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Furyou Miko wrote:Yes, and if you accept that smart kids get bullied in school, you're happy with that, too...

I don't get it,..

Atropamin wrote:Even though I like Nurgle in a way, since he's rather funny and fatherly, those tender feelings () would never override my disgust at the decay and illnesses carried by Nurgleites.
I don't like Khorne, by the way, but it still would be quite likely to fall to him...
Slaanesh is completely out of the question that little upstart
Tzeentch...well, I can live with change...

But still: The Emperor protects!^^

I've always held a respect for Khorne, But it is all RAEGE and mindless killing with him.
Slaanesh always creeped me out, I've never even allowed slaaneshi units in my army.
I like Tzeentch, as I like magic, power and knowledge, but I can't quite get over the fact that he'd readily remove me from existence just to make one guardsman move his left hand at just the right moment to change the flight path of a fly, so that it flies over to an imperial planetary governor and annoy him for a few seconds.

On second thought, I would have been claimed by Khorne if not Tzeentch. While I think of my self as highly inquisitive and insightful, I know that my greatest weakness is my snap temper and rage.

Khorne would have me bound within a Daemon Weapon. @.@

Reason I chose nurgle is:
Tzeentch you are a pawn to his devices ready to be abandoned the moment things get hairy
Khorne: The thing with 'Blood for the Blood God!" is it doesnt matter whos blood is shed, he just wants blood
Slaanesh: He is a bit too rapey for my tastes, and I prefer my only addiction being plastic crack and cigarrettes
Nurgle: While being gross in general, he has the redeeming factor of being capable of positive emotions, granted in a very chaosy way, but heck he views his worshippers as family instead of fodder/pawns, and he even 'loves' a woman/eldar/goddess/whatever Isha is considered.

Oh might as well add...
Emperor:Generally uncaring to his billions-trillions of pawns, bit of a control freak, quite frankly about as bad as tzeentch.

 Wardragoon wrote:

Nurgle: While being gross in general, he has the redeeming factor of being capable of positive emotions, granted in a very chaosy way, but heck he views his worshippers as family instead of fodder/pawns, and he even 'loves' a woman/eldar/goddess/whatever Isha is considered.

Oh might as well add...
Emperor:Generally uncaring to his billions-trillions of pawns, bit of a control freak, quite frankly about as bad as tzeentch.

I feel I should point out, since Nurgle's "jovial nature" has been pointed out over and again, that he eats his favorite children, the Nurgling. ;>> Probably worse.... Plaguebearers are also generally unpleasant beings, which, I guess when we consider which Chaos God would claim us, we should also consider what we might be to that God.

So, if Khorne plucked me up, in the 40k universe, while I think I'd have ended up a Bloodletter, I think it more likely he would make me a Hound. Or perhaps I would just be molded in such a way. @.@

With Tzeentch, I'd like to be a Lord of Change, but I'd probably get no further than a Horror. ><!

I revise a previous statement. Unless I was a commissar, inquisitor or some high-ranking official, I'd probably give up on the political mess that is the Imperium and go to Khorne for honor and glory or Tzeentch for the lulz.

Mortal servants of Chaos rarely become Daemons. Usually, they just end up dead. Some of them get to be Spawn! One in a trillion might get Daemon Prince.

TheRedWingArmada wrote:


I feel I should point out, since Nurgle's "jovial nature" has been pointed out over and again, that he eats his favorite children, the Nurgling. ;>> Probably worse.... Plaguebearers are also generally unpleasant beings, which, I guess when we consider which Chaos God would claim us, we should also consider what we might be to that God.

Sure he eats them, as do most of his greater daemonic followers... only to vomit them out later, after empowering them with even more plagues...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
Mortal servants of Chaos rarely become Daemons. Usually, they just end up dead. Some of them get to be Spawn! One in a trillion might get Daemon Prince.

Except in the case of Nurgle, who has the wonderful habit of making anything that gets either the destroyer hive or zombie virus the guarantee of becoming a plague bearer if they choose to accept their fate.

nurgle: turns me fatter than I already am, makes me vomit when I look at myself and when I die I get to become stinky
tzeench: I get my body parts chopped off and shoved into a blender (resulting in three left arms and half of a right arm)
slaneesh: I get to be emo and hentai mixed together (hentai x OVER 9000)
khorne: I get to kill stuff. lots of stuff. and fluffy puppies. I don't want to kill this: (pic 1)

so no, I would (pic 2)

I'd be taken by Slaanesh. One nod in my direction and I'd be his/hers.

I like the "if it feels good, do it"-attitude.

Although as a close second I do like the paternal caring of Father Nurgle. He's the only likable Chaos God.

 Psienesis wrote:
Mortal servants of Chaos rarely become Daemons. Usually, they just end up dead. Some of them get to be Spawn! One in a trillion might get Daemon Prince.

I believe you are the gent that I discussed Daemons with the other day. XD So you'll probably like this; As I pointed out before, it seems all is destined to return to the warp. Both Loyalist and Traitor alike. That said, the process of creating a daemon comes when the Chaos Gods themselves expend a measure of their power to charge a mortal soul with their Ruinous Energy. So in essence, what you have is a Soul (normal by all means) which is infused with Chaos and then becomes one of the Rank and File for the Gods.

Granted, when this happens, the Daemon created retains very little of the sentience that created it, as said sentience was basically cast into the Endless Wastes, only to be unravelled and stitched back together as a Daemon.

So those followers who die in service of Khorne, invariably do become Bloodletters. Consequently, if you were to run from the service of Khorne and still slain, then you'd be enslaved to his Soul Forges on the Osseus Peak.

Choas is indeed, fickle. +__+

Taken to your point though, it is very reasonable to assume that most "Spirits" cast into the Warp from Death, which are not strong enough one way or the other, or did not exalt a Chaos God, instead become remenants like the Furies...which are TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE (Wtf GW?) TERRIBLE units. NEVER GET A FURY. Even if you think they look cool, DON'T DO IT. BOYCOTT and tell GW to make that bastard at least comparable to a Tyranid Gargle. XD

Not quite. A Daemon is created when the Patron Power takes a mote of its own power and gives it sentience. There's not a requirement for a mortal soul to do that.

The creation of Plaguebearers has indicated that many of them come from the souls of those slain by Nurgle's most-special plagues, which makes some sense, as these Warp-born diseases are as much spiritual as they are physical... and, in this way, Nurgle is able to "steal" souls from other gods. It's a rather unique aspect of the Plague God, in that he can take your soul. regardless of what you believed in life, by giving you one of his plagues. Of course, this may explain the boring existence of a Plaguebearer, just standing around and counting.

This, though, might have changed from the RoC days.

The other gods don't require mortal souls to create daemons, and it is suggested that they reserve Daemonhood as a reward for favored servants, rather than a default state.

Khornate servants, especially, are noted to become nothing more than more skulls for the Skull Throne upon death, and blood for the ocean it floats upon, unless they do something to offend the Blood God and get turned into Spawn or something.

Those slain by his Daemons, likewise, don't end up becoming Khorne's pawns, just more blood and skulls. He's not Arioch. after all.

Daemonettes are like mini-Slaaneshes. Daemons of lust and carnal appetites, perversions of the natural order and the mortal form. Again, becoming one might be a reward for favored servants (or the results of some kind of sorcerous rite) but not the default reward. If you were just kind-of-OK as a servant, but not an exalted champion, but not so terrible that you got Spawned... you're not worthy of immortality. You just get eaten.

The mortal servants of Chaos are striving to prove themselves worthy of the attention of their Patron Power, of proving themselves worthy of the rewards of immortality. Most, however, fail, being that they are just wretched mortals, lacking the skill, strength, cunning and resolve required to achieve the heights of depravity that really interest the Ruinous Powers.

Immortality is a reward, not the default result of the Chaos 401(k).

I think anyone who says chaos has a lure after reading all of the fluff has a slate loose.

I read a short story, I forget which anthology, about a chaos SM who is really sick of it all, but he can't even die because he keeps getting brought back?

Basically chaos is just pure malevolence and loathing, to the point where the Gods even want to piss off their own followers. If you understand that, why would you ever turn to chaos in real life?

They enjoy your pain and suffering, so why would anyone want that?

Well in one of the ciphas cain novels a female psyker following slaanesh became a daemon? Or pseudo daemon(FFG has a gift of the god where you become one and you resemble one of the lesser daemons and instead of dying you are banished it requires a high roll on gift of the gods to get it though) since she is banished when she was killed in the book. Plus a female slave in storm of iron becoming a herald of khorne.

It seemed that khorne was getting annoyed with the iron warrior marine and told her to kill him with a power fist. I think that shows how fickle they are if he picked a female woman to be his champion, well she was kinda badass in the book even the CSM say it.

Lets not forget the male slave in the word bearers novel.

Plus they may have been one of the rare ones plus she is a pskyer. Funny enough its normally the psyker humans in fluff that normally gain favor with the gods. I still agree with Psienesis for a mortal its REALLY hard to gain favor and getting immortality is a reward most chaos servants know they are either going to become one with their god when they die it does not even really seem to bother them going by fluff. As I said before I think the reason why its normally psyker humans is because well psychic powers are strong in 40k depending how strong you are you can take on some of the scarier things in 40k. Along with chaos sorcery that powers you up even more.

 mattyrm wrote:
I think anyone who says chaos has a lure after reading all of the fluff has a slate loose.

I read a short story, I forget which anthology, about a chaos SM who is really sick of it all, but he can't even die because he keeps getting brought back?

Basically chaos is just pure malevolence and loathing, to the point where the Gods even want to piss off their own followers. If you understand that, why would you ever turn to chaos in real life?

They enjoy your pain and suffering, so why would anyone want that?

If chaos god keeps bringing you back to life most likely it means that you are good at bringing them souls and when someone is good at getting them souls they normally don't let them die that easily. Funny enough most chaos servants would kill to have that kind of favor lol most of the heralds typhus etc have something like that.

If Slaneesh's daemonettes took the form of the Norwegian Female Field Hockey Team or the Swedish Bikini Team, I'd be in trouble...

Yes, lots of funky things happen in BL novels. That doesn't mean they're matching studio text. BL is designed to tell a good story, not match what a Codex says, or even previously-published books.

Basically chaos is just pure malevolence and loathing, to the point where the Gods even want to piss off their own followers. If you understand that, why would you ever turn to chaos in real life?

Because, sometimes, you're willing to make that choice to hurt something else even more.

 Psienesis wrote:
Yes, lots of funky things happen in BL novels. That doesn't mean they're matching studio text. BL is designed to tell a good story, not match what a Codex says, or even previously-published books.

Basically chaos is just pure malevolence and loathing, to the point where the Gods even want to piss off their own followers. If you understand that, why would you ever turn to chaos in real life?

Because, sometimes, you're willing to make that choice to hurt something else even more.

And thus the Horus Heresy began.

 mattyrm wrote:

I read a short story, I forget which anthology, about a chaos SM who is really sick of it all, but he can't even die because he keeps getting brought back?

Honor Among Fiends, by Dylan Owen. Heroes of the Space Marines compilation. Nice story.

By the way, I will go undivided. I am unable to pick only one way to corrupt myself. Given that I also enjoy trying to corrupt others and that I feel the compulsion to say the truth if I know it, that means Word Bearers for you.

"All I want is the truth"

 Psienesis wrote:
Not quite. A Daemon is created when the Patron Power takes a mote of its own power and gives it sentience. There's not a requirement for a mortal soul to do that.

The creation of Plaguebearers has indicated that many of them come from the souls of those slain by Nurgle's most-special plagues, which makes some sense, as these Warp-born diseases are as much spiritual as they are physical... and, in this way, Nurgle is able to "steal" souls from other gods. It's a rather unique aspect of the Plague God, in that he can take your soul. regardless of what you believed in life, by giving you one of his plagues. Of course, this may explain the boring existence of a Plaguebearer, just standing around and counting.

This, though, might have changed from the RoC days.

The other gods don't require mortal souls to create daemons, and it is suggested that they reserve Daemonhood as a reward for favored servants, rather than a default state.

Khornate servants, especially, are noted to become nothing more than more skulls for the Skull Throne upon death, and blood for the ocean it floats upon, unless they do something to offend the Blood God and get turned into Spawn or something.

Those slain by his Daemons, likewise, don't end up becoming Khorne's pawns, just more blood and skulls. He's not Arioch. after all.

Daemonettes are like mini-Slaaneshes. Daemons of lust and carnal appetites, perversions of the natural order and the mortal form. Again, becoming one might be a reward for favored servants (or the results of some kind of sorcerous rite) but not the default reward. If you were just kind-of-OK as a servant, but not an exalted champion, but not so terrible that you got Spawned... you're not worthy of immortality. You just get eaten.

The mortal servants of Chaos are striving to prove themselves worthy of the attention of their Patron Power, of proving themselves worthy of the rewards of immortality. Most, however, fail, being that they are just wretched mortals, lacking the skill, strength, cunning and resolve required to achieve the heights of depravity that really interest the Ruinous Powers.

Immortality is a reward, not the default result of the Chaos 401(k).

Firstly, before I dig into the quoted above, I'd like to point out that the Warp is not just Malevolence and Hatred. In fact, it's not even that. It is everything and it is nothing. It is roiling emotion yet completely void of feeling. The Warp is Immaterial, fed by the energy of the living, no matter the Race, it seems. Whether it be Ork, Tyranid, Eldar or Space Marine, all seem affected by the Endless Wastes. So the question I've been kicking around for a few days (because Daemon talk has been popular for a hot minute, and I do love my Daemons Codex) doesn't this mean that Loyalist and Traitor alike are doomed to pour their Life Energy back into the warp when they die? Isn't the Emperor himself also subject to this Law? And if this is the case, then doesn't that make the Warp more real than Real Space, and Real Space is defiant to the reality of the Warp?

It's an interesting point to say the least.

That aside, if the above is correct, then it stands to reason that the Warp, and that which is and sustains the Ruinous Powers and their Infernal Legions, but the substance of the Soul? And so everything that dies is cast into the Warp, spirit and all? So then, from this point, my previously suggested still holds: That spirits cast into the warp, which are given to unraveling in whorls of blank emotion, are instead re-woven in the images of the Ruinous Powers themselves, thus giving birth to the Infernal Legions themselves?

This seems like a cyclical argument, but it really isn't when you consider the mechanics of the Ruinous Powers themselves. Nurgle, doesn't truly exist as the bloated figure of Nurgle. Instead, Nurgle is infact his Manse, Garden and all of his Legion as well. However, Nurgle, like all of the Ruinous Powers, are completely composed of Warp energy. This is why they cannot breach Real Space and why they expend a measure of their power to fuse with Real Space energies (i.e. Souls) in order for the Minions to be able to breach Real Space in their incursions.

Anyone ever watch Soul Eater? For those of you who have, you know the whole deal about Death can't leave his city because he's rooted his spirit to the city, and so if he were to try and leave the city, the whole thing would have to pick itself up and move? This is the same problem the Chaos Gods have, and why they are so adamant about breaching Real Space with Warp Space. Because if Abbadon succeeds on the Crimson Path, Warp Space will forever bleed over, and the Daemon Gods themselves will be able to cross over with the Daemon Primarchs, also largely sustained by warp energy.

While a Plaguebearer may not retain the psyche of Garviel Loken or Tarick Torgaddon, their essence must surely still exist in the warp, even if they have no memory of their original selves in the first place. :O


Two cents.

TheRedWingArmada wrote:

This seems like a cyclical argument, but it really isn't when you consider the mechanics of the Ruinous Powers themselves. Nurgle, doesn't truly exist as the bloated figure of Nurgle. Instead, Nurgle is infact his Manse, Garden and all of his Legion as well. However, Nurgle, like all of the Ruinous Powers, are completely composed of Warp energy. This is why they cannot breach Real Space and why they expend a measure of their power to fuse with Real Space energies (i.e. Souls) in order for the Minions to be able to breach Real Space in their incursions.

Two cents.

While some of that is true, the entities on the warp are "bodies" of consciousness of a level of power. Higher levels of power belong to greater daemons, lesser daemons are the lower levels. The Gods of Chaos are simply extremely high level daemons, with enough energy inside them to affect the universe as we know it.

Each entity is separate, though related to similar entities. An entity can gain power by consuming another entity.

Firstly, before I dig into the quoted above, I'd like to point out that the Warp is not just Malevolence and Hatred. In fact, it's not even that. It is everything and it is nothing. It is roiling emotion yet completely void of feeling. The Warp is Immaterial, fed by the energy of the living, no matter the Race, it seems. Whether it be Ork, Tyranid, Eldar or Space Marine, all seem affected by the Endless Wastes. So the question I've been kicking around for a few days (because Daemon talk has been popular for a hot minute, and I do love my Daemons Codex) doesn't this mean that Loyalist and Traitor alike are doomed to pour their Life Energy back into the warp when they die? Isn't the Emperor himself also subject to this Law? And if this is the case, then doesn't that make the Warp more real than Real Space, and Real Space is defiant to the reality of the Warp?

Correct... sort of. Currently, the Warp is *mostly* malevolence and hatred, because of the events going on in Realspace. It was not always this way, but the events of the last twenty, thirty thousand years have really done a job on the place.

No one is really sure what happens to the souls of Loyalists when they die. It is believed that they join the Emperor in some sort of heaven-like scenario where they are preparing to fight "the last battle" or something, but this is just Ecclesiarchal dogma. Whether the Emperor is subject to sinking back into the Warp is unknown, because whatever his soul is is not anything like anyone else's.

What is and is not "real" is very much a matter of perspective.

That aside, if the above is correct, then it stands to reason that the Warp, and that which is and sustains the Ruinous Powers and their Infernal Legions, but the substance of the Soul? And so everything that dies is cast into the Warp, spirit and all? So then, from this point, my previously suggested still holds: That spirits cast into the warp, which are given to unraveling in whorls of blank emotion, are instead re-woven in the images of the Ruinous Powers themselves, thus giving birth to the Infernal Legions themselves?

Not exactly, no. Eldar souls, for example, can remain in the Warp, conscious and alert, entirely separate from the "background noise" for *very* long periods of time.

Warpstuff is not exactly the same stuff that souls are made out of, though is in some ways similar, but is also defined as the raw stuff of creation, an energy form that contains all possible futures and pasts at once simultaneously. From it can be drawn anything imaginable, and anything that is not, and can be channeled by those who know how to affect alterations in physical space (this is how Sorcerers and Psykers work). The Warp itself, though consciousness can arise from it, is only proto-sentient. It reacts to emotions and thoughts, but does not actually appear to have any itself, only to reflect that which is predominant being fed into it.

The many "gods" of Chaos (and there are far more than just the Great Four) simply coalesce out of the raw stuff of the Warp when sufficient thoughts and feelings congregate within the Immaterium and clump together into a sentient thought-form. This is how you get your Zuvassins, your Necohos, your Cherubaels, your Prophantiis, your super-powerful, unaligned Daemons, your Malals. Whether or not they need some kind of mortal souls to be this "ignition energy" is simply not stated. Given the strangeness of certain Ruinous Powers, I don't believe this to be the case, though.

As far as their appearances go, we actually don't know if they exist as these forms within their realms in the Warp, or if this is just avatars they choose to appear as to their followers, though it is known that they can change this appearance to suit them.

The realms of the gods, such as Nurgle's garden or Tzeentch's maze, seem to be less parts of the god-form itself, and more the Warp surrounding it being aligned to its particular portfolio. It is said that the Brass Throne of Khorne sits atop a mountainous pile of skulls and bones amidst a lake of blood, bordered by vast, tractless wastes upon which his daemonic servants wage endless and unceasing war. While I am sure that Nurgle can reshape the appearance of his gardens, I believe that, were he to "die", somehow, the gardens would exist for a time, until the various emotions and things that comprise Nurgle's spheres of influence fade out into the "neutral" background noise of the Warp.

Of course, it is also mentioned that there are many kinds of "warp-predators" in the Immaterium, and that these things are more likely to damage or destroy ships in transit through the Warp, rather than any daemons aligned to a Chaos God.

The Enslavers are another example of a "race" of creatures that dwell in the Warp but are not daemons, nor aligned with any particular Chaos God.

I would apply to the Inquisition, therefore I am beyond temptation except what I need to keep humanity pure.... I can resist anything but temptation.
Changer of the ways or slaanesh ( As I have definitely got excessive Citadel minis and so many random armies)

Corporal_Chaos wrote:
I would apply to the Inquisition, therefore I am beyond temptation except what I need to keep humanity pure.... I can resist anything but temptation.
Changer of the ways or slaanesh ( As I have definitely got excessive Citadel minis and so many random armies)

Radical Inquisitors are a thing. Inquisitors "cross the line" all the time. Of all of humanity's servants, they are probably the ones most often tempted.

Unless the ruinous powers recruit their worshippers with the subtlety of a sledgehammer (Khorne's Witnesses, bashing in your door and telling you about the "Good News" is probbaly one of the less successful efforts), it is downright impossible to say how anyone would react in the face of temptation.

I will keep my answer to both you's guy's short, because I'd have to quote the Codex which is currently out of reach at the moment, and say that I agree with you both, and there is more. The interweaving that takes place between Warp Space and Real Space is very much important to understanding the Daemons themselves, but more importantly, to understanding their goals and how and why they can unite to further the Warp.

It's because of this relationship which, to me, hints at an even Greater and dominating presence which simply is Warp, that I created my Red Wing Armada.

The sentience that is lost when thought to be blasted into oblivion, which exists at Oblivions very heart. It is darkness cast a shadow onto darkness itself. It is reflection of reflection. It is where the Lost are ultimately Found, no matter their relationship or faction and they serve only one great purpose unknown to even the likes of Tzeentch and his brood. Here there is both Emperor and Warmaster. Brother and Soldier. Man and Xenos alike. All serving the Heart of the Warp. +__+

<__<; At least that was my great idea. lol

I would never. My will is unbreakable, my discipline superior. The Chaos gods would get exhausted attempting to corrupt me. I'd corrupt them.

 Psienesis wrote:
Yes, lots of funky things happen in BL novels. That doesn't mean they're matching studio text. BL is designed to tell a good story, not match what a Codex says, or even previously-published books.

Basically chaos is just pure malevolence and loathing, to the point where the Gods even want to piss off their own followers. If you understand that, why would you ever turn to chaos in real life?

Because, sometimes, you're willing to make that choice to hurt something else even more.

Or probably a strangely common reason would be the basic human emotion of love......if your wife was about to be slain by gang members and per se you were one of the few Imperial Guard retirees wouldnt you use your knowledge of Khorne's blessings to try and gain his favor to save them.

How about nurgle, lets say you are a low class hivemember, and a sickness strikes you (the sole provider for the family), and you have heard about a group that makes it possible to live through the worst of diseases, would you take it? How about if it was your family that was struck down with this plague.

Granted Slaanesh and tzeentch are probably chosen for a bit more selfish of reasons.


Heck....imagine if Dresden (from the Dresden files) was in 40k, EDIT: SERIOUSLY IF YOU HAVE NOT READ BOOK 13 DO NOT READ THE SPOILER!!!!

Honestly I would not likely fall to any of them as I am not extreme enough in any temperment to "ping the radar" of the chaos gods to be frank.

The only one I would really have a chance at falling too would be Slaanesh... and not for being a pervert. (though I do not deny that I can be one) More for the striving for perfection aspects. But even there I do not seek out the extremes in it.

I would more likely end up in the Inquisition as an acolyte, and possibly an inquisitor later on, or as part of the adeptus mechanicus. (The cult mechanicus calls to me with the cant of the pure code... I could never fall for the false desecration of the scrap code and the violation of the laws of science and the machine that the dark mechanicus utilizes... it just is abhorant to me.)

*chuckle* guess I would end up in the adeptus mechanicus' version of the inquisition.

sekerra wrote:
Honestly I would not likely fall to any of them as I am not extreme enough in any temperment to "ping the radar" of the chaos gods to be frank.

The only one I would really have a chance at falling too would be Slaanesh... and not for being a pervert. (though I do not deny that I can be one) More for the striving for perfection aspects. But even there I do not seek out the extremes in it.

I would more likely end up in the Inquisition as an acolyte, and possibly an inquisitor later on, or as part of the adeptus mechanicus. (The cult mechanicus calls to me with the cant of the pure code... I could never fall for the false desecration of the scrap code and the violation of the laws of science and the machine that the dark mechanicus utilizes... it just is abhorant to me.)

*chuckle* guess I would end up in the adeptus mechanicus' version of the inquisition.

*Turns out the Omnissiah is a chaos god too*

Nope, C'tan, not Chaos God

Nope not a chaos god... the Omnissiah is pretty much the exact opposite of a chaos god... pure order... As IHateNids said, more likely a C'tan.

Whole reason I could not go to the Dark Mechanicus is the warping and destroying of the pure code to make scrapcode and the violation of the natural laws that they do... *shudder*