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Longtime Dakkanaut




Comes across as being a strong carbon copy of Game of Thrones to be completely honest.

The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
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Chicago, Illinois

 trexmeyer wrote:
Comes across as being a strong carbon copy of Game of Thrones to be completely honest.

Its an early draft. It will slowly come to something of its own when I have gone through it. I come up with an idea and use elements from other stories, and slowly develop it into something else. Over time they will become something very different.

Currently the people that follow them follow them not because of their house, but because of debt, who they owe a favor, who is the most trustworthy. There are not other castles, the major houses have castles and thats about it. The rest is villages, towns, and cities. Anyone carrying the title lord is not very common. Sir is common, it just means you are apart of the Knighthood of Meroth, (they are the elite of Meroth's Military. When a single house is invaded the entire kingdom acts as one, all houses come together to fight with each other side by side. After the threat is dealt with they come back together. Think of the greek city states but owned a much larger amount of land. The land in Meroth constantly fluctuates between lords.)

Its very much a creation of my own. The idea may be similar but there are lots of differences. Which I will get to soon.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/22 00:38:40


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





 trexmeyer wrote:
Comes across as being a strong carbon copy of Game of Thrones to be completely honest.



I agree here... One thing that could separate you some would be having the current king, since he's weak, be an absolute prudish puritan type... Spends all his time, and what fortune the family did have on religious pursuits as opposed to wine/women.
   
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Chicago, Illinois

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 trexmeyer wrote:
Comes across as being a strong carbon copy of Game of Thrones to be completely honest.



I agree here... One thing that could separate you some would be having the current king, since he's weak, be an absolute prudish puritan type... Spends all his time, and what fortune the family did have on religious pursuits as opposed to wine/women.


He's more of the I don't care type. The First chapter, You find out no one actually follows the king, he's kind of just there. No one wants to be king of Meroth. Its more of a figure head in the world. As the lords do all of the work.

But yeah I will take that into consideration.

AS currently I am just starting to write the world. And I have the houses merely as just there, they are a cool addition but not the main focus of the entire story.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated first page:

Currently figuring out plot lines, Character details, etc.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/07/22 14:18:35


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Much like Feudal France actually. The king has almost no real power, its little more than a fancy title and everyone knows it.


As for population, it depends.

You should consider food supply when determining population. What areas have the most food resources, and remember that Arable land is going to be a hot commodity and point of contention among the nobles.

Flood pains are where you'd have the most fertile farmland, and any place along rivers. Areas which are normally dry but water can be easily diverted would also be areas of intense food production. Also consider mountains and their rain shadows.

Looking at your maps, it appears that Morbin, Lorish, and Alens on the western map and the area of Verus on the Eastern side would be the most fertile.

Meroth itself actually seems like it would be a fairly arid place given the placement of the mountains. The entire kingdom would be in the rainshadow of the various mountain ranges, unless the prevailing winds come from the south. Which would require that the southern forests around Taeld be at lower elevations than the northern areas.

Central Meroth does have that large river flowing down to that bay. The areas around that would have greater farmland, and thus population.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Grey Templar wrote:
Much like Feudal France actually. The king has almost no real power, its little more than a fancy title and everyone knows it.


As for population, it depends.

You should consider food supply when determining population. What areas have the most food resources, and remember that Arable land is going to be a hot commodity and point of contention among the nobles.

Flood pains are where you'd have the most fertile farmland, and any place along rivers. Areas which are normally dry but water can be easily diverted would also be areas of intense food production. Also consider mountains and their rain shadows.

Looking at your maps, it appears that Morbin, Lorish, and Alens on the western map and the area of Verus on the Eastern side would be the most fertile.

Meroth itself actually seems like it would be a fairly arid place given the placement of the mountains. The entire kingdom would be in the rainshadow of the various mountain ranges, unless the prevailing winds come from the south. Which would require that the southern forests around Taeld be at lower elevations than the northern areas.

Central Meroth does have that large river flowing down to that bay. The areas around that would have greater farmland, and thus population.


Yep basically how I planned it out to be. As the cold air comes from the south, and the warm air comes from the east and the north, The western half is more arid than the eastern half. The Eastern half has more forests and lush places.

But I decided the population was around a million.

The major houses all have access to plains and river systems.

And yeah the mountains were actually a mistake they were suppose to be on the other side and act as a natural border between it and the western side of the continent.

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Just to clarify, do you mean 1 million for the entire continent or just the kingdom of Meroth?

Can I get a sense of scale again please. How big are these areas roughly. That would help for population estimation.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Grey Templar wrote:
Just to clarify, do you mean 1 million for the entire continent or just the kingdom of Meroth?

Can I get a sense of scale again please. How big are these areas roughly. That would help for population estimation.


Meroth has a million people. The entire continent I have no idea.

Meroth is the Size of Texas roughly.

The Continent is a super continent.

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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Ok, thats all reasonable then.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Keep in mind that at its absolute peak, ancient Rome was home to about 1,000,000 people and they had to port in food from Egypt, to feed the city. The typical ancient city could probably only support 100,000 tops. In the middle ages London was a city at 95,000.

Ancient China had a large population as a region. 57,000,000 during the Han Dynasty's peak (by the start of the Jin Dynasty that number was as low as 14,000,000 from a century of war and famine). In ancient times, a huge population could sustain itself with a capable agricultural infrastructure. One hiccup though, and that population drops like a rock. Much of the population decline during the Three Kingdoms era wasn't just starvation or war either. No food? High chance of getting pillaged? People tended to move on out to somewhere with more food and less pillaging China did not recover from this until the Tang Dynasty 300 years later!

Food for thought Such drastic losses in population and the struggles of feeding an overbearing population tends to shape cultures.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/22 20:53:46


   
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Chicago, Illinois

 Grey Templar wrote:
Ok, thats all reasonable then.


I thought it was too large, and too big of a scope, but it was mainly to capitalize on the fact that very few fantasy kingdoms had that big of a scope.

Anyway thanks for the feedback.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LordofHats wrote:
Keep in mind that at its absolute peak, ancient Rome was home to about 1,000,000 people and they had to port in food from Egypt, to feed the city. The typical ancient city could probably only support 100,000 tops. In the middle ages London was a city at 95,000.

Ancient China had a large population as a region. 57,000,000 during the Han Dynasty's peak (by the start of the Jin Dynasty that number was as low as 14,000,000 from a century of war and famine). In ancient times, a huge population could sustain itself with a capable agricultural infrastructure. One hiccup though, and that population drops like a rock. Much of the population decline during the Three Kingdoms era wasn't just starvation or war either. No food? High chance of getting pillaged? People tended to move on out to somewhere with more food and less pillaging China did not recover from this until the Tang Dynasty 300 years later!

Food for thought Such drastic losses in population and the struggles of feeding an overbearing population tends to shape cultures.


interesting. I will look into it. But ever since this right before the renniassance and there is no development of gunpowder on the planet except for a single place. (Glasgith are known to have warriors made out of pure steel and are run by powerful steam engines)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/22 20:58:00


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Indeed.

If we are assuming a thousand years have passed since a cataclysmic event, we could assume that things have pretty much recovered at that point.

So you could have a much larger population in Meroth, if they had a source of food.

Remember in mild areas you could have several harvests a year, and in sufficiently temperate areas you could theoretically have continuous harvesting of various crops(using rotations)

The biggest limitation with food isn't producing it, its transporting it. Especially before artificial refrigeration. Most people's diet would consist of grains(which are easily stored) and any locally produced vegetables. The only food suitable for long distance transport would be grains, preserved foods, and livestock transported while its alive.

So in the off-season, people would eat mostly grains, a little salted meat, and possibly fish(year-round if near a suitable body of water that doesn't freeze)


Nutrition will also have a direct effect on the people in the local area. People with a diet higher in protein will be taller and more heavily muscled(but populations will be lower) while agrarian based societies will have more people but because they have less protein they'll be shorter. Calcium in the diet also will have an effect(how much dairy is available)

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed.

If we are assuming a thousand years have passed since a cataclysmic event, we could assume that things have pretty much recovered at that point.

So you could have a much larger population in Meroth, if they had a source of food.

Remember in mild areas you could have several harvests a year, and in sufficiently temperate areas you could theoretically have continuous harvesting of various crops(using rotations)

The biggest limitation with food isn't producing it, its transporting it. Especially before artificial refrigeration. Most people's diet would consist of grains(which are easily stored) and any locally produced vegetables. The only food suitable for long distance transport would be grains, preserved foods, and livestock transported while its alive.

So in the off-season, people would eat mostly grains, a little salted meat, and possibly fish(year-round if near a suitable body of water that doesn't freeze)


Nutrition will also have a direct effect on the people in the local area. People with a diet higher in protein will be taller and more heavily muscled(but populations will be lower) while agrarian based societies will have more people but because they have less protein they'll be shorter. Calcium in the diet also will have an effect(how much dairy is available)


They can still see ruins of the ancient society, and many of the world is built on the remains of the old world.

And I will look at that. And see what part produces more and what doesn't.

But I will continue to think of a way to use a borderline personality character. Actually I have a question about this how would I write a borderline personality person?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/22 21:27:25


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
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Chicago, Illinois

Hey everyone I am back,

And I still have unanswered questions currently are....

Would elaborating on more of the history help me write the book better?

How are the houses? (There are more of them, but these are the major players) Should I expand on it? Should I add to it?

How is my description of the Revenants (on this page)?

Should I add creatures into the stories? So I progress through and show the world and what is going on.

Should the book be more about the Revenants or the Houses? Or should the Revenants be the big bad guys in the end? (I am struggling as currently the big bad guys are the Revenants and they play a more active part as the book progresses, but early on they play very little of a party..)

Also how big of a role should magic be? (Currently the entirety of the Western Continent Magic is widely used, but the eastern continent magic is almost non existent)

Should magic be very powerful and dangerous?

Should I have Mercenary Forces to add variety to the houses?

Should the main Character be active in the houses, or should he be off on his own trying to train for an upcoming war? Or should I focus on his older sister who is the Defacto Leader, after Wymond leaves to gather his man at arms?


If you guys could tell me what you think, that would help me out a bunch. As I plan on starting on my 40k lore. By kicking the restart button.

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in gb
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To be honest, most of those things sound like questions only you can answer. You know the plot and know the setting and the characters, so you know better than us what needs elaborating on.

In general, though, as I appreciate the above is probably unhelpful, it's worth building the world as much as you can, even if most of that doesn't make it into the book. Look at Tolkien. There's far more to Middle Earth than ever made it into the novels themselves, but all of it helped shape the world in which the stories take place. So I say do as much as you can to set up the world, even if you don't use half of it. Having a clear idea where/what/who/why things are will help with the writing, even just at the level of being able to 'see' where you're going more clearly.

 
   
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Chicago, Illinois

 Paradigm wrote:
To be honest, most of those things sound like questions only you can answer. You know the plot and know the setting and the characters, so you know better than us what needs elaborating on.

In general, though, as I appreciate the above is probably unhelpful, it's worth building the world as much as you can, even if most of that doesn't make it into the book. Look at Tolkien. There's far more to Middle Earth than ever made it into the novels themselves, but all of it helped shape the world in which the stories take place. So I say do as much as you can to set up the world, even if you don't use half of it. Having a clear idea where/what/who/why things are will help with the writing, even just at the level of being able to 'see' where you're going more clearly.


Oh yeah there are tons of things going on that I will never ever talk about sadly.

But Some of them I need readers to prove to me that my work is well readable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/28 01:14:28


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.




Questions:

How big of a population (From the maps I've provided.) Would Meroth have? (I was guessing around a million or so)


We need to know the size of Meroth first.

It will help to take a quick look at medieval demographics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_demography

As rule of thumb a population of a quarter of a million or more can make a full medieval feudal kingdom, any less and you are looking at an extended city state. Any empire with a population over thirty million or so is truly vast.

However you may need to be asking the right questions.

- How suitable is Meroth for agriculture?
- What agricultural technology do they have? Do they have water or wind mills, do they have magic assisted mills?
- Is society feudal?
- Is the land plague or war racked?

All in all the population is not too relevant, The French outnumbered the English about five to one during their wars, and were defending territory against an opponent whose main power base was overseas. it did not matter as the peasantry did not generally fight. What really matters are the size of cities and the number of knights you have, also the size of the merchant and priestly castes.


Would elaborating on more of the history help me write the book better?

Most successful fantasy or SF writers create copious notes and short form histories before handlign the main story. It will help for consistency.
As a rule of thumb the first thing you should start with is the religion, gods, creation myth and origin stories.
Then look at broad histories of the various states, human migrations etc.

This deserves some elaboration.
1. First do your origin myth and write up your theology. You could choose to have no gods, a single god, a pantheon or myriad gods.
2. Next look at the orgins of humans and any other races. Where did they come from both in actuality and where people think they came from.
3. Then plot out the broad histories of your map, start with the earliest empires and work forwards. If the ancient empires get too many and too irrelevant just number them, you can name them later. This helps as it will give indication of where there will be ancient ruins and how old they are.
4. When you get to the founding of the first existing realm you have moved from ancient history to history. From this point on you need a bit more detail.
5. When you get to the founding of the main realms of your storyline such as Meroth you need even more detail. Make up some old folk tales, just reuse real ones, most human societies do either by plagiarism or simply because noteworthy events often occur once or more than once per civilisation. For example there are numerous real independent folk tales which all carry the same plot as 'the boy who cried wolf'.
6. Finally when you get to the last three generations you have modern history. This is important also from here on in look at individual rulers and their personalities in greater detail, peoples memories go back this far, and little further. Though major events, mostly negative ones can be remembered far longer.

At the end of this it will all flow, the history will dictate your politics. Someone of a specific race or ruler will react to people of differing backgrounds based on historical ties, positive and negative. Truly noteworthy people overcome these limitation.

How are the houses? (There are more of them, but these are the major players) Should I expand on it? Should I add to it?

Generic fantasy, nothing special. While people can and will say its a Game of Thrones knockoff medieval fantasy is no less your than GRRMartins.

Take a good look at your heraldry though, you need not follow the rules of heraldry but it helps to be aware of them as most had practical origins.

A house sigil needs to be simple enough to fit on noble shields and commoners alike. So the more important the house the simper the sigil, or the house would have a simpler division of a sigil.
House Justine's sigil is simple enough, peasant militia would paint a simple cross on a blue/black shield (assuming your stars are against a night.
House Litor's sigil is more difficult. Dop you have perspective art? As yopur description assumes so, medieval art would show say a wolf rampant under a crescent moon or other. The 'classic' fantasy image of the wolf and moon sillouette is not only done to death but it wouldnt fit the mindset of a medieval artist.
Thats not the main problem though, medieval heraldry is there for field recognition and is therefore stylised, the rules of heraldry dictate which colours go on which so that the symbols are visible from shields and standards.
As fro House Moric how do you represent this sigil outside of a tower shield, such as on a pennant? A flaming sword probably wants a dark background which would represent a 'tower shield'.
You don't have to follow any of the rules of heraldry but its pays to look at them. Also take into account that if houses merge sigils might change, in some backgrounds a new sigil is chosen, in others the shield is divided and bnoth house sigiols are incorporated. If the latter occurs then heraldry may in time get quite messy, but messy quarters abnd requarttered heraldry is the sign of a nobility more interested in geneological iconography than field recognition, such as modern European nobility.
Most houses have a simpler flag to fall back on for actual use

How is my description of the Revenants (on this page)?

Should I add creatures into the stories? So I progress through and show the world and what is going on.

Should the book be more about the Revenants or the Houses? Or should the Revenants be the big bad guys in the end? (I am struggling as currently the big bad guys are the Revenants and they play a more active part as the book progresses, but early on they play very little of a party..)


Didnt find it.

Also how big of a role should magic be? (Currently the entirety of the Western Continent Magic is widely used, but the eastern continent magic is almost non existent)

Make a choice, its common rare or very rare.

COMMON If its common then it becomes part of the economy, in fact it will be inseparable from the economy. A spell to sharpen swords is useful, but the same spell will be of greater use sharpening ploughs.
Most magicians will try to find work in communications, business
Other than the Harry Potter series this side of magic is largely overlooked, the most important magic will be that that makes life easier or gains revenue.
Magical non proliferation (though not by that name!) will be an important issue.

RARE If rare wizards are either hunted, or politicised. Rare magic usually indicates that magic is a gift that most simply have absolutely no talent in, or that the availability of sxources of magical power are poorly distributed.
If the former finding magically gifted people will be important work, either to put them to death or to recruit them as assets, dependent on the culture and politics of the society involved.
In the latter case magic generating items/zones/nodes/faith will be jealously horded, this setting has more liberty for the plot and implies that anyone in the know can qwork a tiny amount of magic, but only those with access to inner power can gain true might.

VERY RARE Both above conditions, it would make sense to assume that assassination will be a common ploy for dealing with gifted rivals, and wars may be fought over sources of magic power. This all depends on how transferable power is.

Should magic be very powerful and dangerous?

Yes, but avoid D&D like spell lists. Generic fantasy RPG spells have their place but should be rare or limited.

Please note that the greatest asset of a court wizard is his wise counsel. This might not apply if your magic system is purely based on gift and some precocious teen happens to be the most uber mage.

As for the spells themselves, in medival society life is cheap, but people tended to have a high regard for their souls. A wizards power to curse or damn would be far more frightening than anything else they could cast. This fear may permeatve even if the wizards actually lack that ability.
You will have to decide what influence faith has on magic.
Also note that its much easier to cast a death spell than a fireball in terms of magical mechanics.
Raising the dead should be rare or restricted, and you should have an answer for what the raised person experienced while dead, such answers will have a large effect on religion.
Also look at how much healing is available.
Can magic cure plagues? For a lucky storied individua? for those who can afford it, or have the faith? for all?

Note that many minor and innocuous spells are plot enders. Firerballs may look impressive but the ability to separate truth from falsehood is invaluable, so long as the magician can be themselves entrusted.

Also magic effects everything else.
Got telepathy, teleportation, dream messaging etc? Then you have a medieval society with at least one foot in the information age.
Got fireballs and lighting bolts? Then infantry combat will be 20th century, trench warfare rather than massed ranks.
Got charm or illusion spells? Even if rare they will completely change society, the paranoia, the fear... You can do far more damage by deceiving a group of people than you can by fireballing them.

You have to think of limiters to all of these, and wizards are rare is not a good one. For a start they crop up more often than perople assume unless magic is truly mythic. Magic must haver consequences and limitations,. some of limitations should be commonplace.

Should I have Mercenary Forces to add variety to the houses?

Yes. Mercenraiers are needed in any pre industrial society, unless you are fighting a holy war and can recruit the populace en masse. Noble houses tended to have small livery armies because there is a practical limit to the number of personal retainers a noble can have, barbarian hordes are an exception to this.
Nobles can recruit peasants but that tends not to be a good idea, it hurts the economiy, and raises troops of dubiouis value and loyalty. Better to have aschultz or fyrd system where a village has a token armsman or two who can be called by the lord/king. This may not be the case in a feudal society as a fuiekldal as opposed to a dark age political system is more unforgiving. Howeever feudalism instead provides knights, who are a bit like the fyrd really, except at a different and distinct social strata.
All in all between the nobles retinue, the knights and retainers thay can call upon masy not be enough and usually is not. So mercenaries are hired.

Be aware of the concept of a pensioner. We today think of pensioners as retired old people, in medieval times there was no pension, old people starved worked until they dropped or had family to look after them. To a person who had a 'pension' that bypassed that worry. Pensions were given out sparingly as it commited a person to life long care of the recipient, only the richest lords, could issue pensions, normally only kings. Though religious groups would have an equivalent Some pensioners were administrators, but most were elite warriors.
Meroth will have pensioners, they may not be known by that name but the concerpt will be there. Because the questions will have been asked. Usually along the lines of 'I am mighyy but have no family, what happens to me when I am old and can no longer wield my axe'.

Should the main Character be active in the houses, or should he be off on his own trying to train for an upcoming war? Or should I focus on his older sister who is the Defacto Leader, after Wymond leaves to gather his man at arms?

Nobles will alwys be active. Unless your noble house is really fractious and vicious and is totally unscrupulous and self destructive. Please note that noble houses that stab each other in the back dont actually last long. Some houses have that rfep but in acrtuallity will have a semblance of house loyalty. This need not apply in Orientalism (which historically means arabs not chinese). Arabian nights type backgrounds or those that follow that culture may indeed be totally ruthless brother against brother, but then you wont have noble houses just just have individual nobles and lineages. Noble lineage doesnt mean much beyond eligibility, and eligibility comes from proving you are part of the race, not special lineage from any particular line.
These societies can be more dynamic and tend to lead to more competent leadership than the European or Japanese pattern noble dynasty.

So basically if you have 'houses' then even in cases like the Borgias you will have an us and them mentality. There may be infighting, but the house is united against the inside.
Your main character will have the 'trust' of the suister, betrayal can happen but is totally frowned upon by all houses as a house divided cannot stand. As a rule once somoene is in power in the house the rest follow or at least get out of the way and remain loyal. Any other option leads to ruin. Noble houses work well because they are a geneoklogical obligation, if the nobles bicker and the house loses then generations of progress is dfor nothing, so the first priority of a noble will be to maintain the power of the house.
This means that even if the characters are evil, main character and older sister will to some extent have each others back. This has to be as other rival houses are always looking for the advantage. The more established the noble system the stronger this bond will be. If the noble houses are components of a larger realm or empire then the system will denegrate into decadence, but individual noble houses in rivalry will remain strong.

Also note that unless there is a pressing reason to do so if a house has a weak ruler it will only be taken advantage of up to a point, the house itself and its core lands will remain, otherb houses will ensure this, because human weakness is inevitable over time and next generation it might be their turn. Also a rival house is good marriage stock and is an extra banner to raise if a barbarian horde threatens them all. Even if dynastic nobles are trying to kill each other over generations they will have some rules and cross loyalty at an elementary level in order to preserve the dynastic system.

Your realms may and will indeed vary, but if you look at the realpolitic you have to make one of three choices.
- Nobles try anything to get ahead, this may indeed involved backstabbing brothers. Lands are ruled by rutheless competent men, its are to have an ineffictive ruler because the weak do not survive.
Dynastic houses are rare as no house lasts longer than its first weak ruler, historically this means that non retainer lords last about three generations before the house is extinguised and replaced. (Middle eastern system)
- Nobles are in it for the long term, individuals can be very greedy, but education, culture history and all the other houses will expeunge the one who breaks the way of life. Dynastic houses going back centuries thrive, they are bitter rivals but only press each other up to a point. All or almost all are linked by blood somewhere. (Northern European system)
- Blends the two, and makes for very interesting politics. Such a blending can only really work if you diversify power, normally to city states, and external threat to unify if needed and a very strong central religion or other permenant institution that can survive the short term views of the nobility. (Southern European system)

How are the maps? Should I use a program to make them more accurate? (No duh I will when the book is ready to be released)

Avoid the classic fantasy authors mistake of making the map to fit the page.

GRRMartin made that mistake with Westeros and it shows. Tolkien made beautiful maps but the maps did not truly fit the page, it was less packaged as a result even if the story covered the map and little beyond it.

Also do the topography and climatology first then add the political borders, exceptions for realms that 'grow' their own mountains like Mordor.

Start with coastline, mountains rivers and forests, hills are important but hills can be anywhere, mountains ad rivers have a general pattern to them. One trick is to take a real topographical map or two and then tweak it, if you take a real map remove obvious recognisable features and dont show them north side up you can have a fantasy map that makes sense and wont be recognised for what it is.

Its a good exercise. Take say the Amazon basin, rescale it so that its the size of France, make it from north-south and change the coastline. Chop and change it a bit so that while it makes geographical sense its lo longer Brazil in any form, change the climate.
Alternately download one of the geological sims and run it until you get a continent you like.


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

I'll go over my things and check it over. It is rough draft form still and I still have much work to do.

I still have a few projects to finish and to complete.

Agreed. Litor's wolf idea is done to death. I might make it a red hawk with two heads. (an Aquillia) As I have yet to see that as a house symbol anywhere.

The other houses that are represented by weapons are just a throw away to think of a concept idea. Such as building the houses to be unique from each other house.
Like House Thaitium and its house sigil. They are still a work in progress.

House Thatium is named after a metal. So I might just make it another symbol such as a smith's hammer.

The maps bit is quite interesting, I originally drew the maps on a napkin, to show my friend what I think the world would like. Then I transfered it onto a notecard, then blew it up on a notebook paper. And yes you are completely correct on the map bit.

My world is based on Pangea. As there is very little tectonitics and movement on their planet. I mean there is more than one primary continent.

But yeah I'll get on it. ANd a few pages back I gave a brief description in one my short blurbs

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Frankly I always think it pays to downsize.

You can collapse the map down to a fraction of the original size (telescoping in, making all realms smaller) and still keep pretty much the same story.

There is something to be said for epic tales featuring vast numbers, but in most settings ten thousand and a million are similar. A plot to save the world is still high plot whether the known world has a population of bilions or of low millions. Downsizing also helps in other ways, as maps are smaller journey times are cut, so plot events in 'distant' places that need to interact can more easily do so. If you want distance add a large desert or some high mountain ranges, they will cut communications and act as barriers.

Your continent can become a big island with the same effect, in fact many of the better fantasy worlds when scaled out properly are not too big. You can have a powerful vibrant kingdom the size of New Jersey, m any ancient kingdoms were smaller than this, as were many European realms.

Larger realms invoke larger plots, but its just numerically larger, the manner of the plot is the same, however smaller forces means more characterisation, a chance to zoom in, and above all means that a hero may be less and yet accomplish more.

Many of the better authors keep the numbers low, even at the expense of making lands empty. Middle Earth and Narnia are both cases in point. Smaller numbers also make more sense a lot of the time, most medival armies were rather small, and a few hundred men could change the fate of much of Europe.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Orlanth wrote:
Frankly I always think it pays to downsize.

You can collapse the map down to a fraction of the original size (telescoping in, making all realms smaller) and still keep pretty much the same story.

There is something to be said for epic tales featuring vast numbers, but in most settings ten thousand and a million are similar. A plot to save the world is still high plot whether the known world has a population of bilions or of low millions. Downsizing also helps in other ways, as maps are smaller journey times are cut, so plot events in 'distant' places that need to interact can more easily do so. If you want distance add a large desert or some high mountain ranges, they will cut communications and act as barriers.

Your continent can become a big island with the same effect, in fact many of the better fantasy worlds when scaled out properly are not too big. You can have a powerful vibrant kingdom the size of New Jersey, m any ancient kingdoms were smaller than this, as were many European realms.

Larger realms invoke larger plots, but its just numerically larger, the manner of the plot is the same, however smaller forces means more characterisation, a chance to zoom in, and above all means that a hero may be less and yet accomplish more.

Many of the better authors keep the numbers low, even at the expense of making lands empty. Middle Earth and Narnia are both cases in point. Smaller numbers also make more sense a lot of the time, most medival armies were rather small, and a few hundred men could change the fate of much of Europe.


The largest battle in the book, that I have drafted thus far was 10,000 vs 15,000~.

There is no massive army in the book. Except if you count the revenants, whose numbers are literally meant to be endless (You know having necromancers helps). I mean as the book goes on the battles become less extravagant and more brutal to the point. As the battle harden core of the army that the character is in, becomes less and less in number. And things become a little bit more desperate. I actually wasn't planning on making a massive army battle. The final battle and this is not a spoiler, is 4,000 men and women vs 12,000~ Revenants and others. And no I will not elaborate on who wins, because in the end it will be desperate, and who knows who will win.

I mean the continent does not stretch from polar ice cap to another. Its close but no cigars, But I will take your thoughts into consideration as I continue to write my geographical maps and how big the world actually is.

The battles are absolutely brutal though, as I have studied military history of the crusades and found that the smaller forces usually did the best. I.E. Second crusade Saladin vs the New King (The French one), and how Saladin just maneuvered near a river and slowly picked off the crusaders because they wanted to get access to the river. Saladin won due to his genius and due to the fact his riders constantly annoyed

In this world Maneuvers and formations help in war. As would magic. But I am still deciding the frequency of it. But the Eastern half has little to no magic while the western half has an abundance of it. But it is seen with suspicion and seen as evil by the ignorant (Which makes up most of the worlds population).

And yeah good idea making the world smaller. But I will probably make it to the degree of the size of the north american continent which was the original idea.

But the world is suppose to be big. And different looking than most worlds. With a giant kingdom in the middle of country seperating the two sides.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/30 02:13:02


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Asherian Command wrote:


The largest battle in the book, that I have drafted thus far was 10,000 vs 15,000~.

There is no massive army in the book.


An army of ten thousand is very large, its larger than almost any army the Nordic peoples raised, and reasonably large for continental Europe.
Dark Age armies tended to be in the low thousands, High Medieval armies thousands to low tens of thousands

 Asherian Command wrote:

Except if you count the revenants, whose numbers are literally meant to be endless (You know having necromancers helps). I mean as the book goes on the battles become less extravagant and more brutal to the point. As the battle harden core of the army that the character is in, becomes less and less in number. And things become a little bit more desperate. I actually wasn't planning on making a massive army battle. The final battle and this is not a spoiler, is 4,000 men and women vs 12,000~ Revenants and others. And no I will not elaborate on who wins, because in the end it will be desperate, and who knows who will win.


Sounds about right for a major battle.

 Asherian Command wrote:

I mean the continent does not stretch from polar ice cap to another. Its close but no cigars, But I will take your thoughts into consideration as I continue to write my geographical maps and how big the world actually is.


If you want cold to hot to cold for a plot that ranges from the ice to the hot sands you could consider high mountains.


 Asherian Command wrote:

In this world Maneuvers and formations help in war. As would magic. But I am still deciding the frequency of it. But the Eastern half has little to no magic while the western half has an abundance of it. But it is seen with suspicion and seen as evil by the ignorant (Which makes up most of the worlds population).


Have you worked out why magic is concentrated in the west, you need not explain the answer fully in the book, so long as the explanation exists. Ley lines are are good answer, education is not. Powerful wizards would migrate east.

 Asherian Command wrote:

And yeah good idea making the world smaller. But I will probably make it to the degree of the size of the north american continent which was the original idea.

But the world is suppose to be big. And different looking than most worlds. With a giant kingdom in the middle of country separating the two sides.


So your main continent has a usable land mass the size of Australia then? That would certainly do, you could fit many medieval empires in an island-continent that size. To the people living in it the land is vast. You can downsize further by making more parts uninhabitable by civilised man, by mountains and deserts etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/30 09:55:01


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
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Why would people with little to no magic not be conquered by people with significant magic? It would seem to be an insurmountable advantage.
   
Made in us
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Chicago, Illinois

 Bromsy wrote:
Why would people with little to no magic not be conquered by people with significant magic? It would seem to be an insurmountable advantage.


The Eastern half seems to have no access to magic. And those who had magic, nolonger have magic in the eastern half.

I've explained why in the book there is no magic in the eastern half. That was was one of the major reasons I went that far.

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Asherian Command wrote:
 Bromsy wrote:
Why would people with little to no magic not be conquered by people with significant magic? It would seem to be an insurmountable advantage.


The Eastern half seems to have no access to magic. And those who had magic, nolonger have magic in the eastern half.

I've explained why in the book there is no magic in the eastern half. That was was one of the major reasons I went that far.


This could work well, having magic access zonal is an underexplored part of fantasy and causes changes in dynamics and tactics. You could have a selectively high magic setting this way.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Orlanth wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
 Bromsy wrote:
Why would people with little to no magic not be conquered by people with significant magic? It would seem to be an insurmountable advantage.


The Eastern half seems to have no access to magic. And those who had magic, nolonger have magic in the eastern half.

I've explained why in the book there is no magic in the eastern half. That was was one of the major reasons I went that far.


This could work well, having magic access zonal is an underexplored part of fantasy and causes changes in dynamics and tactics. You could have a selectively high magic setting this way.

Yeah. I thought about it very hard if thats what I really want.

And yezah, it is a very good idea as it has never been explored before.

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Asherian Command wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
 Bromsy wrote:
Why would people with little to no magic not be conquered by people with significant magic? It would seem to be an insurmountable advantage.


The Eastern half seems to have no access to magic. And those who had magic, nolonger have magic in the eastern half.

I've explained why in the book there is no magic in the eastern half. That was was one of the major reasons I went that far.


This could work well, having magic access zonal is an underexplored part of fantasy and causes changes in dynamics and tactics. You could have a selectively high magic setting this way.

Yeah. I thought about it very hard if thats what I really want.

And yezah, it is a very good idea as it has never been explored before.



Perhaps you could also take a bit of a 40k Ork system into it?? By this I mean that, if you're going for regional magic power then perhaps at some point in the distant path magic DID cease to exist, but it remained so in the West because the people believed it did. Ergo, when a Western army goes east, wizards magic diminishes because there are fewer people who "believe" that magic works.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
 Bromsy wrote:
Why would people with little to no magic not be conquered by people with significant magic? It would seem to be an insurmountable advantage.


The Eastern half seems to have no access to magic. And those who had magic, nolonger have magic in the eastern half.

I've explained why in the book there is no magic in the eastern half. That was was one of the major reasons I went that far.


This could work well, having magic access zonal is an underexplored part of fantasy and causes changes in dynamics and tactics. You could have a selectively high magic setting this way.

Yeah. I thought about it very hard if thats what I really want.

And yezah, it is a very good idea as it has never been explored before.



Perhaps you could also take a bit of a 40k Ork system into it?? By this I mean that, if you're going for regional magic power then perhaps at some point in the distant path magic DID cease to exist, but it remained so in the West because the people believed it did. Ergo, when a Western army goes east, wizards magic diminishes because there are fewer people who "believe" that magic works.


Or I could leave it open ended, and multiple people saying why magic doesn't exist. Such is the problem with a medevil society. Facts usually aren't correct.

There maybe a just cause as to why, and some may claim to have caused the disruption in magic but it simply is that way.

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






The Brandon Sanderson book Elantris has magic that is geographically based. The further from their city the less effective it is.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Asherian Command wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
 Bromsy wrote:
Why would people with little to no magic not be conquered by people with significant magic? It would seem to be an insurmountable advantage.


The Eastern half seems to have no access to magic. And those who had magic, nolonger have magic in the eastern half.

I've explained why in the book there is no magic in the eastern half. That was was one of the major reasons I went that far.


This could work well, having magic access zonal is an underexplored part of fantasy and causes changes in dynamics and tactics. You could have a selectively high magic setting this way.

Yeah. I thought about it very hard if thats what I really want.

And yezah, it is a very good idea as it has never been explored before.


It has, just not often enough IMHO. It occurs in several published works already. And has at least one recurring theme in classic fantasy literature, the mythos of the faerie forest.

In my own IP there is 'magic zoning', but I will keep to myself exactly how.



 Asherian Command wrote:


Or I could leave it open ended, and multiple people saying why magic doesn't exist. Such is the problem with a medevil society. Facts usually aren't correct.

There maybe a just cause as to why, and some may claim to have caused the disruption in magic but it simply is that way.


Generally a bad idea to not have an explanation, though you need not explain, and if you do the explanation may be incorrect or contradictive.
.
Take two lines of thought, the Prepared method was to explain everything in minuitae, to himself and allow the stories to develop from that. Examples Middle Earth, Narnia (mostly) Battletech
The Open method is to leave things unexplained to allow plot hooks to add stuff onto later. Examples 40K, Star Trek, Star Wars
The latter invite really bizarre and nonsensical design decisions later, admittedly GW designers cant hold a candle to Tolkien, but they set themselves up to fail.

The former method is far rarer because it requires more creative discipline but is much stronger and consistent. Battletech is a soap opera with bad designers but was bult on solid plot foundations, which means it survived well.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/31 08:39:17


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Asherian Command wrote:

Or I could leave it open ended, and multiple people saying why magic doesn't exist. Such is the problem with a medevil society. Facts usually aren't correct.

There maybe a just cause as to why, and some may claim to have caused the disruption in magic but it simply is that way.



Agreed... I guess what I'm saying is that you could have any number of characters explain the way that magic works any number of ways, and they all circle around some truth that "the more people believe in magic, the more powerful it is"

This was kind of a theme in the TV show, Carinvale... It's set in dustbowl America, and the world is on the brink from where science is "threatening" to engulf all belief in magic, or rather science is progressing at a rate at which people no longer believe that there's ANY magic (magic here being that wonder and awe of nature) left.
   
 
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