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2012/10/04 17:14:33
Subject: Re:The "Let's Talk about the Debate" Thread
labmouse42 wrote: The thing is, Obama had a 'gimmie' at this debate. All he had to do was attack the Romney who spoke during the Republican primaries and not what Romney said at the debate.
If Romney said "That's not my plan", Obama should have replied "Really? On date 'X', you said 'Y'. Are you flip-flopping?"
Romney has been so inconsistant in his past that painting him to look bad is not hard.
The problem is Obama just kept repeating his talking points instead of going after the other guy -- where Romney was not afraid to do so. That's why Obama lost this debate IMHO.
He didn't need to at this point. He just needed to state his own positions clearly here. No sense in playing the flip-flop card this early and letting him turn it back to you on the last debate. You nail the other guy on flip-flopping in the last debate, just before the election. Let that be the last thing that the undecideds remember.
I agree with what either Dogma or Ahtman said earlier, it doesn't really matter at this point. The people that watched last night pretty much know who they're voting for or are debate/election junkies.
I've been sticking all my spare money on Obama whenever it gets to the end of a month and I've got spare cash in my paddy power account.
I got £230 on him at 4/7 and 2/5... the last few months, I think I started betting in about May and I got the idea after....er.. Biccat I think... Said he would bet a battle force with someone that Romney would win, and then I checked the odds online and thought "feth it, thats worth some cash!"
He's now 1/4 so betting has stopped, It ain't THAT certain.
Anyway, I have more faith in Americans than the rest of Europe after knowing them so well. I backed Obama last time and he came in, I'm hoping for the same again.
Which is sad really.. because I'm pretty right wing. I lean very Conservative, but however you slice it, the Republican Party in America is a whole different animal, it has now been hijacked by Religious zealots, and Religious zealots only make up about 30% of Americans. Ergo, I believe that Obama will still win regardless of defeat in the debate, I think that 99% of people know who they are now going to vote for anyway, so I really don't think that they make too large a difference to the end result.
At least I hope not, I'll have less money for booze this Christmas!
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Is this the point in the conversation where you just unilateral decide to start being a dick again?
Probably.
I'm sorry that I was reading multiple things at once and got ahead of myself and screwed up, and then had the temerity to admit that I did something wrong.
You made an excuse that doesn't really jive with what I see, so I highlighted it.
I can only hope that you will never know what it is like to be in error, as obliviously you are without sin, being perfect in both word and deed.
Indeed, many is the person who has commented I may be the second coming of Jesus.
AustonT wrote: What fundamental point was that? That he hadn't paid taxes in 10 years, pretty sure that was bunked pretty clearly by the summary.
See, this may be where we were referring to two different things. You are thinking of the idiotic Harry Reid statement where I am referring to the accusations that he is hiding money overseas instead of 'trickling down' his golden shower.
Oh those are separate now?
Harry Ried wrote:"Instead of owning up to his use of secret offshore tax havens in places like Bermuda and Switzerland to enrich himself, Mitt Romney parsed words to try and convince the American people that he did not benefit from these havens - when in fact, he appears to have made millions from them over the course of his career,"
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mattyrm wrote: I backed Obama last time and he came in, I'm hoping for the same again.
PHILISTINE!
Religious zealots only make up about 30% of Americans. Ergo, I believe that Obama will still win regardless of defeat in the debate
Not all of those religious zealots vote R eitherm only increasing your odds.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/04 17:21:35
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Yes. The difference being that one was a question multiple people were asking, and the other was the fever dream of Harry Reid. I don't think any reasonable person believed that Romney never paid any taxes.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Yes. The difference being that one was a question multiple people were asking, and the other was the fever dream of Harry Reid. I don't think any reasonable person believed that Romney never paid any taxes.
Right, totally unrelated /rollseyes. Will you be making some sort of point? Or are you just angry the Mittens makes money and pays taxes on it?
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/10/04 17:55:52
Subject: Re:The "Let's Talk about the Debate" Thread
Frazzled wrote: anniversaries, grandmother's and children were mnetioned. You could form up a regular family reunion with all the family nonsense both of them spat out.
Frazzled at the debate:
Opponent: "Well, we are having our anniversary today. Hi wife!"
Frazzled:" Way to suck up there Bob. What a wuss. "
Moderator: "and now candidate X. "
Frazzled interjecting: "just call him candidate PW'd."
Moderator: "er, as I was sayi"
Frazzled: "girly boy."
Moderator: "er, Mr. Frazzled"
Frazzled:"probably wears a skirt at home."
Moderator: "um"
Frazzled: "TBone's gonna make you his girlfriend."
Moderator: "thats it, I'm out."
Frazzled:"Just you and me now boy. You sure got a purty mouth."
Candidate concedes.
Mate, Its alright for you Yank soldiers. I don't think I ever met a single Dem in all my time amongst you, but we Brits can't handle all that Jesus! I might be pretty right wing, but I detest organised Religion, I think it is the worst thing plaguing the world at this moment in time, especially in America. The problem is, you can be right wing in the UK, and still believe in the core of that ethos (being tough on crime and immigration, minimising the welfare state, being fiscally conservative, having a strong military etc) and still believe in liberty, not so in the "land of the free" where the word conservative has been hijacked by Christianity.
Can you honestly say that the most Religious Republicans agree with things like a womans right to choose or gay rights? They are fundamentally linked. If you are a proper Church going Christian in America and you are 100% behind equality for the LGBT community, or 100% behind a woman's right to have an abortion, then you are basically cracking your own detail and making your own Religion up.
They can equivocate and fence sit and water down your answers much as they like, the facts are on my side. These are issues that the Religious lobby in the States are absolutely crystal clear about. Also, 35-40% of Americans believe that the earth is less than 6000 years old. Can you really bring yourself to side with them?
Now, I like John McCain despite it all. We were voting for him up until Mungo (Palin) turned up and my missus had to scratch her vote, she went for an independant cos she liked Hilary.
So no big fans of BO here... but this time around, Its Obama all the way, much as I dislike the man.
At the end of the day, Its the choice between a relatively normal guy I don't like at all, and an MMM, who leads a party that has a genuinely sizeable percentage of members want to turn America into a Theocracy. Oh sure they love to harp on about freedom and liberty, until they get the opportunity to go on and on and on about Jesus. If it was down to people like Roy Blunt or Tom Coburn or Roger Wicker they would gleefully ban abortions for everyone, make it illegal.
And "liberty" be damned.
And I can't even keep a straight face with Mormons. I find it even more amusing that they think they can mock scientologists, when the latter is only 0.1% more ridiculous than the former.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/04 18:07:18
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/10/04 18:14:31
Subject: Re:The "Let's Talk about the Debate" Thread
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/05 07:55:03
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/10/04 21:06:53
Subject: Re:The "Let's Talk about the Debate" Thread
Mate, Its alright for you Yank soldiers. I don't think I ever met a single Dem in all my time amongst you, but we Brits can't handle all that Jesus!
I've met a few Dems, but for obvious reasons I've just met a lot more US soldiers. Thinking back the last chaplain I knew on active duty was an Anglican, which I thought was kind of weird. Beside the point. The first thing he said in front of our BN was to ask who was from Michigan and jokingly (I hope) damned them to hell. I think in the .mil we tolerate religion more than we accept it, I'd have to say from my experience that religion was less prevalent than what I have experienced in civilian life since leaving.
Can you honestly say that the most Religious Republicans agree with things like a womans right to choose or gay rights? They are fundamentally linked. If you are a proper Church going Christian in America and you are 100% behind equality for the LGBT community, or 100% behind a woman's right to have an abortion, then you are basically cracking your own detail and making your own Religion up.
They can equivocate and fence sit and water down your answers much as they like, the facts are on my side. These are issues that the Religious lobby in the States are absolutely crystal clear about. Also, 35-40% of Americans believe that the earth is less than 6000 years old. Can you really bring yourself to side with them?
I can't speak for most Religious Republicans, but I'll say for my own part I don't 100% support abortion or gay rights. I'm no particular friend to the gay community. I don't understand nor do I particularly approve of homosexuality nor do I find abortion morally acceptable. I still support, almost militantly, the right to choose abortion and equal rights and protections for gays. I believe as many before me did that politics and religion make strange bedfellows. You are correct in saying I cannot support certain causes 100% and maintain my belief system, you are incorrect in saying I have to choose one or the other. There are plenty of pro-life and pro-gay Christian Democrats.
I don't identify with the Religious lobby and no I can't side with people who genuinely believe the earth is 6000 years old and then take their kids to the museum to see the dinosaurs. It takes a special kind of idiot...
What's especially dangerous to me, is that there is a growing Religious Left. I fear that the growth of such a group may cause the Democrats to move right rather than the Republicans to move left. In a perfect world ( or a parliamentary democracy) the Religious lobby could splinter off into it's own party centered around the abrogation of rights, bigotry, and other nonsense. Back in the real world the Republicans are wearing the anchor of the religious right around their ankle and wading into the ocean, while the Democrats are on the beach stripping and hooking up the religious left.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
AustonT wrote: Back in the real world the Republicans are wearing the anchor of the religious right around their ankle and wading into the ocean, while the Democrats are on the beach stripping and hooking up the religious left.
I like that quote.
The point is, I suppose I'm what you lads call a libertarian. Obviously I'm not gay, or interested in any of the scene or anything, I like bitter, dingy pubs with no juke box and war movies. Not flamboyance and wigs.
I just don't think if you aren't Religious you can possibly give that much of a gak about what other people get up to.
I don't really understand the whole LGBT thing at all, but the point is, if something is between two consenting adults, or just involves you and your family, then I don't see what that has got to do with anyone else.
As I said, I identify myself as being conservative, firmly centre of the right, and from getting to know you on here, we probably agree on 99% of points politically, but that anchor you are talking about is what makes the Republicans in the States unelectable for a centre right conservative like me. The more right of centre parties in the UK just don't have that Religious anchor involved in the equation. I find three individual things particularly repellent for example, and that is the Christian (and therefore the upper echelons of the Republican party) views on gays, abortion and euthanasia. All three of those things I feel extremely strongly about because I think they only involve the individuals. A person suffering from cancer wants to die? That's their decision. A bird wants an abortion? Thats her decision. 5 gay men want to lube up, put on some Right Said Fred, spank their parts with a hot baguette and then daisy chain around their apartment? Nothing to do with me.
And isnt sticking your fething nose in on gak like that the exact opposite of "freedom" and "liberty" doesn't it make a mockery of their claims about "small government" when they think they can tell you what you can do with your own ovaries, what you can stick your own balls in, and when your allowed to end your own life?!
I identify and agree with a great many things that the American right say, I agree with less assistance from the state, I constantly slate the waste of the British NHS and the welfare state. I support that "get up and go" mentality they have in the States far more than the "I hope the government can help me" attitude of the left, I just can't get past that narrow interpretation of the Bible that stands in front of the Republicans, and therefore support the dishonest and charmless Mr Obama.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/10/04 21:32:27
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/10/05 00:51:15
Subject: Re:The "Let's Talk about the Debate" Thread
[DCM]
GW Public Relations Manager (Privateer Press Mole)
Really, a cursory Google and a number of websites fact check debates.
Also, politicians tend to be good at telling the truth---politically. So, like all of the forwards a person receives from dear Auntie May--there is enough truth sprinkled in the lie that any declaration that is was a 'lie' can be obfuscated by repeating the kernel of truth. Pointing out why the half truth is essentially false takes time and energy, something most working folks/parents do not have enough of.
Adepticon TT 2009---Best Heretical Force
Adepticon 2010---Best Appearance Warhammer Fantasy Warbands
Adepticon 2011---Best Team Display
2012/10/05 01:24:04
Subject: Re:The "Let's Talk about the Debate" Thread
The majority of what Romney said was full of lies and hollow answers ( as usual), but Obama failed to challenge him on any of it.
The moderator was also one of the worst I have ever seen. No control over the event...
Shouldn't have moderators in the first place. Just let them go at it. Two candidates enter! One candidate leaves!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/10/05 01:37:20
Subject: Re:The "Let's Talk about the Debate" Thread
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/10/05 03:07:11
Subject: Re:The "Let's Talk about the Debate" Thread
Peregrine wrote: Yeah, I'm talking about the media coverage of the debate. Unless the debate was such an obvious Romney failure that nobody could say "Romney won" with a straight face the coverage was going to be about how Romney did well and can expect to regain some poll numbers, no matter what Obama did.
It isn't that bad. But I agree with the general idea that Romney's win will be overstated in the next week or so, because it's a better story than 'debate happened, won't change anything'.
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Seaward wrote: I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Ron Paul's not a libertarian, for the record.
No-one with any meaningful political power ever is.
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dogma wrote: There's a difference. Romney is down in polls and Obama has incumbent advantage, there is a natural incentive, in this case, to bait the opponent. This has been effective in the sense that Romney has been forced to outline an economic plan.
There is a ton of campaign fodder in Romney's responses that wasn't present before, but very little in Obama's. Romney's trickle-down quote is, to be frank, fething gold.
"So, you don't believe that trickle-down policies are effective?"
Yeah, it made me think of Carter v Ford, the meaningful part to come out of those debates was Ford saying Eastern Europe wasn't under Soviet domination. No-one picked up on it at the time, the debate just moved on. Even in the post-debate coverage no-one mentioned it.
But then the Carter campaign picked up on it, made it a thing, and Ford handled it badly in the following weeks, and it became the part of the debates that really mattered.
Romney's efforts last night, 'clarifying' a lot of his positions by basically backing away from stuff he'd said previously, well it got him a good result on the night, but I suspect it might leave the door open for Obama to really hammer him on the etcha sketch thing from now on.
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Monster Rain wrote: The post in which you brought up myths was in response to a quote from Seaward in which he mentioned who won the debate, though.
But the myth I specifically mentioned was the claim that polls are misleading because the turnout estimates are skewed, so keep faith troops, and keep making those calls and knocking on those doors.
I mean, just go back and read my response, its quite clear.
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Frazzled wrote: anniversaries, grandmother's and children were mnetioned. You could form up a regular family reunion with all the family nonsense both of them spat out.
At some point some genius figured out that candidates that appeared human and more like us we're more likely to score the votes of idiots. Ever since then we've been getting press releases about the name of the President's family pet, and wedding anniversaries and whatever else.
God damn, I long for the days when the president could be a closet homosexual, and no-one would know or care to find out.
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AustonT wrote: The CBP only puts up about 15% of funding for public broadcasters. Removing Federal funding is not a death nell to PBS or NPR. If education or public safety get cut to balance budgets CBP should not be sacrosanct.
And that amount is utterly trivial in the context of the national debt. I couldn't believe it when Romney started talking about such pointless non-money amounts. Like if I asked the wife how we were going to get the household budget in order and she said she was going to stop buying cotton wipes.
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labmouse42 wrote: Sadly, Romney lost me when he went after Big Bird. I could agree with a lot of his points, but why kill PBS, when instead we could remove ONE A-10 from our fleet to cover a year of PBS. PBS is a bargin for what it provides.
Exactly. Romney wants 2 trillion more in defence expenditure, but thinks you can't afford Sesame Street.
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AustonT wrote: Right, totally unrelated /rollseyes. Will you be making some sort of point? Or are you just angry the Mittens makes money and pays taxes on it?
Jesus dude, the guy made a mistake then owned up to it. Stop being an ass.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2012/10/05 03:30:58
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2012/10/05 03:44:06
Subject: Re:The "Let's Talk about the Debate" Thread
Exactly. Romney wants 2 trillion more in defence expenditure, but thinks you can't afford Sesame Street.
To be fair, there is a good argument that PBS would be better off if it didn't take government money because it wouldn't have to deal with being a political football. The same for NPR.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/10/05 03:44:53
Subject: Re:The "Let's Talk about the Debate" Thread
Exactly. Romney wants 2 trillion more in defence expenditure, but thinks you can't afford Sesame Street.
To be fair, there is a good argument that PBS would be better off if it didn't take government money because it wouldn't have to deal with being a political football. The same for NPR.
Yeah... then they can do whatever they want... oh, wait!
>Raptors Lead the Way < 
