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 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
I disagree that is the intended way to play the Skyshield as it would grant a cover save from the walls to models on the landing pad when the shield should be unfurled and granting clear line of sight.

Citation needed, because I do not see any rules that govern moving the terrain after the game starts.

Wait you want him to cite a rule to back up what he thinks is RAI?

Yep that's what he asked haha, I'm just amazed he thinks he could get away with this nonsense in a real game, it seems to me he is trying to justify this stupidity with raw nonsense, pure raw doesn't work it creates this exact kind of nonsense and is why pure raw should never be used, little rai and raw and a whole heap of common sense is what's needed to play this game and I'm seeing non of the common sense in regards to this.

I play it as not movable because the rules do not mention that the terrain moves.

I have not run into an opponent that thought that you could alter the terrain feature after the game started.

Moving the terrain after the game starts is a completely foreign concept to me.

 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
I disagree that is the intended way to play the Skyshield as it would grant a cover save from the walls to models on the landing pad when the shield should be unfurled and granting clear line of sight.

Citation needed, because I do not see any rules that govern moving the terrain after the game starts.

Wait you want him to cite a rule to back up what he thinks is RAI?

If he was going on RAI, I completely missed that.

of course there is no way to back up RAI, but RAI is easily dismissed because we have no idea what the game designers intended.

OP here, Having played games for over 30 years against all personality types i would say the following.

1 The RAW do not allow for terrain to be modified mid game, If I were to be playing against an opponent that was dead set in following that rule, I would deploy my SSLP with the flaps up, as that would be most advantageous to me.

2 If I were playing against an opponent that wanted to use a SSLP I would expect a small amount of common sense and sportsmanship and play with the expectation that the flaps were to be moved depending on the "configuration". If my opponent using the SSLP were to be a RAW TFG then I would find someone else to play against.

This game already has to many poorly written &/or broken rules no need to add to the mess.

I am a long time veteran that gets called upon in our gaming community when a new-ish player starts rules lawyering for advantage or starts making horribly oppressive spam lists. I have a tremendous innate ability to outdo a TFG at there own game when they start getting out of hand with that type of shenanigans. Combined with a army collection/horde that has grown for the last 20 years to really take advantage of 2nd ed small models hiding in terrain and other RAW legal douchebaggery

theunicorn wrote:
OP here, Having played games for over 30 years against all personality types i would say the following.

1 The RAW do not allow for terrain to be modified mid game, If I were to be playing against an opponent that was dead set in following that rule, I would deploy my SSLP with the flaps up, as that would be most advantageous to me.

Sounds fair, since that is the RAW.

2 If I were playing against an opponent that wanted to use a SSLP I would expect a small amount of common sense and sportsmanship and play with the expectation that the flaps were to be moved depending on the "configuration". If my opponent using the SSLP were to be a RAW TFG then I would find someone else to play against.

1. Real World Common sense/Real World Logic/how it works in the real world has no bearing on the 40k Ruleset.

2. Wait, so you would play it RAW if you were using a Skyshield and your opponent "was dead set in following that rule", but your opponent is a " RAW TFG" if he wants to use a skyshield and follow the RAW? and you would "find someone else to play against" Double standard much...

This game already has to many poorly written &/or broken rules no need to add to the mess.

The Fortification rules already add to the mess, this is not a function of the players doing this, the whole of the fortification rules are poorly thought out and do not quite mesh with the rest of the ruleset.

I am a long time veteran that gets called upon in our gaming community when a new-ish player starts rules lawyering for advantage or starts making horribly oppressive spam lists. I have a tremendous innate ability to outdo a TFG at there own game when they start getting out of hand with that type of shenanigans. Combined with a army collection/horde that has grown for the last 20 years to really take advantage of 2nd ed small models hiding in terrain and other RAW legal douchebaggery

So following the RAW is "douchebaggery"?

We need to follow the RAW as close as possible to play the game everyone else is playing. Some things need provisions (like models without eyes being useless as thay can not shoot or declare an assault), but other things work just fine without making whole units useless (Like the Skyshileds configuration rules).

Why change something that is not broken, and why call something "RAW legal douchebaggery" when clearly there is no basis for it.

The double standard issue. I would prefer to play reasonable opponents that are enjoyable to spend time with.

If one were to insist that I could not change the flaps on my SSLP I would point out how that was greatly in my favor and be sure that they understood how I would benefit from that decision. I do not need that advantage, nor do I want it.

If they were bringing there own SSLP and wanted to abuse a cover save with the flaps always up I would explain the disadvantage that it causes the opponent. If they were to insist on RAW, I would insist on finding a new opponent.

Penalizing yourself with RAW idiocy is fine by me, trying to gain an undue advantage with RAW douchebaggery is classic WAAC / TFG and I can find better ways to entertain myself.

Reasonable is fine, but to make up rules out of thin air because that is the way you think the rules should be, it not okay.

The simple answer is if your skysheild is "furled" or shielded your units obscured by the wall would have a 4+ cover save. To which things such as space marines camo cloaks could apply giving you a 3+. I had a lengthy debate on two separate threads as to weather a mark of tzeench can increase your invulnerable save to a 3++ and the consensus is that yes it does so I can't see why you wouldn't be able to the same thing(possibly better because shrouded and stealth can stack to a max of 2+) with either tyranids or eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But that's assuming you're playing a friendly game. If you were going to a tournament you should get with the tournament director before sign up, show him your list, describe in detail how you think a the skysheild should work and once you hear his ruling decide weather or not you wish to participate.

Remember at the end of the day house rules really are what 40k is about. Yes there are plenty of standard rules ect. But since gw doesn't make a complete comprehensive set of terrain to which they assign specific rules there is no one right answer. And even when they try for things such as the skysheild and aegis defense lines there are still serious questions that they either sidestep or never address. In either case it is left up to the players to decide ultimately what is allowed and what is not. So have fething fun and don't be a dick. And if the people you're playing with are being dickheads then find new people to play with. Because there are players out there who aren't completely ridiculous and I hate to see a good game ruined for them.

Seriously? You can move the sides up and down, but you have to pretend they're up or down rather than move them? That has to be the pettiest rules nit-picking I have ever come across. You should be very proud of yourself... [slow claps on way out door]

ted1138 wrote:
Seriously? You can move the sides up and down, but you have to pretend they're up or down rather than move them?

You can not move the sides up and down once the terrain is on the field as there are no rules that allow you to do so.

Why would you "pretend they're up or down"?

if they are up they are up, if they are down they are down. This has nothing to do with the Shielded or Unfurled rules that accompany the Skyshield.

That has to be the pettiest rules nit-picking I have ever come across. You should be very proud of yourself... [slow claps on way out door]

I was simply alerting people to what the rules say. (Though you didn't need to be so rude).

I believe the pure RAW for the SSLD is that the model itself has to physical change the configuration, as it gives the player no permission to do anything. However, this is not very productive to playing the game and not how I would play it.

"if they are up they are up, if they are down they are down. This has nothing to do with the Shielded or Unfurled rules that accompany the Skyshield."


This is what's wrong with gaming. People who know all the rules, but haven't the wits to use them.

ted1138 wrote:
"if they are up they are up, if they are down they are down. This has nothing to do with the Shielded or Unfurled rules that accompany the Skyshield."

This is what's wrong with gaming. People who know all the rules, but haven't the wits to use them.

Please follow the forums rules. Especially Rule #1. Thanks!

My statement is true. I have not found anything in the Skyshield's rules that says to physically move the terrain piece.

Since this is a permissive ruleset we need permission to do something before we can do it. We do not have permission to move the terrain after it has been placed.