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2012/10/26 17:09:28
Subject: Re:WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Forget the "terrorist" vs. movie nonsense. If true, this is a smoking gun in that Obama specifically denied a request for more support. Thats very bad, but only if the MsM covers it.
I'm sure they'll get right to it...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/10/26 17:12:53
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
d-usa wrote: Keep in mind that we can't exactly send our own fighter planes into sovereign airspace to defend our embassy.
Pretty sure a C130 could have provided airsupport without entering Libyian airspace. Benghazi is a coastal town.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Frazzled wrote: Forget the "terrorist" vs. movie nonsense. If true, this is a smoking gun in that Obama specifically denied a request for more support.
I was fairly certain that they were talking about a request for more security in general at that time. Of course that still did not match up with the whole "we asked to extend the extra security and they said no" which was excused with the "it got denied before it got to the White House, so we didn't know about it " hand wave.
2012/10/26 17:33:20
Subject: Re:WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Frazzled wrote: Forget the "terrorist" vs. movie nonsense. If true, this is a smoking gun in that Obama specifically denied a request for more support.
I was fairly certain that they were talking about a request for more security in general at that time. Of course that still did not match up with the whole "we asked to extend the extra security and they said no" which was excused with the "it got denied before it got to the White House, so we didn't know about it " hand wave.
Yes, indeed. I don't blame the WH if the WH wasn't involved as this is State Department stuff. But if something went for approval to the WH and was denied, thats a different story (why would it go to the WH anyway?)
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/10/26 17:41:33
Subject: Re:WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Maybe they were denied and decided to send a direct appeal to the president?
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Frazzled wrote: Forget the "terrorist" vs. movie nonsense. If true, this is a smoking gun in that Obama specifically denied a request for more support.
I was fairly certain that they were talking about a request for more security in general at that time. Of course that still did not match up with the whole "we asked to extend the extra security and they said no" which was excused with the "it got denied before it got to the White House, so we didn't know about it " hand wave.
Yes, indeed. I don't blame the WH if the WH wasn't involved as this is State Department stuff. But if something went for approval to the WH and was denied, thats a different story (why would it go to the WH anyway?)
Unless it gets mentioned in cabinet meetings I don't expect a lot of things to make mention in the White House. I think Obama doesn't have full cabinet meetings as often as Bush did though. Hillary taking responsibility was a good thing, although I'm not even sure the decision to decline the extension of security even made it to her desk. But good job as boss to take the fall for your people.
2012/10/26 17:46:25
Subject: Re:WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Grey Templar wrote: Maybe they were denied and decided to send a direct appeal to the president?
That would have to be some major string pullage on the part of the two guys lazing targets on the ground...
Which just makes it far less likely that they would have gotten any kind of support if they were lazing targets, since Benghazi isn't exactly downtown Jihadi Central. I can't see the authorization of any kind of laser guided munitions in those circumstances.
2012/10/26 18:12:49
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
I just read that. If live time feed was happening and being viewed by whoever in DC it would take Obama permission to launch a military mission into Libya or enable military asset to be used (Spectre, drone strikes, whatnot) That mortar team should have been drone striked. I wonder though who kept denying the assist to the consulate from the CIA connex
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
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RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/10/26 18:56:42
Subject: Re:WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Jihadin wrote: I just read that. If live time feed was happening and being viewed by whoever in DC it would take Obama permission to launch a military mission into Libya or enable military asset to be used (Spectre, drone strikes, whatnot) That mortar team should have been drone striked. I wonder though who kept denying the assist to the consulate from the CIA connex
Someone in the CIA structure, I don't think it ever got to the O man.
I'm waiting to see if any real evidence comes out of the Blaze's story that Hillary specifically asked for security at Benghazi and Barry shut her down.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/10/26 18:58:14
Subject: Re:WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Jihadin wrote: I just read that. If live time feed was happening and being viewed by whoever in DC it would take Obama permission to launch a military mission into Libya or enable military asset to be used (Spectre, drone strikes, whatnot) That mortar team should have been drone striked. I wonder though who kept denying the assist to the consulate from the CIA connex
This begs a question...
If the embassy/consulate was attacked... don't we do whatever to protect them? Even with Military assets? Isn't this technically an attack against the US?
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/10/26 19:02:22
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/10/26 19:05:39
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
They would go if Obama gave the order. Auston gave a good point. Was Patreus/Obama even informed as the attacks develope over time till the next day.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/10/26 19:07:10
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Remember. A additional marine embassy platoon was being sent into Syria but was denied by the country government.
edit
Might not be Syria though. I can't remember off top of my head which country said no
Automatically Appended Next Post: COnsulate is not the same as an Embassy
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/26 19:08:29
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/10/26 19:17:53
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Even if it was the actual Embassy, can you just send military assets into a foreign country?
Or are there some sort of agreements that get signed for stuff like that?
I'll go ahead and say I have no real idea. But I ASSSUME that inside the walls all bets are off, but I'm sure there's a ROE.so it's not shoot on sight either. I do know that no USMC embassy guards were stationed at the Libyan Embassy either, so who knows what contractors would do. Especially State Department security contractors who, you know, don't have the greatest record of restraint.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/10/26 19:27:22
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Even if it was the actual Embassy, can you just send military assets into a foreign country?
Or are there some sort of agreements that get signed for stuff like that?
I'll go ahead and say I have no real idea. But I ASSSUME that inside the walls all bets are off, but I'm sure there's a ROE.so it's not shoot on sight either. I do know that no USMC embassy guards were stationed at the Libyan Embassy either, so who knows what contractors would do. Especially State Department security contractors who, you know, don't have the greatest record of restraint.
I figured that anything inside the walls are fair game depending on local orders. Just wondering about military backing up outside of the embassy.
2012/10/26 19:30:55
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
From what I understand, that may be untrue, anything outside the walls is the host countries problem. And if you say...shot someone outside the walls bad things happen. London 1984.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/10/26 19:33:15
Subject: Re:WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
MArine Embassy platoon is kept inside the embassy itself to protect the sensitive areas of the embassy. They do not go combat mode outside the embassy building itself into the courtyard to the walls.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/10/26 19:34:00
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
AustonT wrote: From what I understand, that may be untrue, anything outside the walls is the host countries problem. And if you say...shot someone outside the walls bad things happen. London 1984.
That's what I was kind of thinking, which would make it seem like it was a pointless exercise to paint targets with a laser. But I honestly don't know either.
2012/10/26 19:36:25
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
AustonT wrote: From what I understand, that may be untrue, anything outside the walls is the host countries problem. And if you say...shot someone outside the walls bad things happen. London 1984.
That's what I was kind of thinking, which would make it seem like it was a pointless exercise to paint targets with a laser. But I honestly don't know either.
Here's what is confusing me... we're they CIA agents or Private Contractors?
If Private Contractors... can THEY even call in a strike?
How does that work? (not sure if I like that either...)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/26 19:36:47
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2012/10/26 19:48:34
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
I'm reading between the lines but the guys in the story Jihadin linked were almost certainly CIAPM who can and do call for military support and strikes.
@dusa painting a target is like pointing a finger in IR.
It's a invisible way to signal to anyone overhead with IR capability, "look here" it's not always followed by a weapon.
We used to use our laser to point out escaping "squiters"from raids to ground forces. Painters or spotters are used more freqeuntly than you'd probably think, for mundane reasons.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/10/26 19:51:00
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
AustonT wrote: I'm reading between the lines but the guys in the story Jihadin linked were almost certainly CIAPM who can and do call for military support and strikes.
@dusa painting a target is like pointing a finger in IR.
It's a invisible way to signal to anyone overhead with IR capability, "look here" it's not always followed by a weapon.
We used to use our laser to point out escaping "squiters"from raids to ground forces. Painters or spotters are used more freqeuntly than you'd probably think, for mundane reasons.
Thanks dude .
Now, next question... were they assigned to the Ambassador's security detail? Or, did they run to defend them during the attack?
The news is breaking today but there is a small bit that is being overlooked. According to the statements from Fox News:
The security officer had a laser on the target that was firing and repeatedly requested back-up support from a Specter gunship, which is commonly used by U.S. Special Operations forces to provide support to Special Operations teams on the ground involved in intense firefights. The fighting at the CIA annex went on for more than four hours — enough time for any planes based in Sigonella Air base, just 480 miles away, to arrive. Fox News has also learned that two separate Tier One Special operations forces were told to wait, among them Delta Force operators.
Everyone is reporting this but they are missing a key point. From the retired Delta operator:
Having spent a good bit of time nursing a GLD (ground Laser Designator) in several garden spots around the world, something from the report jumped out at me.
One of the former SEALs was actively painting the target. That means that Specter WAS ON STATION! Probably an AC130U. A ground laser designator is not a briefing pointer laser. You do not "paint" a target until the weapons system/designator is synched; which means that the AC130 was on station.
Only two places could have called off the attack at that point; the WH situation command (based on POTUS direction) or AFRICOM commander based on information directly from the target area.
If the AC130 never left Sigonella (as Penetta says) that means that the Predator that was filming the whole thing was armed.
If that SEAL was actively "painting" a target; something was on station to engage! And the decision to stand down goes directly to POTUS!
This is far bigger than Watergate.
The second worst feeling in the world has to be the platform crew being desperately asked for help, given a clear target and then having to stand down and watch your fellow Americans die.
The worst has to be the team on the ground knowing that the President just left you to die.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/26 20:45:21
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/10/26 20:51:48
Subject: Re:WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Jihadin wrote: I just read that. If live time feed was happening and being viewed by whoever in DC it would take Obama permission to launch a military mission into Libya or enable military asset to be used (Spectre, drone strikes, whatnot) That mortar team should have been drone striked. I wonder though who kept denying the assist to the consulate from the CIA connex
Someone in the CIA structure, I don't think it ever got to the O man.
I'm waiting to see if any real evidence comes out of the Blaze's story that Hillary specifically asked for security at Benghazi and Barry shut her down.
If it does Hill is going to come out looking like a saint, especially after formally taking the blame.
Maybe that was her game all along? We know Clintons don't do anything without their personal bottom line in mind.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Why I think Hillary literally step forward and took the blame for her Dept. In a nutshell I think she rammed a stiff one up Obama by taking that option instead of having Obama point a finger at her. Obama kept saying its Intell fault but no clarification on "why" its their fault. She cover down nicely on them by mentioning "subject to change" being mention on her intell brief. Well now I think about it. She covered down on her Dept and the CIA which made the WH look like a bunch of amateurs. State Dept no longer in the crossfire on who's at fault.....yummy on Vicoden
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/10/27 05:03:22
Subject: Re:WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
Read that that General Ham as head of Africom received the same e-mails the White House received requesting help/support as the attack was taking place. General Ham immediately had a rapid response unit ready and communicated to the Pentagon that he had a unit ready.
A Special Forces commander’s in-extremis force, or CIF, company. A CIF is highly trained in direct action and available to conduct no-notice high-risk missions for the geographic combatant commander its parent SF group supports.
General Ham then received the order to stand down. His response was to screw it, he was going to help anyhow. Within 30 seconds to a minute after making the move to respond, his second in command apprehended General Ham and told him that he was now relieved of his command.
The story continues that now General Rodiguez would take General Ham's place as the head of Africon.
/tinfoil on... seems awfully coincidental eh? /tinfoil off
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/10/27 21:18:36
Subject: WH Was Told That The Benghazi Attack Was A Terrorist Attack Within Two Hours
A general being relieved of command as he was preparing to send military assets into a sovereign country despite clear and direct orders to the contrary?
.