's enough that they would just look beaten up, no way they would have survived 100 years of constant warfare against their equals (Astral Claws), the crone worlds, pirates, exodites, cultists, deamons, or whatever else they would have been surrounded by. Something fundamental would have had to change within the chapter to allow them to emerge in-tact. Also I believe that there must have been a realization within the Astartes itself that if they didn't recall the Mantis Warriors, they would lose the chapter entirely. Further, that if the Mantis Warriors were to survive, immediate support in men and materials would need to be provided. I don't pretend to know if they succeeded in their crusade or not, but I do know that they would emerge an entity unlike any other chapter in the Imperium.

I (obviously) have some pretty clear ideas on the above subjects... but since it's 1 AM... I think I'll leave you with that provocative problem to ponder... (there are just so many!... love the MWs for that)


   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut






New Zealand

Enjoying the thread, good to read up on some old chapters from an era i wasnt in, the history sounds slightly harsh tbh..
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






After/with the other blog, I'm looking forward to this one.

Check out my blog at:http://ironchaosbrute.blogspot.com.

Vivano crudelis exitus.

Da Boss wrote:No no, Richard Dawkins arresting the Pope is inherently hilarious. It could only be funnier if when it happens, His Holiness exclaims "Rats, it's the Fuzz! Let's cheese it!" and a high speed Popemobile chase ensues.
 
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge






Personally I find the notion that they were sent into the maelstrom after their old (traitor) allies either very unbelievable or very ill advised.

Considering they would not have any support or re-inforcement, and that they had just fought WITH the claws, and they will be in the Maelstrom, it would make them ideal for corruption. I would say that is the last place they should do their crusade.

If I was in charge I would have sent them after something straightforward like Orks or something.

That being said: I think they would have very much adapted to a "life behind enemy lines": dressing in disguise (repainting their armor to disguise), using xenos weaponry, armor and vehicles, employing guerilla tactics. If they were outmatched, pitched battles would be their undoing so fast strikes would be important.

Just my $0.02 while I try to avoid writing about loan modification and foreclosures for school.

- in progress
Easy Company Project Log 
   
Made in ca
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






In a Toyota, plotting revenge.

Well, since the mantis warriors were in a hundred year war with no support or anything like that with the tainting warp effects, can we expect to see some beat up csm bits in there?

metallifan said: I almost wonder is "Matt Ward" another pen name for C.S. Goto?
metallifan said: The Imperium would probably love Hitler...
Play KoL! Click my sig to go to the main website and sign up!
 
   
Made in us
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






Wyoming

the minute that any of the other SM chapters realized that the Mantis Warriors were tainted... I think they would get smoked. I mean I know if they went into the warp there would be some effects. But they can't be so noticeable that they are considered traitorus excomunicae.

Kurgash wrote:Penetrate or ignore it. Standard law of Man and Necron apparently.
 
   
Made in nz
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






Whangarei , New Zealand

This is cool, last time I saw a P&M blog without pics it degenerated pretty quick and had to be locked, here it's generated a great discussion.
Gitsplitta I hope you realise how much respect you've earnt from the Dakka community with your Doom Eagles blog, keep it up man!

PS. that said I can't wait to see what you come up with your talent and the mass of ideas that have been suggested already

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I tend to glue metal models with a combination of BSI cyanoacrylate and my tears of frustration.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

I have to agree that my thinking is much more along a line with Luke's than otherwise. The MW's still have to be "pure" or they would have never been accepted back into the fold by the Astartes. My "changes" are much less drastic than what most of you are coming up with, but they are consistant with what I think would be neccessary to have a chapter survive this ordeal. And I promise i'll stop talking cryptically and get to some distinct ideas... but first let me tell you WHY my ideas for the chapter are toned down to the extent they are.

Rule #1 (the only rule): The army must be able to be played in any standard game or tournament without any special dispensation. i.e. it must follow a standard codex.

Building a really neat special army with all kinds of cool powers is great... but if I can't take it to any 40k game in the world and play it... it's useless. That being said, over the years I have pondered many interesting special abilites and rules to give the Mantis Warriors a special charachter... and I'll post and discuss them happily. In the end however, the direction that I'm chosing to follow is that of a 100% legal army under a standard codex in the 5th Ed rule set as I refuse to give anyone else "veto" authority over my army list, nor do I have any intention of doing all this work and end up with an army that I can't play under any circumstances.


So... given the above... the chapter needs to be based on a current codex. I am not interested in playing them as a traitor chapter, as I'm not certain that what passes for current official fluff supports that and frankly I'm just not a chaos guy. However I would LOVE to see someone work on a traitor version of the MWs at the same time that I work on the loyalist version. Just too cool for school, that! But I digress... They are a natural fit for one of the demi-human chapters given their "mantis" name, however none of the existing demi-human chapters is even remotely close to insectoid in nature... so there is no natural fit from a biological standpoint. Though we know the MWs are a second founding chapter, we don't know from who, so again... no help there. All things being equal then, I've chosen to use the basic marine codex as my starting point. First it is a very flexible codex, and I think I can pull in all the main threads that I've identified for the chapter within it's pages. Secondly, as THE base codex of 40k, it tends to be the most resilliant and resistant to the whims of radical change driven by the rules designer-du-jour of any given edition, so hopefully after putting in all this work on 5th ed, I won't have to totally scrub it when 6th ed comes around. Remember, I've seen a lot of rule sets and armies come-and-go, wax-and-wain in power and abilities over the years... I want my chapter to last.

OK, so those are some of the practical, mundane gaming considerations that have led me down my current path. Next I'd like to share some of my thinking on what would have been necessary to keep the chapter alive and faithful (aside from the zeal of the troopers) during the crusading period, after which I can share my ideas for force organization and unit construction & design. I'll tip my hat this much... I think almost all of what will make the Mantis Warrior army unique, can be accomplished through the FOC, careful and fluffy modeling, the "counts as" trick and the choices I make in deployment and play. If one day GW wants to take the chapter in hand and give them the full treatment with all the special powers that makes their other principal chapters unique... God bless 'em. But I don't need that to happen to field the army of my desire. I am confident that by using my ideas combined with your input, I can work within the existing rules to make a very unique and interesting chapter, that though it comes from the Ultramarine 'dex, is NOT the Ultramarines. Perhaps in it's own a way a true reflection of a "successor chapter"... sharing an origin (the codex) but totally unique in it's application.

Time for a drink.... and some time to collect my thoughts. More later. - GS





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackhand: Sincerely... thanks. It has really been fun, helpful and deeply satisfying to be a part of this community. And I haven't given up on the other blog... it's just on hold for a bit due to current temporary circumstances, in a week or so I hope to be able to get that one rolling again with (hopefully) some painting progress made by the boys. It will probably slow over the summer as they find other, outdoor things to occupy their time (which they should, frankly), but I'm determined to stick with it... and juding by the enthusiasm the boys have shown for our time working on 40k together... I don't think they're likely to lose interest.

This one won't stay text... again I'm kinda prevented from doing anything else at the moment. But there are so many things to discuss, foundations to lay, rationalle to explain, ideas to share with a project like this... I thought that perhaps being limited to text at the start might be a good thing... because people could take the time to focus a bit on the deeper issues involved rather than getting all tied up in the modeling and painting right from the start. A project like this is definatly "big picture"... so you have to be able to stand back from time to time and see the forest... not just the trees that surround you (as the saying goes).

Anyway... thanks. Been a great ride so far!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/04/18 05:35:19


   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Las Vegas

Okay, I love the amount of detail you put into this, its alot more than "I'm going to put a few things together, how I WANT IT, and call it a chapter."

I would like to throw a few Ideas at you on Organisation, mainly based around fluff, but what could actually be used to cement your chapter.

1. Attacking worlds is probably the primary things the Mantis Warriors would be doing in the Maelstorm, so troops, supplies, reinforcements, etc. would have to be moved around a lot faster then a ground offensive could pull. I was thinking that their vets would be in drop pods most of the time.

2. Since the Mantis Warriors had to hunt down the Astral Claws, and the Astral claws are Space marines no doubt, they would have to break some pretty clever traps, destroy fortress after fortress, and even repel rapid redeployment of enemy forces. I thik you'll want to go with a Mechanised look to your force, just because it would fit all of those roles pretty neatly.

3. They were exposed to the maelstorm for 100 years... No psykers for you.

4. My last thoughts are a little more around objective based games, but on the lines of number 1, The Mantis Warriors would have to make their own fortifications in the event of being counter-attacked at their planetfall site. I was thinking of making it look like the Techmarines took used drop pods and turned them into bunkers for their bretheren.

5. Command structures would be smaller, mainly due to no reinforcements. I would suggest instead of dividing the troops into companies, you set them up into strike units. One strike unit would be for securing a beachhead, another for reinforcement, etc.

Hope these help!

If I had a dollar for every dollar I spent I'd have all my money back.
[url=http://s1.zetaboards.com/New_Badab/index/]
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Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






Indianapolis

First off I am super excited to see how you take this. I can't wait to see the models as well. I was always a fan of chapters that had more then one paint scheme such as the MW with their camo. I also like the fact that you're putting in the time to work on background first. Everything is easier once you have the "why" aspect worked out.

I havn't read the Deathwatch book that was mentioned but I plan on reading it. I reread the MW section a couple times and after thinking about it you could almost go a couple routes. Do you remember the space wolf 13th company models? After spending time in the warp they had become the wulfen and they ended up using chaos equipment because they ran out of their own after awhile. You could go that route and have it be justifiable. However, when they returned the loyalists probably be so keen on having a "loyal" chapter using tainted equipment.

If a chapter wasn't getting reequipped they would have most likely exhausted all of their supplies, so maybe you could have some of your models have bare arms or legs, more like scouts. Or you could even have your tanks look a bit more rattled, have some extra plates put on there. If the Mantis Warriors used varies types of camouflaged armor, by the time their trip was over you know they would have had to of used nearly all of it. Maybe in your army you could have random members be wearing desert camo or jungle camo or even mismatch the armor to show that they are using whatever they have left.

After typing all of this though, I have a question for you. The Badab crusade was still a super long time ago in the grand scheme of 40K. Are you trying to make the Mantis Warriors look like they did when the first emerged or like they would be now? They did make it out of the warp and survived the ordeal. Do we know if they got their home world back?

Another random thought, maybe each sergeant or leader figure in your army could look like a chaplain, not necessarily use the rules but if a chapter spent so much time in the warp the chaplains would have had to of been on constant look out for corruption in the chapter.

Wow, I still have a lot more thoughts and suggestions but I think I'll let you enjoy these first. lol, i look forward to seeing where you take this. Thanks for letting us monitor your work in progress!

   
Made in us
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






Wyoming

I definitely agree with the posts from above.

As far as HQ choices go I think that you have potentially 4 choices:
-Chapter Master - The tactical head of your chapter, the only way that the Mantis Warriors could have ever hoped to have survived a 100 year ordeal without any sort of reinforcements. This seems like a no brainer for your army (Pedro Kantor, not that you need to use his rules).
-Captain- same reasons as above without the omg he his the chapter master coming to do battle.
-Chaplain- As they said above, a chaplain would provide all your spiritual support, he would be tough as nails and keep your chapter from succumbing to chaos. Without one, I doubt that any chapter could ever survive those perils.
- Master of the Forge- If you decide to go mechanized, there is no way that your chapter could survive without a techmarine. The MOTF would provide the same level of support as a chaplain, but to the machines instead of the bodies.

Logistically it seems proper to allocate the HQ slots to the Chapter Master/Captain and the Chaplain and dedicate an elite slot to the Techmarine. Now you can always make a storyline that fulfills one of these roles (after being essentially kicked out of the imperium everyone was so zealous to repay themselves that they didn't need a heroic chaplain or one that has been stated that the SM just had to repair their own vehicles). I don't think you can get around the Chapter Master/Captain though.

But I like where all this is going and I am definitely interested in reading more!!!

Kurgash wrote:Penetrate or ignore it. Standard law of Man and Necron apparently.
 
   
Made in au
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets






Orstraylya

You know, is it just me or do the Chapters that came out twenty years ago have more character than the ones we're stuck with today?

 
   
Made in au
Tunneling Trygon





The City of Nothing

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:You know, is it just me or do the Chapters that came out twenty years ago have more character than the ones we're stuck with today?


Yes. Yes it is.

Can't wait to see more.

Winston Churchill wrote:I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

Great ideas guys, thanks! Gives me lots to think about, and I will cover/encorporate a lot of them in upcomming posts.

I haven't actually read the book with the Mantis Warriors in it either. Would love to, but at the same time am a bit nervous that it would contradict some of the ideas I'm fairly attached to. Not that that fact would necessarily change my direction... but still.


Excellent question that was asked earlier that I need to answer... My version of the Mantis Warriors takes place fairly soon after their return. They are rebuilding, but still have much of their "crusade" charachter.


This evening's little brain feast consists of some ideas that I've developed about the things that would have needed to change in the chapter for it to survive the crusade... None of this is directly fluff supported... they're just my ideas, but I think they're logical and consistant with the 40k universe.

First, let's step into the way-back machine with Mr. Peabody and Sherman and travel back to the first edition rule book and supporting materials of the time. There-in began my love affair with the concept of the Sisters-of-Battle... or nuns with guns. There were a couple of photo's of a couple of painted figs... figs that I never saw anywhere for sale... and a great bit of fluff to support. (be patient, this does relate to the current project) The story told that the duty of the Sisters was to insure the purity of the gene seed of the space marines. That sisters would travel from chapter to chapter, with a special scanner attached to a pistol that fired an adamantium rod or piston. The weapon could be held to the head of a marine and detect if the gene seed was tainted, if so, the piston would fire automatically driving the rod into the head of the marine... termanating him and preventing the spread of the taint. At least that's my recollection of the tale. I do not vouch for it's accuracy. I do vouch for the fact that we thought this was so awsome a story... we all wanted Sisters of Battle (but at the time there were none to be had).

Back to the issue at hand... How would the Adeptus Astartes know that the Mantis Warriors had completed their task? Clearly an apparent suicide mission was accepted as fair punishment for their transgressions, but certainly they would not have "fed" the ranks of the traitor chapters by sending an already compromised loyalist chapter into the maelstrom without any sort of monitoring or way of resisting taint, or a ray of hope for salvation. My idea is thus... a Cannoness of the Sisterhood would be assigned to the C-n-C of the Mantis Warriors for the duration of the crusade, to monitor their progress, to assure the purity of the gene seed of the chapter, and assure that the individual marines stayed free of taint. Then would report back to the Adeptus Astartes with her findings. It would have also been made clear to the Mantis Warriors that if a cannoness failed to report at the end of, or survive her tour of duty, the chapter would be immediately declared renegade and treated as traitors. Every 5 years the cannoness would return to the Imperium to make her report, and a new connoness would be sent to take her place. While the existance of the "monitor" (or spy) would be hated and resented by the chapter, they would realize that she represented to sole chance for them to regain their place amongst the loyal bretheren. She would be reviled, feared and treated with reverance all at the same time. Their greatest hope, their greatest shame... a constant reminder of their betrayal of trust, as well as their only road back to salvation. The frequent rotation would ensure a zealous enforcement of Astartes law by the cannoness, and prevent a cult of personality from forming in the ranks of the Mantis Warriors. Now, I have no idea what is going on in the minds of the author of the book, but my feeling is that the Mantis Warriors did not complete their crusade, but their relentless pursuit of their foes brought them to the very brink of destruction. It was a cannoness' report that alterted the Astartes of how critical the situation had become, and the accumulated record of the chapter while on crusade, through these reports, convinced the AA to officially pardon and recall the chapter before the point of no return had been reached.

Now that the Mantis Warriors have returned, there would be no need to have a cannoness in the top eschelon of the command structure any more. However, I think it would now be a point of pride for the chapter that their motivations and loyalty be seen as beyond reproach. As such, they would request that the post of the cannoness be retained, until such time as the chapter was returned to full strength and full status in the Adeptus Astartes. To represent this, I plan on fielding a Cannoness of the Sisterhood in any command squad I make. I've actually been doing this for a long time, and already have a decently painted cannoness figure in hand... though I will probably strip the fig and re-paint in the final iteration of the army. I just use her as a marine equivalent & don't attempt to ascribe any special powers or abilities to her, so in gaming terms she's just one of the command squad marines, but in chapter look, feel and fluff she's very important.

Flame away... I know this'll make some of you nuts... I can take it.





   
 
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