How do you feel about Star Wars?

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**Lord Scythican**

streamdragon wrote:I do recall the Mando episodes being a major issue for people, especially fans of the Travis clone/mando stuff. I didn't have an issue with them, myself, other than being a bit bland.

Not to mention Travis is a hack... (andthenbobafetttakesthestuffandnowislikeimmortaland*sploosh*)

Ugh... just ugh...

Maybe I just watched the really bad episodes?

The thing about the New Mandalorians is that they just didn't sit right with me. Here you have the Mandalorians on a planet who are very warlike and have waged war on the entire galaxy. They are kicked off of their planet by New Mandalorians who are pacifists. How exactly does that work? Then these supposed pacifists get the Jedi to help them get rid of other warlike Mandalorians. That seems to go against the Jedi Code as well as being a pacifist. We don't believe in fighting but we sure as hell will get keepers of the peace to do the fighting for us.

Can you recommend any good episodes or series of episodes?

Also that Black Lightsaber was cool, but it seemed odd that a Mandalorian used it. Was he trained in the Jedi arts? I always remember lightsabers being extremely hard for a non jedi/sith/force user to use. For one Obi-wan should have beat the guy pretty bad just by using the force power of lightsaber combat, something a non force using Mandalorian would have a hard time parrying against.

**nomsheep**

I love the films, and a few of the games. I have access to 30/40 books and some cartoons/series but I don't know whether I can be bothered with them.

nom

**Azza007**

I know some will despair upon reading this but I liked the latest 3 films. I don't see them as Star Wars prequels just different films based in the same setting.

I also would like to see the Force Unleashed games made into films, but that is just me.

**Goliath**

Lord Scythican wrote:
streamdragon wrote:I do recall the Mando episodes being a major issue for people, especially fans of the Travis clone/mando stuff. I didn't have an issue with them, myself, other than being a bit bland.

Not to mention Travis is a hack... (andthenbobafetttakesthestuffandnowislikeimmortaland*sploosh*)

Ugh... just ugh...

Maybe I just watched the really bad episodes?

The thing about the New Mandalorians is that they just didn't sit right with me. Here you have the Mandalorians on a planet who are very warlike and have waged war on the entire galaxy. They are kicked off of their planet by New Mandalorians who are pacifists. How exactly does that work? Then these supposed pacifists get the Jedi to help them get rid of other warlike Mandalorians. That seems to go against the Jedi Code as well as being a pacifist. We don't believe in fighting but we sure as hell will get keepers of the peace to do the fighting for us.

Can you recommend any good episodes or series of episodes?

Also that Black Lightsaber was cool, but it seemed odd that a Mandalorian used it. Was he trained in the Jedi arts? I always remember lightsabers being extremely hard for a non jedi/sith/force user to use. For one Obi-wan should have beat the guy pretty bad just by using the force power of lightsaber combat, something a non force using Mandalorian would have a hard time parrying against.

Someone has already mentioned the Malevolence series of episodes, which I'll agree with, another set that I quite like is the three that begin with "Death Trap" which has some quite cool appearances from characters that were first introduced in the original trilogy.

**Kanluwen**

Lord Scythican wrote:
streamdragon wrote:I do recall the Mando episodes being a major issue for people, especially fans of the Travis clone/mando stuff. I didn't have an issue with them, myself, other than being a bit bland.

Not to mention Travis is a hack... (andthenbobafetttakesthestuffandnowislikeimmortaland*sploosh*)

Ugh... just ugh...

Maybe I just watched the really bad episodes?

The thing about the New Mandalorians is that they just didn't sit right with me. Here you have the Mandalorians on a planet who are very warlike and have waged war on the entire galaxy. They are kicked off of their planet by New Mandalorians who are pacifists. How exactly does that work? Then these supposed pacifists get the Jedi to help them get rid of other warlike Mandalorians. That seems to go against the Jedi Code as well as being a pacifist. We don't believe in fighting but we sure as hell will get keepers of the peace to do the fighting for us.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here...

The ones who were "kicked off" were not Mandalorians, per the Mandalorians' own views of their culture.

They were what was called "The Death Watch".
The Death Watch was, for all intents and purposes, a subsect of the Mandalorian culture which emphasized a "Mandalorians first and only" mindset. They believed it was their right to run the galaxy, and had no real rules outside of that idea.

**Lord Scythican**

Kanluwen wrote:
Lord Scythican wrote:
streamdragon wrote:I do recall the Mando episodes being a major issue for people, especially fans of the Travis clone/mando stuff. I didn't have an issue with them, myself, other than being a bit bland.

Not to mention Travis is a hack... (andthenbobafetttakesthestuffandnowislikeimmortaland*sploosh*)

Ugh... just ugh...

Maybe I just watched the really bad episodes?

The thing about the New Mandalorians is that they just didn't sit right with me. Here you have the Mandalorians on a planet who are very warlike and have waged war on the entire galaxy. They are kicked off of their planet by New Mandalorians who are pacifists. How exactly does that work? Then these supposed pacifists get the Jedi to help them get rid of other warlike Mandalorians. That seems to go against the Jedi Code as well as being a pacifist. We don't believe in fighting but we sure as hell will get keepers of the peace to do the fighting for us.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here...

The ones who were "kicked off" were not Mandalorians, per the Mandalorians' own views of their culture.

They were what was called "The Death Watch".
The Death Watch was, for all intents and purposes, a subsect of the Mandalorian culture which emphasized a "Mandalorians first and only" mindset. They believed it was their right to run the galaxy, and had no real rules outside of that idea.

Fair enough, but how do pacifists kick them off the planet? Did they ask them nicely to leave?

I remember Death Watch from back in the day. They always seemed like an extremist version of the ones like Jango. Still more Mandalorian than those New Mandalorians.

**Daemonhammer**

Manchu wrote:From a toddler to a teenager, I loved Star Wars. I watched the movies continuously, played as many of the video games (usually on friends' consoles or computers) as I could, hunted for the original toys at flea markets, read all the old novels (like, Splinter of the Mind's Eye old), ate up Tim Zahn's books and most of what followed that, etc, etc, etc. An aunt of mine bought me the Star Wars edition of trivial pursuit and no one would play with me after the first game -- "how do you freaking know how many Storm Troopers got shot in that scene???"

And then Phantom Menace came out. I remember being in shock. "It was good ... right, guys? Guys?" And then Attack of the Clones ... it was just indefensible. Luckily, Knights of the Old Republic and Tartakovsky's Clone Wars restored some of my wide-eyed faith in the franchise. And Revenge of the Sith was ... if I say better than the first two prequels combined, I guess that isn't saying much. But even RotS being ... okay compared to JarJar and "your skin is softer than sand, Padme" wasn't enough.

By the time I realized the ship was sinking for me, I was up to my neck. I think the precise moment I realized it was halfway through the first season of the CGI Clone Wars. It just sort of popped into my head that I hadn't really been interested in the show from the start. I was just watching out of obligation and an unconscious hope that Star Wars might be good again. Nowadays, I see Star Wars stuff and it's just like "oh, George must want to put in a new pool on the ranch." I know it's not all crap and I know that other people are still really into it.

But I feel like Stan in that episode of South Park where he looks around and sees gak everywhere. I see a Darth Vader t-shirt and it looks like someone smeared gak on cotton. I see Star Wars Lego sets and it just looks like a pile of gak sprinkled what must have been very painful sharp-corned plastic bricks. Don't even get me started on the latest MMO. They say free to pay and all I can think of is why did anyway pay to rub this gak in their eyes in the first place.

Enter FFG. FFG is a company that doesn't always knock it out of the park but they do their dammedest from release to release. And now they have the Star Wars license. For the first time in years, Star Wars merchandise is looking a little appealing to me. When I see their new X-Wing miniatures, I'm not just seeing a turd impaled on a clear toothpick which is turn glued to a cheap plastic square. It's looking like a badass fighter plane from the future which is somehow also the past ... like in the old days. Before the dark times. Before the Empire.

But this little light of mine is fragile. It's like a match in a hurricane. I gotta be careful with this one. And I hope FFG is trying to be careful. I wonder if they feel the pressure of all the schlock Star Wars has gone through as it's been wrung for every red cent over the last decade or so especially. And I wonder what the rest of you guys think. Are you a diehard fan who never lost faith? Do you not remember a time before the prequels? What do you think about this monumental property and all the ups and downs its been through?

I feel very similar but where i am now Star Wars is something people laugh at :(

**chromedog**

As to "only force trained" being able to use lightsabres.

They are a sword. ANY shmoe can use it.

ONLY someone who has trained for years will be able to use it like a jedi/sith.

Same for building one. Anyone with the technical skills and access to the parts should be able to do it (it's getting the crystals that's the hard bit).
It's just that jedi/sith don't use tools to do the putting-together-of-them, but they manipulate the bits with "majik".

**Kanluwen**

Lord Scythican wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Lord Scythican wrote:
streamdragon wrote:I do recall the Mando episodes being a major issue for people, especially fans of the Travis clone/mando stuff. I didn't have an issue with them, myself, other than being a bit bland.

Not to mention Travis is a hack... (andthenbobafetttakesthestuffandnowislikeimmortaland*sploosh*)

Ugh... just ugh...

Maybe I just watched the really bad episodes?

The thing about the New Mandalorians is that they just didn't sit right with me. Here you have the Mandalorians on a planet who are very warlike and have waged war on the entire galaxy. They are kicked off of their planet by New Mandalorians who are pacifists. How exactly does that work? Then these supposed pacifists get the Jedi to help them get rid of other warlike Mandalorians. That seems to go against the Jedi Code as well as being a pacifist. We don't believe in fighting but we sure as hell will get keepers of the peace to do the fighting for us.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here...

The ones who were "kicked off" were not Mandalorians, per the Mandalorians' own views of their culture.

They were what was called "The Death Watch".
The Death Watch was, for all intents and purposes, a subsect of the Mandalorian culture which emphasized a "Mandalorians first and only" mindset. They believed it was their right to run the galaxy, and had no real rules outside of that idea.

Fair enough, but how do pacifists kick them off the planet? Did they ask them nicely to leave?

I remember Death Watch from back in the day. They always seemed like an extremist version of the ones like Jango. Still more Mandalorian than those New Mandalorians.

Pacifist doesn't mean you are unable to fight.

It means you choose not to.

**streamdragon**

Lord Scythican wrote:
Maybe I just watched the really bad episodes?

The thing about the New Mandalorians is that they just didn't sit right with me. Here you have the Mandalorians on a planet who are very warlike and have waged war on the entire galaxy. They are kicked off of their planet by New Mandalorians who are pacifists. How exactly does that work? Then these supposed pacifists get the Jedi to help them get rid of other warlike Mandalorians. That seems to go against the Jedi Code as well as being a pacifist. We don't believe in fighting but we sure as hell will get keepers of the peace to do the fighting for us.

Can you recommend any good episodes or series of episodes?

Also that Black Lightsaber was cool, but it seemed odd that a Mandalorian used it. Was he trained in the Jedi arts? I always remember lightsabers being extremely hard for a non jedi/sith/force user to use. For one Obi-wan should have beat the guy pretty bad just by using the force power of lightsaber combat, something a non force using Mandalorian would have a hard time parrying against.

Well, the Mandalorians aren't so much pacifists, as they wanted to stay out the war between the republic and the confederates. The Deathwatch wanted Manadalore to take some major place in the galactic world that the ruling party just didn't want; they became a terrorist group essentially. Attacking their own people to get the ruling group out, which is why the Jedi were willing to step in. I believe the dude with the black sabre mentions taking it off a dead jedi. Anyone can use a lightsaber, it's just a special sort of sword after all. Grievous uses 4 and he's not even force sensitive.

One fantastic series of episodes doesn't actually follow the Jedi. "Rookies", "Clone Cadets", and "Arc Troopers (I think)" follow a group of Clones and are just amazingly well done.

**Kanluwen**

Pre Vizsla mentioned that his ancestors had "stolen the Darksaber from the Jedi Temple on Coruscant" during the fall of the Old Republic.

He then went on to say that it had been a "long time" since the Darksaber had killed a Jedi, and that he was going to rectify that or some such.

**Bromsy**

Lynata wrote:
Bromsy wrote:
Goliath wrote:
Bromsy wrote:There is one good side to the prequels. Finding people who defend them, sitting them down, and forcing them to watch the Red Letter Media reviews, which spell out in exacting detail how bad the movies are. Then asking them to repeat their arguments.
"badness" is objective. Sure you can force someone to watch those videos, but that doesn't mean that they stop liking the films, it just means that you're being a dick and trying to ruin their fun.
No. That doesn't make me a dick, it makes me a crusader for good and justice. Letting people be stupid and wrong is not the right path. I choose the difficult road of trying to help people rather than let them wallow in ignorance and sin.
RLM *likes* the horrible Star Trek remake, which to me automatically disqualifies him as a source of valuable opinions on movies.

Goliath wrote:
The very fact that you seem to think that because someone likes something that you don't, they're ignorant, is worrying.
I'll say it again. Liking stuff is objective. you can say that X plot point doesn't make sense, or Y character had an annoying voice until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't mean that someone can't enjoy the films despite those.

[edit: my grammar is awful at the moment for some reason]

No. A) Saying the Star Trek remake isn't horrible in no way invalidates the criticisms of the prequels, and B) Goliath, I think you mean liking things is *SUBJECTIVE* not objective. Because the prequels are OBJECTIVELY bad movies. The Phantom Menace for example had four different endings with wildly different emotional tones all happening at the same time. There is no defending that except from a nonsensical fanboy apologist position. I'm sorry, because I wish they would have made good films. They did not.

**reds8n**

..I'll just leave this here I guess...

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3496

.. if anyone does get hold of it let us know what it's like please ! Ta.

.. dropped too much moolah on the d20 system books to justify this I reckon anyway, still, p'raps one day.

**Goliath**

Bromsy wrote:
Goliath wrote:
The very fact that you seem to think that because someone likes something that you don't, they're ignorant, is worrying.
I'll say it again. Liking stuff is objective. you can say that X plot point doesn't make sense, or Y character had an annoying voice until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't mean that someone can't enjoy the films despite those.

[edit: my grammar is awful at the moment for some reason]

No. A) Saying the Star Trek remake isn't horrible in no way invalidates the criticisms of the prequels, and B) Goliath, I think you mean liking things is *SUBJECTIVE* not objective. Because the prequels are OBJECTIVELY bad movies. The Phantom Menace for example had four different endings with wildly different emotional tones all happening at the same time. There is no defending that except from a nonsensical fanboy apologist position. I'm sorry, because I wish they would have made good films. They did not.

Yeah, that was my bad, I did mean subjective not objective. How does liking them mean that I'm assuming a nonsensical fanboy apologist position? I like the universe in which the stories are set, and the overall narrative and history of that universe. The tone of the endings or the voice of one of the characters has no bearing on the overall story within the film, which is what I enjoyed about them. Besides, can you honestly say that every single part of every prequel sucked? All of them had redeeming features, be it the space battle at the start of revenge of the sith, or the pod race in The Phantom Menace (in my opinion). I can forgive the failings of certain parts of the films because of how much I enjoyed other parts, and the fact that they expanded upon the history of one of my favourite universes.

**Lord Scythican**

streamdragon wrote:
I believe the dude with the black sabre mentions taking it off a dead jedi. Anyone can use a lightsaber, it's just a special sort of sword after all. Grievous uses 4 and he's not even force sensitive.

Well I am an old WEG buff, which was filled with writers that established the EU. That explanation didn't work back in the day, so it must have changed. Lightsabers were very difficult to use for non-forcewielders. It had something to do with the weight. From wookiepeida:

Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield, and it was extremely difficult—and dangerous—for the untrained to attempt using. However, in the hands of an expert of the Force, the lightsaber was a weapon to be greatly respected and feared.

Basically that explanation above was used but it went into greater detail. Even if you had great strength and dexterity and training to use it, you could never become a master at wielding it like the Jedi. The coordination was greatly enhanced by their force training. A normal person even with training couldn't do all those fancy moves without chopping their limbs off. So unless the guy with the black saber had force skills he shouldn't be able to go toe to toe with a Jedi Master in a lightsaber duel. That is why Qui-gon Jinn referred to Darth Maul in the Episode one as being well trained in the Jedi Arts. Maul didn't use any force skills in the battle, (well maybe the jump off the speeder). Qui-gon knew his abilities because of how he handled the saber.

Grevious on the other hand didn't use techniques. He used a more precise technical form that was enhanced by his cybernetics. Think of it more like a robot using precision laser welding. He had organics, but his lightsaber abilities were demonstrated by mechanical servos that had the speed to attack someone. If you notice he no finese and his sabers were easily dispatched by Obi-Wan.

streamdragon wrote:
Pacifist doesn't mean you are unable to fight.

It means you choose not to.

Well in my defense I never said they were unable to fight. If someone chooses not to fight they will have a pretty hard time keeping someone from kicking their face in, which is why I said did they ask them nicely to leave. The backstory never really say how they got them off the planet, which is a cop out.

**Manchu**

reds8n wrote:..I'll just leave this here I guess...

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3496

.. if anyone does get hold of it let us know what it's like please ! Ta.

.. dropped too much moolah on the d20 system books to justify this I reckon anyway, still, p'raps one day.

Ordered. Will review as when.

**Lynata**

reds8n wrote:
..I'll just leave this here I guess...
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3496

"Each of these independent game lines stands alone as a unique gaming experience while fully integrating with the others to form a single unified system."

Ugh. I rejoiced at these news until I read that last line. I think their 40k RPGs "burned me" in regards to their supposed intercompatibility. Still, willing to get positively surprised.
What system do they use? Waiting on a review by Manchu.

**Manchu**

Thread over here about the RPG:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/470726.page

**Easy E**

I have the old West End Games RPG. It was and is still ace.

**kronk**

I was a huge Star Wars CCG player in college and a few years out of college. I was a play-tester for Decipher Games and went to most of the major tournaments in Texas and Louisiana.

I loved the franchise. I disliked the prequels, but didn't hate them. "Han shot first" t-shirts still make me laugh. I agree with that sentiment, but it's been over-stated, I think. Just let it go, man. She's not your girlfriend anymore...

My friends picked up the new X-Wing game at GenCon and they really enjoy it. However, it just doesn't appeal to me.

FFG are also releasing the Star Wars RPG early next year. The Beta rules are out now. I got a free copy at GenCon for attending their In-Flight Report. However, I doubt my group will play it, nor will I be upset if they don't.

Anyway, back to your original question: "How do you feel about Star Wars?"

It's given me hundreds of hours worth of entertainment via Star Wars CCG, watching the movies, and some RPG experience back in 1999-2000. Only the Warhammer 40k HHHobby has taken more of my hobby time over the years. I feel I've outgrown a lot of the appeal that Star Wars used to have for me, but like an old sweet-heart, the memories are fond.

Edit: Holy gak! I totally forgot about playing Star Wars Galaxies, the Online MMO that Sony Online Entertainment gak all over. We played that for years and absolutely loved it before the "New Experience" bs went down and they treated us like that one Uncle the family doesn't talk about.

Yeah. Good times or something...

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

On a semi related side note, found these a while back and have been trying to think of a way of sharing them here on Dakka, this seems a likely thread for such an act.

Basically a group of re-imagined designs of the main characters from the original films, if they where at a school in the 80's.

Spoiler:

**Manchu**

Those are fantastic! But who's that with Lando? I thought it was Boba Fett but then I see him as part of the motorcross gang below.

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

I believe that was supposed to be Greedo.

**Manchu**

Lobot?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: Ah, okay.

**Easy E**

Those were great.

The green haired guy threw me, and it took me a bit to figure out the Tarkin and Jabba references.

I must be getting rusty.

**DIDM**

honestly, going back and watching the whole thing again I'd say the special effects were what captivated me as a child when I saw the OG 3, I hated the last ones which is why I had to go back and watch the first ones again.

just a lame series IMO, terrible acting, OK story, and some special effects

**Azza007**

I was wondering if one of you might be able to help me with one of the books. I read it years ago and haven't been able to find it since-can't remember the title.

The plot of the story was based around a new Jedi homeworld set up by Luke and attacked by new generation of Sith. There was a Jedi tree and a crystal snake from what I remember. The only book (Star Wars) I have read was this one and I just can't find it.

(sorry if this is hijacking the thread but thought it better to place here.)

**Lynata**

The Jedi homeworld probably refers to Luke's new academy on Yavin. There's also Ossus, but the Legacy era isn't that old so I suppose that one's right out.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Yavin_4#Appearances
Maybe that'll help you get started? Just glance over the plots of each novel. Still a lotta work, but just in case nobody else has anything to add.

[edit] Actually, is it this one? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Young_Jedi_Knights:_Jedi_Under_Siege

PS: Those re-imagined drawings are great.

**Amaya**

Azza007 wrote:
I was wondering if one of you might be able to help me with one of the books. I read it years ago and haven't been able to find it since-can't remember the title.

The plot of the story was based around a new Jedi homeworld set up by Luke and attacked by new generation of Sith. There was a Jedi tree and a crystal snake from what I remember. The only book (Star Wars) I have read was this one and I just can't find it.

(sorry if this is hijacking the thread but thought it better to place here.)

That sounds like Dark Empire. I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Jedi homeworld, just a major Jedi Temple and Library. IIRC, it played a major role during Exar Kun's rise to power.

**Azza007**

Cheers guys, as I said this was a while ago so quite fuzzy on a lot of the details.