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 DOOMBREAD wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

DOOMBREAD wrote:
1. I believe I can answer most of your attacks with a dash of Quotehammer:

6th ed. Rulebook wrote: Victory against this unforgiving and unstoppable force (The Necrons) will require the lesser races to stand united, and time for them to do so is swiftly running out. With every world the Necrons reconquer, the ancient empire comes ever closer to rebirth.

There it is. Official fluff confirming my points.

Aww, sorry man, missed out on that all important bonus point that was on offer. I'm afraid that is a faction-specific piece of fluff written in the Necron section of the rulebook, and therefore falls under the "dis army is da bestest army, if you play dis army you will bash all ova armies" category, where you will find similar entries for each of the other factions, therefore invalidating it. So sorry.

2. I was post-shifting because I hadn't understood what you meant by popping up piecemeal.

Really? I didn't think there were any other way for it to be understood. Oh well, fair enough I suppose. At least you're now more informed about the Necron fluff.

3. You said that I was unable to grasp the simplest of concepts, and that I was spinning around on a merry-go-round of ignorance. You kinda may as well have said "I am right because I'm better than you."

Yes, I said that it "seems that you are unable to grasp this most simplest of concepts". A perfectly valid and appropriate evaluation of your contribution to this discussion. You have tried to assert things which aren't true, which I have shot down, against which your only answer is to regurgitate the same "no I'm right and your wrong" response. This has continued for many posts, leading to my merry-go-round analogy - again, a perfectly valid, accurate assessment because your refusal to back down when you've been proven wrong is a characteristically ignorant behaviour, as is not knowing some basics in the fluff about which you are debating. Conclusion? My statements are born of observation applied to message board etiquette only. I have not sought to attack your own person (I have neither the knowledge nor the desire to do so), and, more importantly in the context of an ad hominem, I have not sought to do so as a way to attack your argument. That I have managed just fine using the conventional manner.

1. Everything in the passages for individual factions is, in fact, official canon. You won't find anything contradicting canon in the army entries.
2. Let's say two people are debating, and one person says "I'm right because I'm smarter than you." The other person accuses him of the use of ad hominem attacks. He responds "But I am smarter than you."
That's what you just did.

it's so hard to find someone who grasps the differences between promotional information and i dunno... proof. Can you name planets? wars or galactic stability campaigns like eye of terror, Armageddon or how about box sets or official codex fluff? Just because someone finds a few sentences stating something vague as "this army will likely take over the entire galaxy" is no different than the ork main slogan of our army which is on the back of our codex ... it is only a matter of time before the Orks unite once and for all and drown the stars in a torrent of mindless violence

Every bit of these descriptions are cannon, if space marines were not bound by the Codex Astartes to limit the number of participants to 1000 members per chapter which was a dispute after the results of the Horus Heresy. Only a few chapters break this paramount rule, the Black Templar and the Space Wolves to my knowledge. considering the process is only about a decade of augmentation within 100 years the universe could be surrounded by super humans capable of facing any threat. they reason they do not is the envitability of renegades.

The Tau do not wish to advance too rapidly for their education camps and alliances must be tentatively and meticulously governed otherwise the views of the greater good could be compromised to corruption

The nids do no choose their battles wisely they simply advance one planet after another confident in their armies being victorious, This has recently changed through the governance of special characters like the Swarmlord but ultimately Nids are so reviled by all factions that all newcomers will face them even Necrons! This ultimately means the Nids should move tactically to win but never have or will.

This list could go on and on EVERY faction is made to feel invincible..

Chaos is labeled as "The greatest threat" as it's main title of 40k on page 218 of the new rulebook. It's entry ends exactly like this

No planet is beyond their reach and their is no world that doesn't fear their coming."

By your own system of statements this now means it's cannon to say Necron's fear Chaos. Do you see how stupid this is going to get yet? Allow me to continue.

Orks pg. 201 "The green menace"

The Warboss known only as The Beast nearly took over the galaxy, and it can only be a matter of time before another apocalyptic greenskin rising takes place"

here we go again, another statement of promotional fluff stating that ... unlike even the Necrons that orks are just destine to take over the Universe. No one can stop them it's an apocalyptic event. See here is the difference i take this fluff witha grain of salt, they won't take it over and if they do it's cause GW wants to change the story but you are saying this promotion main rulebook fluff is what is cannon not the battle reports, not the storyline and not even the stories written in other player's codexes or minds.

Infact the concept you are clinging to this idea so adamantly rather than realize it's a fictional story that is suppose to be told by the... actual game, books or various other forms of intellectual property you assume that a mere 2 sentences not only entitles you to know what GW means is the ultimate destiny of the franchise (which has remained unchanged for 30 years plus now i might add...) or the fact that the IOM is still the most popular armies of the 40k franchise that somehow... the universe because of 2 sentences... is doomed.

Seriously man, I am done please stop posting less you write a thesis on this idea of yours and just remember the novelty of the post was suppose to be a mere prediction and accept that it's not widely believed it will be coming to pass.

Everyone but the Orks, Tyranids, and Necrons will be dead, then the Tyranids eat the orks and leave, followed by the Necrons as they start getting bored. The galaxy is left as a dead, lifeless husk, utterly silent, with nothing but barren worlds and Necron monuments left to attest to the former hellish conditions. Chaos will be long dead, deprived of any warp power as all suitable races die out. The Imperium will also be dead as it finishes crumbling under the ever increasing power of emerging xenos threats. The Eldar will be swept away by the tide of violence as the galaxy dies, crushed forever by the orks, tyranids, and necrons. The Tau are also swept away not long after the sun sets on the human hegemony, enjoying a brief golden age before a massive waaagh, hive fleet, or Necron dynasty destroys them. The Dark Eldar straggle on for a little before they either starve or the webway is breached and Commoragh gets razed. The minor races also all die, the Hrud will probably be among the last to succumb, but succumb they will. The Slaugth though, may just flee the Galaxy once they see the writing on the wall.

All this adds up to a silent galaxy, little more than a cosmic mausoleum, a wordless marker of a once violently vibrant section of space now devoid of even the most primitive forms of life. The eternal war will finally be over, as no one is left to fight it, everyone either having died or fled to greener pastures. This is the only way to bring peace and order to the galaxy, by ending all that is capable of war and chaos.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1. Everything in the passages for individual factions is, in fact, official canon. You won't find anything contradicting canon in the army entries.

Yeah, you pretty much will, as it goes. The fact that they're all official canon is why your supporting quote is invalidated. It's like trying to argue that your brand new iphone seven is the best in the room... while everybody else is too busy to listen to you because they're all playing with... their brand new iphone sevens. It's a token "doomsday" blurb designed to highlight how badass and grimdark the army is. Everybody has one.

2. Let's say two people are debating, and one person says "I'm right because I'm smarter than you." The other person accuses him of the use of ad hominem attacks. He responds "But I am smarter than you."
That's what you just did.

Unfortunately, that's A) not what's happened and B) still not ad hominem.

Also, just because I don't agree with your points doesn't mean I can't understand them.

Yet you seem determined not to.

If you want to decide who wins make a poll.

 necronuser wrote:
If you want to decide who wins make a poll.

It's not about who wins to me, I love the idea of a changed setting in 40k. It bugs me when someone is appearing to be TFG and has nothing else to say other than a few sentences when 40k has developed hundreds of stories. He basically takes propaganda to persuade new players to enjoy the army and spouts it like it's 100% indisputable.

It's like talking to a well informed christian about the existence of other gods. It seems logically possible to have a discussion... then well you get this.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1. Everything in the passages for individual factions is, in fact, official canon. You won't find anything contradicting canon in the army entries.

Yeah, you pretty much will, as it goes. The fact that they're all official canon is why your supporting quote is invalidated. It's like trying to argue that your brand new iphone seven is the best in the room... while everybody else is too busy to listen to you because they're all playing with... their brand new iphone sevens. It's a token "doomsday" blurb designed to highlight how badass and grimdark the army is. Everybody has one.

Not every army has canon-contradicting boasts in its sections. That statement is simply untrue. I hereby challenge you to find a canon-contradicting boast in any of the other army pages.
Also, can we drop the ad hominem attack debate? In this context, the definition of an ad hominem attack is essentially subjective.

Necrons have already purged the galaxy once of life so I'm pretty sure they could do it again.

 Dumah12 wrote:
Necrons have already purged the galaxy once of life so I'm pretty sure they could do it again.

Of course they didn't have to contend with Chaos Gods at the time.


And right now they arn't interested in purging the Galaxy of life. They are looking for a suitable host race for biotransference.

The chaos gods are a valid point but necrons fought the old ones, and a lot of necron technology is anti warp based. For instance cadia is not a torrent of warp energies because of necron constructs on the surface. Would I agree that necrons are not the only victor in the universe, yes, but necrons have no precense in the warp and therefore feed no power to the choas gods. Not all necrons are looking to return to bodies of flesh. That is the silent king's main goal and if he were to return I would say that would become a substantial goal of the necrons as a whole.

There is also the void dragon and if pretty much anyone were to awaken him and side with him everybody who uses machines (aka everybody but chaos to an extent) would be fethed and basically back to Stone Age tech.

IMO though it depends on what happens to the emperor on really what happens. If he dies and is reborn a new age for the imperium. If he dies and goes into the warp to fight the chaos gods well for the past 10000 years he has had billions of souls sacrificed to him he basically gak stomps everyone. Now when this happens there is a good chance that terra will die, mostly because not only is he projecting the astonomican through out the galaxy but he is also holding the powers of the warp from flooding through the failed webway gate he tried to build. So there is a good chance that the imperium will be the first out.

As for other races. Tau probably gonna die, why they are simply to small to handle a fight with everybody else. Orks if united can do a lot but will probably get killed in the end by choas or tyranids or necrons. Tyranids depends on how much still remains to get to the galaxy but if a single c'tan(the deceiver) can cause them to steer clear of him and single tomb worlds remain untouched in the path of hive fleets they fethed. Eldar they are already dying, dark eldar will probably die to because if chaos finds a way into the webway Slanesh will rape them literally and metaphorically.

As for the powers of chaos they would have to not kill everybody and enslave a lot of stuff to keep from losing power. In the end Slanesh will be the weakest, mostly because the top contenders either don't get it on or are not sadists. If things stop dying aka necrons and tyranids, (do they die? They kind of just get recycled and reused. They have no souls and are more just extensions of the hive mind imo) nurgle will decrease in power
But khorne and tzeentch will grow substantially in power, since gak keeps changing and there is a lot of war going on.

So I think Necrons and depending on how the warp powers play it could come out on top. Imperium very slim chance but there. Everybody else dead, or slaves.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

Not every army has canon-contradicting boasts in its sections. That statement is simply untrue. I hereby challenge you to find a canon-contradicting boast in any of the other army pages.

Firstly, that wasn't my statement so you can stop putting words into my mouth (keyboard?), and secondly what I have said has already been proven to a satisfactory level by contributions made by Big Mek Wurrzog. It's a simple fact that most armies have those token "we have/can/will conquer the galaxy one day..." type entries in their fluff. It's laughably trivial for you to try and argue otherwise at this point, but I have a strange feeling you're going to keep going anyway... oh well.

Also, can we drop the ad hominem attack debate?

Seeing as it was you who tried and failed to drag it into the debate in the first place; gladly.

In this context, the definition of an ad hominem attack is essentially subjective.

Now here's a statement which is simply untrue.

 Dumah12 wrote:
The chaos gods are a valid point but necrons fought the old ones, and a lot of necron technology is anti warp based. For instance cadia is not a torrent of warp energies because of necron constructs on the surface. Would I agree that necrons are not the only victor in the universe, yes, but necrons have no precense in the warp and therefore feed no power to the choas gods. Not all necrons are looking to return to bodies of flesh. That is the silent king's main goal and if he were to return I would say that would become a substantial goal of the necrons as a whole.

There is also the void dragon and if pretty much anyone were to awaken him and side with him everybody who uses machines (aka everybody but chaos to an extent) would be fethed and basically back to Stone Age tech.

IMO though it depends on what happens to the emperor on really what happens. If he dies and is reborn a new age for the imperium. If he dies and goes into the warp to fight the chaos gods well for the past 10000 years he has had billions of souls sacrificed to him he basically gak stomps everyone. Now when this happens there is a good chance that terra will die, mostly because not only is he projecting the astonomican through out the galaxy but he is also holding the powers of the warp from flooding through the failed webway gate he tried to build. So there is a good chance that the imperium will be the first out.

As for other races. Tau probably gonna die, why they are simply to small to handle a fight with everybody else. Orks if united can do a lot but will probably get killed in the end by choas or tyranids or necrons. Tyranids depends on how much still remains to get to the galaxy but if a single c'tan(the deceiver) can cause them to steer clear of him and single tomb worlds remain untouched in the path of hive fleets they fethed. Eldar they are already dying, dark eldar will probably die to because if chaos finds a way into the webway Slanesh will rape them literally and metaphorically.

As for the powers of chaos they would have to not kill everybody and enslave a lot of stuff to keep from losing power. In the end Slanesh will be the weakest, mostly because the top contenders either don't get it on or are not sadists. If things stop dying aka necrons and tyranids, (do they die? They kind of just get recycled and reused. They have no souls and are more just extensions of the hive mind imo) nurgle will decrease in power
But khorne and tzeentch will grow substantially in power, since gak keeps changing and there is a lot of war going on.

So I think Necrons and depending on how the warp powers play it could come out on top. Imperium very slim chance but there. Everybody else dead, or slaves.

At long last someone provides a compelling argument

Not sure anti-warp was needed to face chaos considering the true problem here isn't the destruction of chaos but rather than fact the Necrons are now susceptible to chaos' influence and diversionary powers. As oppose to the old codex where Necrons had nearly no mind to speak of at all they now have been given rich personalities with goals and motivations. This means just like demon invest machine spirits of the IOM or chaos infested titans ect the necrons are capable of being turned to the side of chaos now.

Void Dragon, according to new edition fluff the C'tan are no longer the allies of the Necron due to their deceit and shattering the c'tan into shards which they could then force into submission. In the Codex iirc the necron lords are very worried about the C'tan and take even rumors of them seriously since they do not have they all accounted for. Dragon may have dominance over machines but he was bested by even the Emperor and it was the idea of the last codex that he was restrained on Mars. Many stories were established to state that the necron even set foot on Mars with nearly no detection, while they didn't make it much farther than setting in on foot it worried the crap out of the Adetpus Mechanicus.

C'tan Outsider is theorized to be the overmind to the nids after it went made from consuming too many of it's fellow c'tan. Nightbringer ordered it's exile outside their dominion (the galaxy) so it stands to chance that Dragon would have 0 impact on the Nid's oganic based army. Infact Nids could conceivably have an edge over them tactically speaking since it would stand to chance the necron Empire wouldn't realize in a final showdown that this ravenous hivemind is actually a c'tan. I don't like this story but it always had a certain charm to me

Supposedly the Emperor has way too much uncertainty around him, a true wildcard with nearly the fate of billions of billions of souls which could be sacrificed simply from his abscence. I am a fan of one of his primarch sons returns in the midst of an epic battle and replaces the emperor on the golden throne.But it also stands to chance in 2,000 years he is still going to be in the exact same place/condition.

Necrons didn't exterminate all life in the galaxy in the codex but they certainly came close enough until the Old Ones fought back with the eldar and possibly theroized the Orks which were gifted with plentiful lives or nearly immortal ones which was according to the old codex the very reason the necrons sold their souls to the c'tan in the first place which was to no longer struggle to survive and show how well they had learned of death to all races especially the old ones.

I commend you for bringing actual subject matter into the thread, I've personally had enough baseless declarations for the rest of the month

 Anfauglir wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

Not every army has canon-contradicting boasts in its sections. That statement is simply untrue. I hereby challenge you to find a canon-contradicting boast in any of the other army pages.

Firstly, that wasn't my statement so you can stop putting words into my mouth (keyboard?), and secondly what I have said has already been proven to a satisfactory level by contributions made by Big Mek Wurrzog. It's a simple fact that most armies have those token "we have/can/will conquer the galaxy one day..." type entries in their fluff. It's laughably trivial for you to try and argue otherwise at this point, but I have a strange feeling you're going to keep going anyway... oh well.

Again... If there are so many of these, please give an example. And that "Apocalyptic Ork Rising" one doesn't count because that actually isn't contradictory to established fluff. Niether does that "Everyone fears Chaos" one because that was just a small slight on the part of the writers, not a blatant violation of official fluff.
Now that I think of it... What fluff does that statement about the Necrons violate? Seems to me like you've confused official fluff with your own potentially faulty logic.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Dumah12 wrote:
Necrons have already purged the galaxy once of life so I'm pretty sure they could do it again.

Of course they didn't have to contend with Chaos Gods at the time.


And right now they arn't interested in purging the Galaxy of life. They are looking for a suitable host race for biotransference.

Chaos has no unity and has the collective attention span of a two year old with ADHD high on crack. They're really rather irrelevant on the grand scheme of things, as every time Chaos marshalls out in force, the assault ends up losing momentum quickly as Abaddon loses the attention of his subordinates who all go off to do their own thing and splatter like bugs on the wind shield due to their inferior numbers, military-industrial capacity, and generally really quite poor tactics. The Chaos Space marines and their hangers on would realistically crumble far more easily than the Imperium. If Abaddon bites the dust or a serious challenger to his title arises, the traitor legions are going to more or less destroy each other in the ensuing civil war. And all the Daemons of Chaos are more or less worthless if they can't be summoned on account of their followers having obliterated themselves in a civil war that accomplished little save for one guy getting to slap a title onto his name.

Really, the mortal followers of Chaos have all the weaknesses of the Orks without even getting to have their sheer weight of numbers. Ultimately, it's going to come down to the Orks, Necrons, and Tyranids. And unless the necrons and orks have something up their sleeve that can stop a race whose numbers are bloated by having stripped dozens of galaxies for every last scrap of usable matter, the Tyranids are going to strip the galaxy of all life, from the mightiest Orkeosaurus down to tiniest virus, leaving an utterly silent void. The necrons will likely survive if enough decide to hunker down and let the Tyranids pass. And one the storm passes through, they're probably going to decide to pack up and leave the Milky way to find bodies to engage in biotransferrance with.

Not sure anti-warp was needed to face chaos considering the true problem here isn't the destruction of chaos but rather than fact the Necrons are now susceptible to chaos' influence and diversionary powers. As oppose to the old codex where Necrons had nearly no mind to speak of at all they now have been given rich personalities with goals and motivations. This means just like demon invest machine spirits of the IOM or chaos infested titans ect the necrons are capable of being turned to the side of chaos now.

There is nothing, I repeat, Nothing to indicate that Necrons are sucepitable to chaos. They still do not have souls, or any connection to the warp.

Void Dragon, according to new edition fluff the C'tan are no longer the allies of the Necron due to their deceit and shattering the c'tan into shards which they could then force into submission. In the Codex iirc the necron lords are very worried about the C'tan and take even rumors of them seriously since they do not have they all accounted for. Dragon may have dominance over machines but he was bested by even the Emperor and it was the idea of the last codex that he was restrained on Mars. Many stories were established to state that the necron even set foot on Mars with nearly no detection, while they didn't make it much farther than setting in on foot it worried the crap out of the Adetpus Mechanicus.

Yes, all of the C'tan have been sharded now, but the Necrons can call out the Shards in battle, but there are still some unaccounted for. Their power varies though, as the Shard of the Void Dragon was enough to nearly defeat the Emperor.

C'tan Outsider is theorized to be the overmind to the nids after it went made from consuming too many of it's fellow c'tan. Nightbringer ordered it's exile outside their dominion (the galaxy) so it stands to chance that Dragon would have 0 impact on the Nid's oganic based army. Infact Nids could conceivably have an edge over them tactically speaking since it would stand to chance the necron Empire wouldn't realize in a final showdown that this ravenous hivemind is actually a c'tan. I don't like this story but it always had a certain charm to me

There is nothing to support this at all. The Nightbringer Ordering its' exile? Do you have a source for that? I've never heard of such a thing. It woulden't be cannon anymore anyway, since all of the C'tan have been shattered.

Necrons didn't exterminate all life in the galaxy in the codex but they certainly came close enough until the Old Ones fought back with the eldar and possibly theroized the Orks which were gifted with plentiful lives or nearly immortal ones which was according to the old codex the very reason the necrons sold their souls to the c'tan in the first place which was to no longer struggle to survive and show how well they had learned of death to all races especially the old ones.

I think you need to reread the Necron Codexs, because this is pretty inaccurate. The Necrons ruled the Galaxy, before they began their war with the Old ones, they were not exterminating life. They used the Old ones as a common foe to unite the fracturing empire. After getting trounced thanks to the Old ones maneuverability, they took a deal with the C'tan, and starting stomping them. The Old ones created the Eldar, the Orks, and a host of other races in a attempt to stop the Necrons, but to no avail.

I commend you for bringing actual subject matter into the thread, I've personally had enough baseless declarations for the rest of the month

I think you should really get your facts right, before you call out other people on baseless declarations.

There is nothing, I repeat, Nothing to indicate that Necrons are sucepitable to chaos. They still do not have souls, or any connection to the warp.

Technically speaking, Many inanimate things are possessed by Chaos, buildings, streets, weaponry and even simple trinkets and corpses. The necrons have no stated defense just a lack of proper souls as unlikely as it sounds i am not convinced chaos couldn't ruin necron temples and idols.

Void Dragon, according to new edition fluff the C'tan are no longer the allies of the Necron due to their deceit and shattering the c'tan into shards which they could then force into submission. In the Codex iirc the necron lords are very worried about the C'tan and take even rumors of them seriously since they do not have they all accounted for. Dragon may have dominance over machines but he was bested by even the Emperor and it was the idea of the last codex that he was restrained on Mars. Many stories were established to state that the necron even set foot on Mars with nearly no detection, while they didn't make it much farther than setting in on foot it worried the crap out of the Adetpus Mechanicus.

See... i really hate this, the old Codex made a c'tan make more sense to me; Gods pure and simple. Now it is shattered fragments of gods under the control of the Necron whatever. Anyway if it was a simple shard (which makes little sense since a single grey knight can kill the nightbringer shards if i am not mistaken. In the old fluff these were far more powerful and exacting now they are just trygons.

There is nothing to support this at all. The Nightbringer Ordering its' exile? Do you have a source for that? I've never heard of such a thing. It woulden't be cannon anymore anyway, since all of the C'tan have been shattered.

I re-read the entry, it talks about the Laughing god (which i confused for the deceiver since it was 10 years ago i read the codex) it is on page 25 of 4th ed codex under "The outsider" and it tells the origins of a C'tan who has become addicted to devouring it;s kind due to a cunning trick by the laughing god of the Eldar for lawls. I thought i read the part about nightbringer but seems I was mistaken, regardless the theory was still a sound one which was that this C'tan isn't accounted for and it did leave the galaxy (take whatever version of the fluff you like) And this being now hates the eldar. It sums up the desires of the nids well now "total erradication + impulse to eat"

I think you need to reread the Necron Codexs, because this is pretty inaccurate. The Necrons ruled the Galaxy, before they began their war with the Old ones, they were not exterminating life. They used the Old ones as a common foe to unite the fracturing empire. After getting trounced thanks to the Old ones maneuverability, they took a deal with the C'tan, and starting stomping them. The Old ones created the Eldar, the Orks, and a host of other races in a attempt to stop the Necrons, but to no avail.

I speak of the origins of th Necrotyr, 4th ed codex pg 24 under the Necrotyr. " as the Old Ones Spread across the Galaxy younger, fiercer races struggled in their wake. The Necrotyr were such a race, born under a fearsome, scourging star... their lives were short and uncertain , their bodies blighted and consumed by the searing caress of their cruel star. They were a mercurial, morbid folk ..."

You are reading the re-boot which i refuse to waste my time with, the fluff of necrons was amazing in 4th this new one was stupid as hell...

I think you should really get your facts right, before you call out other people on baseless declarations.

I try to every time Sasori, and i stand by the statements i made 1 honest mistake in dozens of statements is acceptable to me. the rest is mere conjecture that such things can't take place. Ultimately i am quoted retconned GW info which honestly fit just fine before mr. Ward took a bat to it. though these facts might not be accurate any longer they are in essence mostly unchanged and even these errors did not change a 2 sentence defense for wiping all life now and days.

Technically speaking, Many inanimate things are possessed by Chaos, buildings, streets, weaponry and even simple trinkets and corpses. The necrons have no stated defense just a lack of proper souls as unlikely as it sounds i am not convinced chaos couldn't ruin necron temples and idols.

There has been nothing shown in the fluff so far, that Chaos has any influence on the Necrons.

See... i really hate this, the old Codex made a c'tan make more sense to me; Gods pure and simple. Now it is shattered fragments of gods under the control of the Necron whatever. Anyway if it was a simple shard (which makes little sense since a single grey knight can kill the nightbringer shards if i am not mistaken. In the old fluff these were far more powerful and exacting now they are just trygons.

The True power of the C'tan coulden't be reasonably represented on the tabletop at all. It makes sense that they choose to go with the sharding. It lets you use the models, fits with the fluff, and allows for some customization. Having a true Star God go down in one round thanks to hellfire from Sternguard, is a lot worse in my opinion, than having a shard meet the same fate

I re-read the entry, it talks about the Laughing god (which i confused for the deceiver since it was 10 years ago i read the codex) it is on page 25 of 4th ed codex under "The outsider" and it tells the origins of a C'tan who has become addicted to devouring it;s kind due to a cunning trick by the laughing god of the Eldar for lawls. I thought i read the part about nightbringer but seems I was mistaken, regardless the theory was still a sound one which was that this C'tan isn't accounted for and it did leave the galaxy (take whatever version of the fluff you like) And this being now hates the eldar. It sums up the desires of the nids well now "total erradication + impulse to eat"

You have to take the new fluff into account, you can't just pick which version you like. The new fluff is what is cannon. You can take bits of the old fluff, which still exist, as long as it doesn't conflict with anything in the new fluff.

I speak of the origins of th Necrotyr, 4th ed codex pg 24 under the Necrotyr. " as the Old Ones Spread across the Galaxy younger, fiercer races struggled in their wake. The Necrotyr were such a race, born under a fearsome, scourging star... their lives were short and uncertain , their bodies blighted and consumed by the searing caress of their cruel star. They were a mercurial, morbid folk ..."

You are reading the re-boot which i refuse to waste my time with, the fluff of necrons was amazing in 4th this new one was stupid as hell...

Regardless on opinion of the new fluff, it is what is cannon, for all purposes in the background section it takes precedence. If you refuse to waste your time on what the new cannon fluff is, it's going to be impossible to have a reasonable debate on background.

I try to every time Sasori, and i stand by the statements i made 1 honest mistake in dozens of statements is acceptable to me. the rest is mere conjecture that such things can't take place. Ultimately i am quoted retconned GW info which honestly fit just fine before mr. Ward took a bat to it. though these facts might not be accurate any longer they are in essence mostly unchanged and even these errors did not change a 2 sentence defense for wiping all life now and days.

A significant amount has changed in the new codex, there is no feasible way than any observation can say that they haven't. As I mentioned earlier, it's hard to have a reasonable discussion, when some individuals are using out of date information.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

Again... If there are so many of these, please give an example. And that "Apocalyptic Ork Rising" one doesn't count because that actually isn't contradictory to established fluff. Niether does that "Everyone fears Chaos" one because that was just a small slight on the part of the writers, not a blatant violation of official fluff.
Now that I think of it... What fluff does that statement about the Necrons violate? Seems to me like you've confused official fluff with your own potentially faulty logic.

Okay, you've spun completly off course now into a tangent on "violation" and "contradictory" fluff statements which I only said can be found in GW's material as an aside at best - not as a central component to my argument. You need to let it go and come back into the realm of relevance. My debate with you has never been about contradictory or violating statements in the fluff, therefore the evidence put forth by Big Mek not counting because it's not contradictory makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in the context of the point both he and I are making with it. You're on your own with this one, so I recommend you take a step back and remember what it is we are actually talking about.

Now, getting back on course with the context of our actual debate... your response is as trivial as I predicted. So, to sum up your latest position: "when I take a quote from a faction's doomsday blurb it totally and fully supports my argument that that faction is the strongest and is going to win and is an undeniable fact. However, when you (or more specifically Big Mek, in this instance) take a similar quote from a different faction(s)... it "doesn't count" because of my shoehorned tangent, or it was a "writing boo-boo" made by the publishers, and of course, I know better than they do."

I think that about sums it up, no?

Hmm. Okay then.

WARHAMMER 42,000
The Emperor awakens in the material realm on the golden throne in a weakened state. Can't actually move but manages to speak to his custodes. His awakening gutters out the astronomican. This stops Imperial interstellar movement almost completely, and stops the Tyranid expansion as well.
Some traitor legions flee the Chaos cause forsaking their powers, others cling more tightly. Word Bearers see his awakening as his true ascension to godhood and decide to repent, the Ruinous Powers turn all of them into warp spawn. All of the "where are they now" primarchs show up throughout the galaxy, slicing up xenos and traitors alike.
As the emperor regains his strength he has the Ecclesiarchy blacklisted and sends Russ after them, pissed that they have come to power in the first place. Titan begins fall, and to gain time for them to figure out a course of action they move Titan back into the warp. Subsequently all of their tesseract daemon prisons are opened. Titan reappears five years earlier in the eye of terror as a daemon world (time works differently in the warp, yo). The Eldar were informed of this psychically and were waiting there in massed numbers and managed to destroy it minutes after it appeared.
Thanks folks. Imperial Guard, seeing no more use for the Eldar, begin firing on craftworlds near the cadian gate. War breaks out. This draws orks (via wierdboyz). The orks manage to slaughter the Eldar and take over Cadia.
Few astartes respond to this threat. Most of them are busy making headway against the tyranid hive fleets and taking back worlds, or destroying them. Whatever. Same thing. The renewed Ruinous Powers re-emerge from the eye of terror and daemons and traitors fight alongside the orks. Turns out they're chaos incarnate. Everyone is surprised by this for some reason.
The Dark Eldar raid these battlefields and do what they do best. With the rise in Slaanesh's power they need even more pain to survive, and a large number of cults and kabals have turned to Slaanesh completely.
Commorragh becomes more fractured as Slaanesh takes over a large part of it completely.
The Tau begin offering aid, to those worlds that will take it.
The emperor grows in physical power every day, and his psychic power grows again as well. He and the custodes leave terra for mars, round up the Adeptus Mechanicus, and make their way for the Eye of Terror.
A bunch of cool new sculpts are made of all of the existing models. A bunch of hardcover IA books and codices are written.
Everything is too expensive.
No one is happy.
All of the models are finecast.
THE END

P.S. Necrons wait and see what happens, and then spam flyers. Necrons win.

But WAIT what about Forgeworld stuff? Surely it is not Finecast?

I'm waiting for the extended cut edition...

The Deceiver made even Space Marines turn against each other, letting the empire destroy itself from the inside. While the Orks were about to rise from all the loot, Necrons used their technology to take control of the tyranids in order to turn them against the Orks along with their own forces, getting rid of every ork there ever was, without a chance to futher reproduce due to any form of life being either consumed or destroyed. Tyranids were then made to turn into cannibalism and Necrons only genocided the pitiful remains. Then, the Necrons now having destroyed every spark of life in the galaxy, finally go to sleep...permanently. A last green thunderstorm and the deceiver smiles. The Nightbringer sees his very time to have come and battles the deceiver in an epic fight, finally triumphing over his former borther. He then uses his absolute power to cut the universe and the contiuum of space and time apart, destroying everything there ever was and ever will be.

THE END.

GAME OVER.

OK, disclaimer first - we all know that so long as it's supporting the game the fluff isn't likely to change too much, and realistically we're never going to see one faction take over the galaxy and 'win'. Actually, we're more likely to see another faction enter the equation (to let GW sell more models) - new Chaos God anybody? That aside, it can be fun to think about how things could change, so here's my bit (based on the fact that I think the Imperium is not getting much love in this thread).

The Emperor finally dies. Turns out he got it all wrong; he was trying to save humanity from the warp as more and more human psykers were born, but turns out all he did was make the race stagnate for 10K years. Without him keeping things in check (and nomming thousands of psykers every day) there are suddenly millions of more rogue psykers in the galaxy. Most of these are corrupted by Chaos but those that are left are increasingly powerful and immune to the corrupting effect of the warp (thanks Darwin). Humanity finally evolves, and after a brief dark age emerges as a new crusade led by super powerful psykers who are immune to the warp and enough of a force to give Chaos, 'Nids, 'Crons and all the rest a run for their money...

 sierra 1247 wrote:

and draigo gets killed by a grot

THIS I'd love to see.

Tyranids eat everything before becoming locked in an infinate war with daemons.