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2012/09/21 22:58:41
Subject: Chick-fil-a buckles, turns gay. Or something like that. Might just change some policy instead.
whembly wrote: Did you just describe the lobbying industry?
Oh, don't worry, I would love to kill the lobbying industry as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/21 22:58:47
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2012/09/21 23:03:28
Subject: Chick-fil-a buckles, turns gay. Or something like that. Might just change some policy instead.
NRA might take away. They shoot back. You spend more time ducking and running, jiving and grooving and hopping and popping then trying to accomplish that goal. Now if you come across a Female Lobby Group for Strippers lobbying for the dancers not pay taxes on their tips let me know
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2012/09/21 23:33:02
Subject: Re:Chick-fil-a buckles, turns gay. Or something like that. Might just change some policy instead.
I'm leery about the legal personhood of corporations, but I don't understand the mentality that people losetheir right to free speech, just because they have limited financial liability and a structured organization. If I have the right to speak against gay marriage, why wouldn't a corporation I own?
Yeah, I draw a bit of a distinction between corporate speech in general and the specific issue of campaign finance. Though I'm not entirely comfortable treating corporations as if they have the same rights as human beings do. I do concur with d-usa about consequences, though. If you're a private individual donating to a cause I despise, you don't usually have to worry about me choosing not to spend money at you. If you're a business, maybe you care about making yourself less appealing to customers.
Polonius wrote: As for moral buying, I get it. I do. But I'm not going to deprive myself of something I enjoy because the owner has a viewpoint I disagree with. And all of the hyperbolic comparisons, Chick-fil-a isnt' the clan, or the Phelps, or the Tamil Tigers. They're a restaurant chain that has a conservative christian mentality, of which I agree with far more than I disagree.
Sure, but we each choose our own threshold about how much we're willing to inconvenience ourselves over a given moral or ethical point.
I might really enjoy a chicken sandwich from Chick-fil-a, but they're not a high priority for me, and I can easily get satisfying food elsewhere. Justice is a high priority for me, and for whatever reason, the injustices done to gay folks bothers me a good bit.
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Contrary to reports first made by the gay-activist group The Civil Rights Agenda (TCRA) on Tuesday and later picked up by mainstream media outlets, Chick-fil-A and its charitable-giving arm, the WinShape Foundation, did not agree to stop making donations to groups that support the biblical definition of marriage in exchange for being allowed to open a franchise in Chicago.
Manchu wrote:Whether you care for history or not, the notion of marriage as practiced in this country developed in the context of Western Christianity. "Marriage" as some inclusive term for disparate social phenomena throughout all human history and across all cultures is not what I'm talking about as changing. Obviously.
whembly wrote:Setting the record straight...
Contrary to reports first made by the gay-activist group The Civil Rights Agenda (TCRA) on Tuesday and later picked up by mainstream media outlets, Chick-fil-A and its charitable-giving arm, the WinShape Foundation, did not agree to stop making donations to groups that support the biblical definition of marriage in exchange for being allowed to open a franchise in Chicago.
Actually, the marriage concept was "institutionalized" during the Rome heyday...
I don't exactly remember what prompted this... but I'm pretty sure it either was because of tax reasons (ensuring consistent revenue) or the ability to vote.
Oh, don't worry, I would love to kill the lobbying industry as well.
There's nothing wrong with having a lobbying industry, in fact its basically necessary in a democracy this size as its an important part of communicating public desire to Congress. You can, however, argue that it has too much influence or too much access. That said, the best way to limit that is to develop lobbies in areas you are sympathetic to.
The problem is that, by giving the CEO access to the much greater financial and organizational resources of an entire corporation, "corporate" speech has much more influence than an individual person. It stops being about speech between equals and becomes little more than a question of which corporation can afford to buy the most speech. This is especially true when "speech" often includes giving corporate money to various causes that few, if any, individuals could attempt to match.
True, but I agree with Polonius that the larger issue is to what extent corporations should actually be granted personhood.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/23 03:40:56
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/09/23 06:21:58
Subject: Chick-fil-a buckles, turns gay. Or something like that. Might just change some policy instead.
People can boycott whatever they want for whatever reason they want. I'm in favor of gay marriage, or at least not against it, but this issue's pretty moot regardless thanks to demographics. In twenty years, even Mississippi's going to be gay marriage-friendly.
2012/09/23 15:25:44
Subject: Chick-fil-a buckles, turns gay. Or something like that. Might just change some policy instead.
The problem is that, by giving the CEO access to the much greater financial and organizational resources of an entire corporation, "corporate" speech has much more influence than an individual person. It stops being about speech between equals and becomes little more than a question of which corporation can afford to buy the most speech. This is especially true when "speech" often includes giving corporate money to various causes that few, if any, individuals could attempt to match.
True, but I agree with Polonius that the larger issue is to what extent corporations should actually be granted personhood.
I don't see how a CEO have access to a corporations resources is any more dangerous to free speech than somebody that is independently wealthy. Less so, actually, as a CEO needs to answer to shareholders, and can't fritter resources away on personal quests.
Although anybody that thinks that CEOs are the problem with corporations doesn't really understand the problem.
2012/09/23 22:20:04
Subject: Chick-fil-a buckles, turns gay. Or something like that. Might just change some policy instead.
If you're a business, maybe you care about making yourself less appealing to customers.
