Snowden Strikes Again - Against Brits

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**CptJake**

Alfndrate wrote:

But seriously, I think this whole thing is a gak storm, and I honestly don't see how the government couldn't follow all legal channels with this. If he gets caught, 2 things will most likely happen.
1) Some weird level of action movie gun fight goes down, and Snowden is killed during the ensuing firefight. The press gets wind of this, and all news stations immediately start to question why were things not done peacefully.

Seriously? What could prompt you to propose this as a likely scenario? Do you have any non-movie examples of folks charged with similar crimes going down in a hail of gunfire when the feds show up to arrest them?

**Alfndrate**

CptJake wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:

But seriously, I think this whole thing is a gak storm, and I honestly don't see how the government couldn't follow all legal channels with this. If he gets caught, 2 things will most likely happen.
1) Some weird level of action movie gun fight goes down, and Snowden is killed during the ensuing firefight. The press gets wind of this, and all news stations immediately start to question why were things not done peacefully.

Seriously? What could prompt you to propose this as a likely scenario? Do you have any non-movie examples of folks charged with similar crimes going down in a hail of gunfire when the feds show up to arrest them?

note the "weird level of action movie gun fight" I don't expect this AT ALL to happen because it's not likely to happen, this guy didn't kill cops and hide in the cabin like the guy who went crazy in LA a few months ago, this guy is a computer nerd like yours truly here. The issue is that if he somehow dies in the attempts to capture him, no one is going to know how it went down, and people will press for information.

Edit: What could prompt me to suggest a scenario like this? Probably because this is turning into the plot of a bad action film with each passing day, that and the fact I've been up for almost 3 hours with no coffee.

**Seaward**

The dude's an IT weenie, not Jason Bourne.

**Breotan**

How does an IT weenie scrape together the kind of cash necessary to hide out in Hong Kong, fly to Moscow, and then live the expat life in Equador? I mean, the guy is only 30 and has literally zero job prospects. I'm also very skeptical of that claim about a $200,000 salary.

**Alfndrate**

Seaward wrote:
The dude's an IT weenie, not Jason Bourne.

Yeah, but unlike the Bourne films, this is plausible!

**Seaward**

Breotan wrote:
How does an IT weenie scrape together the kind of cash necessary to hide out in Hong Kong, fly to Moscow, and then live the expat life in Equador? I mean, the guy is only 30 and has literally zero job prospects. I'm also very skeptical of that claim about a $200,000 salary.

I'm not. Booz was paying him 122K.

**CptJake**

Alfndrate wrote:
Seaward wrote:
The dude's an IT weenie, not Jason Bourne.

Yeah, but unlike the Bourne films, this is plausible!

No, Snowden engaging in a Hollywood type gunfight is not plausible.

**Alfndrate**

CptJake wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:
Seaward wrote:
The dude's an IT weenie, not Jason Bourne.

Yeah, but unlike the Bourne films, this is plausible!

No, Snowden engaging in a Hollywood type gunfight is not plausible.

Snowden's entire actions (fake gunfight not included) are more plausible than the bourne films...

**Seaward**

Hey, good news. He's still in Russia. But Putin assures us all that the Russians haven't worked him over.

**kronk**

Well, Putin does have a Super Bowl ring that he could "kill somebody with".

He better watch out!

**Monster Rain**

I just picture a barechested Putin running around, and blasting people with energy bolts from his Superbowl ring Green Lantern style.

**kronk**

Still a better script than last years Green Lantern.

**Breotan**

Ouch.

**d-usa**

I thought Putin was the best rebranding of James Bond yet.

**Jihadin**

It'll be a block buster hit. Putin...bare chested....with Superbowl ring...Lungren accent....it'll be Expendable 3....where half the team gets wrecked in a fist fight with Putin in under 1-2 min. He was in Van Damme Satan gang 2nd in command and protégé...

**azazel the cat**

sebster wrote:
Seaward wrote:
I ask this question in all seriousness: is this just entitlement generation mentality writ large? Entertainment should be free, information should be unrestricted, I should be able to find out whatever I want no matter how dangerous the information might be in the wrong hands?

Trying to frame whether the public should or shouldn't know about PRISM as entitlement? That's just weird.

Not when you look at it in the context of the single most institutionalized person on the forums.

**Seaward**

azazel the cat wrote:
Not when you look at it in the context of the single most institutionalized person on the forums.

For guys who shriek, "Strawman!" in place of actual argument, you and sebster sure do make use of them an awful lot.

**Monster Rain**

You noticed that too, huh? Not directed at any specific posters, of course, but there's usually a fair amount of irony in the way some posters like to throw around fallacy accusations.

I'd say that was more "ad hominem", though.

**Seaward**

Monster Rain wrote:
You noticed that too, huh?

I'd say that was more "ad hominem", though.

Azazel's was an ad hominem, sure. Sebster's point that he was supporting was most certainly a strawman, though. The question clearly didn't relate only to PRISM, yet he's not (quite) foolish enough to claim that classified information has no place at all in a modern, democratic society, so he opted to punt.

**azazel the cat**

Seaward wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:
Not when you look at it in the context of the single most institutionalized person on the forums.

For guys who shriek, "Strawman!" in place of actual argument, you and sebster sure do make use of them an awful lot.

That's not even remotely close to a strawman. I'd be inclined to say that it's more of an ad hominem, except it wasn't meant as an attack; more of an explanation for the source of your very stalwart and predictable viewpoint on the matter. If you prefer, think of it as a dismissive editorialization, on par with your question:

Seaward wrote:I ask this question in all seriousness: is this just entitlement generation mentality writ large?

**whembly**

It just doesn't stop...

Greenwald promises more NSA revelations

Glenn Greenwald, the journalist who broke the news about the National Security Agency's surveillance program, says that he has yet to publish most of the revelations contained in leaked documents provided by former security contractor Edward Snowden.

"The majority of revelations that are significant have yet to be made," Greenwald told the Wall Street Journal in an article published on Tuesday.

Greenwald said he is currently working on stories based on leaked documents provided by Snowden, who took responsibility for leaking classified documents to the Guardian and The Washington Post earlier this month.

Asked about the nature of the forthcoming revelations, Greenwald told POLITICO he could not preview any of his reporting before it was ready.

**Jihadin**

Back on topic

Putin says "No"
1. We've no extradition Agreement with the US
2. No Russian laws have been broken

Snowden and his passport being cancel by the US. Doesn't really work. One can travel under Asylum papers. He's waiting on Ecuador to process and approve the paperwork.

**azazel the cat**

whembly wrote:It just doesn't stop...

Greenwald promises more NSA revelations

Glenn Greenwald, the journalist who broke the news about the National Security Agency's surveillance program, says that he has yet to publish most of the revelations contained in leaked documents provided by former security contractor Edward Snowden.

"The majority of revelations that are significant have yet to be made," Greenwald told the Wall Street Journal in an article published on Tuesday.

Greenwald said he is currently working on stories based on leaked documents provided by Snowden, who took responsibility for leaking classified documents to the Guardian and The Washington Post earlier this month.

Asked about the nature of the forthcoming revelations, Greenwald told POLITICO he could not preview any of his reporting before it was ready.

I hope Greenwald is double & triple-checking everything he possibly can. Just one slip-up, one error, and it'll taint the validity of everything.

**whembly**

I get that sense too... otherwise, why sit on a potential bombshell??

**azazel the cat**

whembly wrote:I get that sense too... otherwise, why sit on a potential bombshell??

Just to play Devil's Advocate, it could be the principle behind a good mix tape: you have to space out the high-impact songs, or else the audience will get bored.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Greenwald is literally in the process of making his career here, one slip up will not be tolerated on his part by himself and his bosses.

**whembly**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Greenwald is literally in the process of making his career here, one slip up will not be tolerated on his part by himself and his bosses.

...
Good for him.

Prediction time... it's probably some old secret Presidential Order that started this. (didn't start with Obama guys).

**azazel the cat**

whembly wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Greenwald is literally in the process of making his career here, one slip up will not be tolerated on his part by himself and his bosses.

...
Good for him.

Prediction time... it's probably some old secret Presidential Order that started this. (didn't start with Obama guys).

Obvious prediction is obvious.

It'd be very easy to assume this is a post-911 Bush order, but I think I'm gonna put my wager on the longer odds and say that the groundwork started with Clinton.

**whembly**

azazel the cat wrote:
whembly wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Greenwald is literally in the process of making his career here, one slip up will not be tolerated on his part by himself and his bosses.

...
Good for him.

Prediction time... it's probably some old secret Presidential Order that started this. (didn't start with Obama guys).

Obvious prediction is obvious.

It'd be very easy to assume this is a post-911 Bush order, but I think I'm gonna put my wager on the longer odds and say that the groundwork started with Clinton.

Clinton? o.O

I'd wager either Reagan or Bush.

**Seaward**

PRISM? We already know where PRISM came from. NSA laid the legal groundwork when they started arguing Fourth Amendment implications on potential PRISM-like programs after 9/11. It was reported, but nobody paid attention. PRISM itself has been reported on multiple times before Snowden, just not by name. Wasn't dramatic enough without the gooey details.

PRISM's a drop in the bucket if he even has half of what he claims to have, because the overwhelming majority of it has nothing to do with protecting American constitutional freedoms, as dubious a claim as that is. The majority of it is NSA operations against other countries.