Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/07/08 15:55:39
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
And the heyday of armor was right before gunpowder became an immensely practical weapon. Once guns became practical and standing armies became a thing armored knights quickly went away as a force on the battlefield.
Then guns began to be more common(slowly replacing the Crossbow) while the bulk of soldiers used Pikes, and once Bayonets were invented the Pikes became obsolete. This is when an army was mostly pike formations which protected your gunners/crossbowmen while being backed up by artillery. Cavalry were used as a flanking force to tie up enemy cavalry and prevent them from flanking you.
So if you are going for early renaissance, you'll have massed battles of Pikemen protecting ranks of gunners/crossbowmen.
You'll have units of Swordsmen who are tasked with breaking pike lines with massive twohanded swords(Forlorn Hope)
Not sure if that is what you were going for. Its not typical fantasy fodder, but I think it could definitely work.
I am going for more amassed battle of different types of weapons being used.
As the world is still recovering after the destruction of an entire empire. But the technology didn't go backwards it went forwards in many areas just not in a lot of major areas.
But my major thing is that it is still a fantasy setting so it will be mysterious and the peoples in will be different.
AS I continue to write up my book. (First chapter currently is being written, with the other ones being put into prompt form)
I wish I had concept artists to help me flesh it out ;.;
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/08 18:31:38
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/07/10 22:01:01
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Hey everyone if your interested in criticizing, you can help me write my book, just message me if your interested as I am currently going through the first chapter and need people to help me flesh it out.
Check first post for different questions!
I am currently working on several chapters and getting them together. I have the flow chart down.
Asherian Command wrote: First question is would a noble family be called a house or a family?
This is something where you have leeway I think. Clan. House. Family. Etc. Pick one you like or whatever better suits the culture you're creating. I think your time would be better spent defining the structure, expectations, and norms of the family than what the family is called. Create a baseline (think Ultramarines with their super adherence to the Codex Astartes) and use that as a social standard, then deviate from it for each new family. Deviation for deviation's sake is as with Custom Chapters, silly, so think of why a family would behave differently from another. This will help you in defining each family as well as how those families will interact with one another.
George Martin did a spectacular job in this category I think and is a great standard on which to study. Personally, I'd suggest writing your story first and working out the world building afterwards. Its very easy and a pit trap for many writers to become trapped in world building so much they never actually write their story. These finer details can be flexible and worked out at a later time (my advice). Get a framework together for yourself and fluff it out as you go.
Would it be abnormal for women to serve in the military?
Depends. There are many famous women in our history with military service. Joan of Arc. Matilda of Tuscany. Boudica. Artemisia. Fu Hao was both the wife of a Chinese King and his greatest general (supposedly she never lost a battle).
You'll want to work on the culture of your world. Is it Matriarchal or Patriarchal? Is lineage traced through the mother or the father? What are the social expectations of men and women and what are their family responsibilities? Historically, the more a society depended on Agriculture, the less egalitarian the sexes were but not necessarily. Ancient China was a quasi-Matriarchy despite depending heavily of rice agriculture.
What is the amount of characters in a single POV? Like 2 or 3?
A single POV is 1. The thing to keep in mind about multiple POV is what kind of story are you telling. Is it one person's journey? A group? Is the focus of the narrative really on one person but numerous others are also involved and have their own tales that tie in?
EDIT: You'll also want to consider the reliability of your narrator. Is the narrator(s) completely honest with accurate information, or are they biased? Will they lie to the reader?
How long should my first chapter be? (20 pages or 30? I am almost at 25 pages in my notebook)
This is completely up to you. There's no standard. I tend to end a chapter when the scene at hand is finished or when I feel like I've gone long enough and the reader can have a break to put the book down.
Should I post some of the ideas I've come up with here? Or keep it private and to a select few?
As I've directed others, check out Writing Forums.org as its a great site. There's nothing wrong with brainstorming with others as it helps many people with writing. Just keep in mind never post the whole of a work you want to get published on the net. Publishers have this thing called 'First Publishing' Rights and that means they don't want something they're publishing to have been previously released. A few chapters to get mass feedback (especially on the early chapters as these are key) is good, but don't put too much out there or you can create a barrier to professional publishing.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/07/10 22:35:44
Asherian Command wrote: First question is would a noble family be called a house or a family?
This is something where you have leeway I think. Clan. House. Family. Etc. Pick one you like or whatever better suits the culture you're creating. I think your time would be better spent defining the structure, expectations, and norms of the family than what the family is called. Create a baseline (think Ultramarines with their super adherence to the Codex Astartes) and use that as a social standard, then deviate from it for each new family. Deviation for deviation's sake is as with Custom Chapters, silly, so think of why a family would behave differently from another. This will help you in defining each family as well as how those families will interact with one another.
George Martin did a spectacular job in this category I think and is a great standard on which to study. Personally, I'd suggest writing your story first and working out the world building afterwards. Its very easy and a pit trap for many writers to become trapped in world building so much they never actually write their story. These finer details can be flexible and worked out at a later time (my advice). Get a framework together for yourself and fluff it out as you go.
Which I am studying. I just need to look at the books again, learn from them :/
The Families aren't a massive part of the world. Not like Martin's.
But yes the story comes first. I know where its going to end, I know what the primary main character is going to do, and what he is going to have to go through. Its the side characters that also have importance that I will add to the story.
Would it be abnormal for women to serve in the military?
Depends. There are many famous women in our history with military service. Joan of Arc. Matilda of Tuscany. Boudica. Artemisia. Fu Hao was both the wife of a Chinese King and his greatest general (supposedly she never lost a battle).
You'll want to work on the culture of your world. Is it Matriarchal or Patriarchal? Is lineage traced through the mother or the father? What are the social expectations of men and women and what are their family responsibilities? Historically, the more a society depended on Agriculture, the less egalitarian the sexes were but not necessarily. Ancient China was a quasi-Matriarchy despite depending heavily of rice agriculture.
Hmm. Interesting. I mean the Litor Family - The Main Group - Has females leading it was because their founder was a woman. But there is still sexism its not solved. It might happen but it might not.
What is the amount of characters in a single POV? Like 2 or 3?
A single POV is 1. The thing to keep in mind about multiple POV is what kind of story are you telling. Is it one person's journey? A group? Is the focus of the narrative really on one person but numerous others are also involved and have their own tales that tie in?
Yes I know that, but how many characters should be per a POV not the POV, but the other characters? Should they be alone or should they be among others all the time?
How long should my first chapter be? (20 pages or 30? I am almost at 25 pages in my notebook)
This is completely up to you. There's no standard. I tend to end a chapter when the scene at hand is finished or when I feel like I've gone long enough and the reader can have a break to put the book down.
Ah.
Should I post some of the ideas I've come up with here? Or keep it private and to a select few?
As I've directed others, check out Writing Forums.org as its a great site. There's nothing wrong with brainstorming with others as it helps many people with writing. Just keep in mind never post the whole of a work you want to get published on the net. Publishers have this thing called 'First Publishing' Rights and that means they don't want something they're publishing to have been previously released. A few chapters to get mass feedback (especially on the early chapters as these are key) is good, but don't put too much out there or you can create a barrier to professional publishing.
So like the first few chapters and then over time you slowly build up a group of people who you trust that you share the next chapters.
I will not share the last chapters, or any pivotal chapters. As my plan is to have those be surprises.
And yes I've been to the writing forums, people are quite helpful, and some are not.
I have a ton of work that I have not released alot of it I keep to myself and share with only people close to me. Like who will die, what happens in the end, and major plot points that could ruin the whole story.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/10 22:47:03
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/07/10 23:10:10
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Asherian Command wrote: But there is still sexism its not solved. It might happen but it might not.
Keep in mind that however you set it up, if there's a really good reason, people break tradition and convention. Matilda of Tuscany lived in a time when women were probably most maligned by the church, but she was such an ardent defender of the Italian States against the Holy Roman Empire, and so successful in this role, she is one of the few women interned in the Vatican in St. Peter's Basilica, which is typically somewhere you only get buried for being Pope.
If someone, man or women, low born or high born, is really really good at what they do, people tend to move aside and let them do it. Not that they won't make enemies, but social convention has this way of bending to pragmatism in desperate times (and then snapping back like a rubber band afterwards).
Yes I know that, but how many characters should be per a POV not the POV, but the other characters? Should they be alone or should they be among others all the time?
Oooooh. Sorry. Misunderstood.
This will vary by writer, style and skill. Handling a large number of characters taking action in one scene can be really really hard. I tend to find my own work becoming unwieldy when more than six or so characters are in center focus. Conversations become muddles, action scenes get bardlged. You'll likely have a different threshold than me and you'll need to experiment to find it. Some writers are just better at juggling loads and loads of characters than others.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/10 23:11:28
Asherian Command wrote: But there is still sexism its not solved. It might happen but it might not.
Keep in mind that however you set it up, if there's a really good reason, people break tradition and convention. Matilda of Tuscany lived in a time when women were probably most maligned by the church, but she was such an ardent defender of the Italian States against the Holy Roman Empire, and so successful in this role, she is one of the few women interned in the Vatican in St. Peter's Basilica, which is typically somewhere you only get buried for being Pope.
If someone, man or women, low born or high born, is really really good at what they do, people tend to move aside and let them do it. Not that they won't make enemies, but social convention has this way of bending to pragmatism in desperate times (and then snapping back like a rubber band afterwards).
Yes I know that, but how many characters should be per a POV not the POV, but the other characters? Should they be alone or should they be among others all the time?
Oooooh. Sorry. Misunderstood.
This will vary by writer, style and skill. Handling a large number of characters taking action in one scene can be really really hard. I tend to find my own work becoming unwieldy when more than six or so characters are in center focus. Conversations become muddles, action scenes get bardlged. You'll likely have a different threshold than me and you'll need to experiment to find it. Some writers are just better at juggling loads and loads of characters than others.
Agreed with everything.
I am still working my way through mastering Different POVs. I can do single POV with a character and multiple others and it comes out pretty well. But once I start hitting around 8 characters it is chaotic.
And I have a couple female characters, (Like half the cast is female. Three are warriors, the rest are not, the others being more based on the mind, than using their weapons)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/10 23:17:28
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/07/10 23:21:40
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
MWHistorian wrote: A book I'd highly recommend is "How to Write a Damn Good Novel." It will answer many of your questions, even ones you didn't know to ask."
Added to the books I need to read now
But who's the author of this work?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/11 00:28:18
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/07/11 05:29:35
Subject: Re:Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Generally, with a family or house you'll be looking at something like the factions in Game of Thrones. basically an extended family, but still close enough to have definite family ties(you can figure out how everyone is related to everyone else exactly) You can go either way, although House implies more individuals and may include unrelated persons who are bound in service while Family implies relation either by blood or marriage.
With a Clan, you are at a much larger group scale. Everyone is descended from a specific person or small group, but not everyone can say for sure exactly how. The tribal leaders will have a direct line most likely, but everyone else will be of unknown descent quality. Some people may not even be related, they've married or been adopted in.
As far as the involvement of women, a society with a strong emphasis on martial prowess could go either way. You could easily have it similar to many real life societies where, although women generally kept to the domestic sphere because of starting families, that was no real barrier. If you were a good fighter nobody cared what was between your legs. Just don't go out of the way of the story to show it. Have a good justification for it in the setting and use it to enhance the story.
And the heyday of armor was right before gunpowder became an immensely practical weapon. Once guns became practical and standing armies became a thing armored knights quickly went away as a force on the battlefield.
Then guns began to be more common(slowly replacing the Crossbow) while the bulk of soldiers used Pikes, and once Bayonets were invented the Pikes became obsolete. This is when an army was mostly pike formations which protected your gunners/crossbowmen while being backed up by artillery. Cavalry were used as a flanking force to tie up enemy cavalry and prevent them from flanking you.
So if you are going for early renaissance, you'll have massed battles of Pikemen protecting ranks of gunners/crossbowmen.
You'll have units of Swordsmen who are tasked with breaking pike lines with massive twohanded swords(Forlorn Hope)
Not sure if that is what you were going for. Its not typical fantasy fodder, but I think it could definitely work.
I am going for more amassed battle of different types of weapons being used.
As the world is still recovering after the destruction of an entire empire. But the technology didn't go backwards it went forwards in many areas just not in a lot of major areas.
But my major thing is that it is still a fantasy setting so it will be mysterious and the peoples in will be different.
AS I continue to write up my book. (First chapter currently is being written, with the other ones being put into prompt form)
I wish I had concept artists to help me flesh it out ;.;
If that is the case, the most realistic scenario is the following. Going with vague generalities of course.
Current major factions would be some of the major noble houses who survived whatever destroyed the empire, possibly a remnant of the Empire itself(or multiples) still holding on to the shattered tatters of what it once was, along with some newer factions which arose out of the aftermath.
So you'd have 2-5 major noble houses who emerged relatively unscathed from the aftermath and currently stand alone. They may have been vassals of the Empire who now find themselves free of foreign rule. Some may have been independent all along.
A remnant of the Empire itself, likely only holding a small amount of territory, ruled by some obscure member of the former Imperial royal line. Still loudly proclaiming that its ruler is the rightful Emperor and all others should bow down. You could even have several factions like this, each saying they are the true Emperor.
Then you'll have some new factions. Formed by former Generals in the Empire's military who have set themselves up as kings in lands they seized after the collapse. Alternatively they may just be brigands, merchants, or mercenaries who fancy setting up their own little kingdoms just because they can.
You will also have a bunch of ex-soldiers from both sides roaming about as bandits and pirates just preying on anyone they come across.
Maybe another previously minor independent power has moved into the power vacuum created and seized a bunch of land it previously couldn't have hoped to take.
What exactly caused the collapse of this Empire BTW? With a little more info we could have some more specific ideas.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/11 05:40:02
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Maybe, I'm late to the party, but this topic really interests me primarily because I am working on my story as well.
Asherian Command wrote: So I need some help! And I will ask some questions. Also I feel like it should be talked about , because lets face it, there are tons of cliches in Fantasy. Like how there is always a dark lord, how its usually black and white. There is always elves and dwarves. The magic is always downplayed for some weird reason. (LOTR, GOT, The lion the witch and the wardrobe).
You need to read or become aware of more fantasy. The generic dark lord or single enemy does exist in nearly every setting, but magic isn't downplayed in every world. Not by longshot. In fact, my biggest criticism of some fantasy settings is that they have excess and overly common magic, which effectively renders it mundane. By limiting it in the LoTR, ASoIaF, and The Chronicles of Narnia, each respective author has made the use of magic, well, magical. It's just something to consider. Do you want your magic to be special or commonplace? It's just flavoring.
Spoiler:
(These Have already been answered) Alright My First Question is why do fantasy novels or novels that feature weaponry in general that are melee feature Swords as the primary weapon of the main character?
So I am writing a novel and my main Character, does not use a sword. Instead he uses a spear, why? Because he lacks the strength to wield a sword, and really doesn't like combat, so in order to get him in tip top shape the trainer gives him a spear, because spears are easier to wield and easier to train people with. (Funnily enough he's a lord, and never found the time to take up sword training) Now he will get some special weapon later. Like most fantasy characters get later on, but in the book, I decided to talk about this issue and hit a snag. Why don't characters use axes more?
I mean swords are expensive. Thats alot of steel and hard work to make such a complex thing like a sword. Why not a spear? or an Axe? Or just grab a bow and call it a day?
My second question what is the mythology surrounding the Celtics (And Anglo Saxons) and their magic rituals? Any recommended readings?
My third and final question is... How do borderline personalities occur? Is it possible in a fantasy story? I am planning on including it in my story. I read about in psychology classes that I took in class and found out that they were manipulative. Having never experienced this, I would like to know how it feel to be around these people? Would it be scary or would you not notice, until they started to do ill?
Currently my book is in early drafting and is basically my homage to the stories I used to read as a child, like the old king arthur legends, the tales of Saint George, The Crusades, and basically what my childhood reading was like. ( i read a ton of medieval literature as a kid, and noticed a lot of cliches as the years went on).
But yep yeah for creative writing!
Newest Questions.
First question is would a noble family be called a house or a family? Would it be abnormal for women to serve in the military?
I think the term House is more appropriate and it seems to be the standard across multiple speculative fiction settings. Whether or not it is abnormal for women to serve in the military is entirely dependent on how you want to build your world. If you're depicting realistic humans, than women would play a smaller role and be more limited. However, you're perfectly free to depict the women as just as capable, or even more capable, than men. The gender roles of your respective societies are free for you to create. Personally, I think female characters are vital to a realistic story. Even the society is patriarchal and men dominate it, women still exist and many decisions men make are concerning women.
What is the amount of characters in a single POV? Like 2 or 3?
How long should the character be trained? How would time move in a single POV?
So if the main villain of the story, are undead creatures would pikes not serve any use?
How long should my first chapter be? (20 pages or 30? I am almost at 25 pages in my notebook)
How should I start it? Should I start it like GOT? Showing the main villian or just starting it with the main character and at the end of the chapter introduce the villain?
Start it in a way that captures the reader's attention and keeps them turning the pages. It isn't necessary to reveal the protagonist and antagonist immediately. It isn't necessary for the first character introduced to survive the first few pages. All that matters is drawing the reader in at that point and keeping them reading.
Should I post some of the ideas I've come up with here? Or keep it private and to a select few?
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
2014/07/11 10:32:15
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
First question is would a noble family be called a house or a family? Would it be abnormal for women to serve in the military?
House, Family, Clan. Anything really, it your world. There's really no convention here, it's the dynamic and structure that is more important than the name.
It depends entirely on the setting. This is fantasy, so you can do whatever you like. The way I see it, you could easily have a setting where people would do what they were good at. So if you have a woman that is better than all the lads with a sword then she probably becomes a warrior equal to any man in standing (or you could work this into the character, have her better than some but not recognised and therefore a but bitter)
What is the amount of characters in a single POV? Like 2 or 3?
This, as others have said, is entirely up to you. I'm currently working on a project that will have 3-4 'main' POVs, and then have chapters from other viewpoints if necessary. One thing that is fun to play with narratorial instability and reliability, Don't have every character knowing everything, or having the same view. If there's a contrast in how an event is portrayed by two characters, it forces the reader to consider why that is. On the other hand, if you present just one viewpoint you can create a very biased unique 'voice' for a character. Here's a couple of examples from my own writing on Dakka that demonstrate this :
How long should the character be trained? How would time move in a single POV?
It depends again on you. Some novels will skip dozens of years and then fill in a backstory as you go along, some will spend chapter after chapter presenting the growth of a character through childhood/training/experience ect. It depends onwhat you want to achieve; do you want to build up a character and have a changing nature throughout the novel, or start with a fully formed character that will then change given events within the plot? I tend to lean towards the latter, but it's preference really).
So if the main villain of the story, are undead creatures would pikes not serve any use?
I can't see why they wouldn't; they still make a fearsome defensive formation even if the enemy are a bunch of zombies/ other undead loonies. Of course, if you have incorporeal/ethereal undead then they're no good, but neither is anything else.
How long should my first chapter be? (20 pages or 30? I am almost at 25 pages in my notebook)
How should I start it? Should I start it like GOT? Showing the main villian or just starting it with the main character and at the end of the chapter introduce the villain?
The first chapter should be about drawing people in. Some do this by creating a character, some by having a massive battle, some by jumping straight in to a setting to provoke questions. Personally, I don't like introducing villains until a bit later on; I like to create a character and only once they're formed give them a counterpoint. But this is all preference.
My only advice for Chapter length is not to obsess over it. Take the time and length you need for each scene; whether that's 1000 words or 5000, telling the story is the most important bit. I'd advise against changing POV within a chapter unless you have a good reason to.
Should I post some of the ideas I've come up with here? Or keep it private and to a select few?
Posting bits and pieces should be fine, but don't go giving the whole thing to just anyone. Feedback is an important part of this process though, and forums are often the best way to get this (with the added bonus that your audience don't know you so that won't factor in their opinion).
I'd be happy to give you feedback on anything if you post it on here or PM me.
2014/07/11 13:18:26
Subject: Re:Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Grey Templar wrote: Generally, with a family or house you'll be looking at something like the factions in Game of Thrones. basically an extended family, but still close enough to have definite family ties(you can figure out how everyone is related to everyone else exactly) You can go either way, although House implies more individuals and may include unrelated persons who are bound in service while Family implies relation either by blood or marriage.
With a Clan, you are at a much larger group scale. Everyone is descended from a specific person or small group, but not everyone can say for sure exactly how. The tribal leaders will have a direct line most likely, but everyone else will be of unknown descent quality. Some people may not even be related, they've married or been adopted in.
As far as the involvement of women, a society with a strong emphasis on martial prowess could go either way. You could easily have it similar to many real life societies where, although women generally kept to the domestic sphere because of starting families, that was no real barrier. If you were a good fighter nobody cared what was between your legs. Just don't go out of the way of the story to show it. Have a good justification for it in the setting and use it to enhance the story.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
If that is the case, the most realistic scenario is the following. Going with vague generalities of course.
Current major factions would be some of the major noble houses who survived whatever destroyed the empire, possibly a remnant of the Empire itself(or multiples) still holding on to the shattered tatters of what it once was, along with some newer factions which arose out of the aftermath.
So you'd have 2-5 major noble houses who emerged relatively unscathed from the aftermath and currently stand alone. They may have been vassals of the Empire who now find themselves free of foreign rule. Some may have been independent all along.
A remnant of the Empire itself, likely only holding a small amount of territory, ruled by some obscure member of the former Imperial royal line. Still loudly proclaiming that its ruler is the rightful Emperor and all others should bow down. You could even have several factions like this, each saying they are the true Emperor.
Then you'll have some new factions. Formed by former Generals in the Empire's military who have set themselves up as kings in lands they seized after the collapse. Alternatively they may just be brigands, merchants, or mercenaries who fancy setting up their own little kingdoms just because they can.
You will also have a bunch of ex-soldiers from both sides roaming about as bandits and pirates just preying on anyone they come across.
Maybe another previously minor independent power has moved into the power vacuum created and seized a bunch of land it previously couldn't have hoped to take.
What exactly caused the collapse of this Empire BTW? With a little more info we could have some more specific ideas.
Currently I have that setup as a secret. No one knows what destroyed the empire. AS it has been several centuries since it's collapse. Infact they have no idea how long ago it was since the empire's fall. No one fully knows what destroyed the empire. Lets just say it involved a certain fellow and his desire for power.
I planned on making it a house as it would have access to man at arms and hold some political power.
I made it so that clans designate other groups and other cultures.
As Meroth (The Kingdom) would be more dark ages like.
You need to read or become aware of more fantasy. The generic dark lord or single enemy does exist in nearly every setting, but magic isn't downplayed in every world. Not by longshot. In fact, my biggest criticism of some fantasy settings is that they have excess and overly common magic, which effectively renders it mundane. By limiting it in the LoTR, ASoIaF, and The Chronicles of Narnia, each respective author has made the use of magic, well, magical. It's just something to consider. Do you want your magic to be special or commonplace? It's just flavoring.
I made it so that magic is extremely rare. Think of psychic abilities in certain shows or precogs. In this setting there are very few who actually do use magic, most that do practice it, use rune magic which is just drawing symbols on the ground. I've left it a mystery as to why there are so few people who utilize magic. Magic is powerful and terrifying. There is a kingdom of mages called Drenden. But they are rarely involved until halfway through the book. As Magic has all of sudden made a return. Where things that used to just be said were magic became magical. As magic was prevalent during the empire's reign.
I think the term House is more appropriate and it seems to be the standard across multiple speculative fiction settings. Whether or not it is abnormal for women to serve in the military is entirely dependent on how you want to build your world. If you're depicting realistic humans, than women would play a smaller role and be more limited. However, you're perfectly free to depict the women as just as capable, or even more capable, than men. The gender roles of your respective societies are free for you to create. Personally, I think female characters are vital to a realistic story. Even the society is patriarchal and men dominate it, women still exist and many decisions men make are concerning women.
So having some characters break the norms would be an interesting concept. And show characters who do not break the norms and follow them.
House, Family, Clan. Anything really, it your world. There's really no convention here, it's the dynamic and structure that is more important than the name.
It depends entirely on the setting. This is fantasy, so you can do whatever you like. The way I see it, you could easily have a setting where people would do what they were good at. So if you have a woman that is better than all the lads with a sword then she probably becomes a warrior equal to any man in standing (or you could work this into the character, have her better than some but not recognised and therefore a but bitter)
Done one of the characters is like that. She is quite bitter.
This, as others have said, is entirely up to you. I'm currently working on a project that will have 3-4 'main' POVs, and then have chapters from other viewpoints if necessary. One thing that is fun to play with narratorial instability and reliability, Don't have every character knowing everything, or having the same view. If there's a contrast in how an event is portrayed by two characters, it forces the reader to consider why that is. On the other hand, if you present just one viewpoint you can create a very biased unique 'voice' for a character. Here's a couple of examples from my own writing on Dakka that demonstrate this :
It depends again on you. Some novels will skip dozens of years and then fill in a backstory as you go along, some will spend chapter after chapter presenting the growth of a character through childhood/training/experience ect. It depends onwhat you want to achieve; do you want to build up a character and have a changing nature throughout the novel, or start with a fully formed character that will then change given events within the plot? I tend to lean towards the latter, but it's preference really).
Oh. Okay. I didn't know I had the power to say a year later or so. Because the training isn't really that important.
I can't see why they wouldn't; they still make a fearsome defensive formation even if the enemy are a bunch of zombies/ other undead loonies. Of course, if you have incorporeal/ethereal undead then they're no good, but neither is anything else.
True. I might need to explain how to kill them overtime as one of the Main Characters managed to kill one. He never goes into details about it.
The first chapter should be about drawing people in. Some do this by creating a character, some by having a massive battle, some by jumping straight in to a setting to provoke questions. Personally, I don't like introducing villains until a bit later on; I like to create a character and only once they're formed give them a counterpoint. But this is all preference.
My only advice for Chapter length is not to obsess over it. Take the time and length you need for each scene; whether that's 1000 words or 5000, telling the story is the most important bit. I'd advise against changing POV within a chapter unless you have a good reason to.
The first chapter I've found is drawing a lot of tension and teaching you about the characters and how they interact in it. It shows the main villian in the first few pages. But never gives his name nor talks about what it truly was.
Posting bits and pieces should be fine, but don't go giving the whole thing to just anyone. Feedback is an important part of this process though, and forums are often the best way to get this (with the added bonus that your audience don't know you so that won't factor in their opinion).
I'd be happy to give you feedback on anything if you post it on here or PM me.
Agreed. I have added quite a bit to it. And I am never truly satisfied with my work.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/11 13:19:53
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/07/11 13:41:53
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
I'd point out that, I don't think the issue in some modern fantasy is that there's too much magic. Writers create, cool as they are, systems and categories and define how magic works, at which point it stops being magic is is more just crazy super science. I feel magic is more importantly dependent on mystery than it is on rarity. Nothing wrong with this approach really, but Arthur C Clarke's famous words I think can go the other direction; Any sufficiently explained magic is indistinguishable from science.
LordofHats wrote: I'd point out that, I don't think the issue in some modern fantasy is that there's too much magic. Writers create, cool as they are, systems and categories and define how magic works, at which point it stops being magic is is more just crazy super science. I feel magic is more importantly dependent on mystery than it is on rarity. Nothing wrong with this approach really, but Arthur C Clarke's famous words I think can go the other direction; Any sufficiently explained magic is indistinguishable from science.
Hmm. So I should I just make it more mysterious? Because the magic will never be talked about how it is created and used, but it will be talked about how to stop it from working. And there won't be any characters that wield magic (From the main cast)
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/07/11 14:07:08
Subject: Re:Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
This, as others have said, is entirely up to you. I'm currently working on a project that will have 3-4 'main' POVs, and then have chapters from other viewpoints if necessary. One thing that is fun to play with narratorial instability and reliability, Don't have every character knowing everything, or having the same view. If there's a contrast in how an event is portrayed by two characters, it forces the reader to consider why that is. On the other hand, if you present just one viewpoint you can create a very biased unique 'voice' for a character. Here's a couple of examples from my own writing on Dakka that demonstrate this :
Oh, sorry, I thought that was what you meant by 'how many characters in a single POV'. If you could clarify what you meant, I'll try and answer the right question
2014/07/11 14:10:13
Subject: Re:Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
This, as others have said, is entirely up to you. I'm currently working on a project that will have 3-4 'main' POVs, and then have chapters from other viewpoints if necessary. One thing that is fun to play with narratorial instability and reliability, Don't have every character knowing everything, or having the same view. If there's a contrast in how an event is portrayed by two characters, it forces the reader to consider why that is. On the other hand, if you present just one viewpoint you can create a very biased unique 'voice' for a character. Here's a couple of examples from my own writing on Dakka that demonstrate this :
Oh, sorry, I thought that was what you meant by 'how many characters in a single POV'. If you could clarify what you meant, I'll try and answer the right question
How many characters should be in a Scene in a single POV?
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/07/11 14:22:42
Subject: Re:Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
This, as others have said, is entirely up to you. I'm currently working on a project that will have 3-4 'main' POVs, and then have chapters from other viewpoints if necessary. One thing that is fun to play with narratorial instability and reliability, Don't have every character knowing everything, or having the same view. If there's a contrast in how an event is portrayed by two characters, it forces the reader to consider why that is. On the other hand, if you present just one viewpoint you can create a very biased unique 'voice' for a character. Here's a couple of examples from my own writing on Dakka that demonstrate this :
Oh, sorry, I thought that was what you meant by 'how many characters in a single POV'. If you could clarify what you meant, I'll try and answer the right question
How many characters should be in a Scene in a single POV?
Oh, right, so basically the exact opposite of the question I answers (how many POVs for one scene). The answer is, as many as you are comfortable writing. Again, so much depends on plot and character than there are no hard and fast rules, but here are a few guidelines depending on what you are trying to achieve.
If you're trying to establish the relationship between two characters (call them A and B), one of which is the narrator, having a third character (C) there can allow another voice to come through in his actions/responses that can shed more light on the relationship between A and B, so avoids the somewhat clunky thing of characters explaining their own relationships. For example (and this is oversimplified a lot), saying:
A hated B, and on seeing him, his hand went to his blade. sounds far more clunky than:
B entered, and A caught sight of him, immediately reaching for his sword. C stepped back, seeming suddenly wary of his companion (A)
If, on the other hand, you're trying to create an intimate and personal scene between A and B, then removing other characters (either by not featuring them, or just literally distancing A and B from them) can obviously add to that effect. To continue the example above:
A's sword was out in a flash, and B copied the movement, a sequence they had perfected across a dozen duels. Now, no one else in the room mattered; it was only the two of them, staring into eyes brimming with hatred. The crowd around them seemed to fade away to nothingness as the fight began. So this allows you to focus on the just the two characters by distancing them from others physically and literally.
On the other hand, if you want to create a group dynamic then having more characters is better, as the interplay between them becomes a good indicator of personalities that would take a while to build up doing them one by one. If you have a character that is hostile to another who is light-hearted, then it sets the former up as grim or serious, without having to create that character in isolation.
Hope that clears it up; in general, the only rule is that there are no rules!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/11 14:23:08
2014/07/11 14:30:14
Subject: Re:Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Let me add, that this isn't going to be easy. Writing novels is hard and takes a lot of work. My best advice is this: Write a novel and finish it. Doesn't matter how crappy it is, just finish it. Everyone's first novel is crappy, but if you can finish it, you'll prove to yourself that you can and also you'll learn a lot more by doing so. Once that's out of the way, then you can try to write an actually good one.
And lastly, here's a fantastic pod cast that has some of the best advice I've heard. It's topical so you can go through and listen to them by topic, but I'd suggest listening to all of them. I know these guys and they know what they're talking about.
http://www.writingexcuses.com/
Edit: one last thing. Magic has to have a price and it has to have rules. Your reader has to know basically what it can and can't do. Otherwise you get the Star Trek tricorder syndrome where it just does whatever the plot needs it to and editors and readers don't look kindly on that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/11 14:36:29
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions.
2014/07/11 20:36:19
Subject: Re:Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Let me add, that this isn't going to be easy. Writing novels is hard and takes a lot of work. My best advice is this: Write a novel and finish it. Doesn't matter how crappy it is, just finish it. Everyone's first novel is crappy, but if you can finish it, you'll prove to yourself that you can and also you'll learn a lot more by doing so. Once that's out of the way, then you can try to write an actually good one.
And lastly, here's a fantastic pod cast that has some of the best advice I've heard. It's topical so you can go through and listen to them by topic, but I'd suggest listening to all of them. I know these guys and they know what they're talking about.
http://www.writingexcuses.com/
Edit: one last thing. Magic has to have a price and it has to have rules. Your reader has to know basically what it can and can't do. Otherwise you get the Star Trek tricorder syndrome where it just does whatever the plot needs it to and editors and readers don't look kindly on that.
Oh so I should keep the rules section where the mage talks about it? Oh okay
ANd thank you. I will save that to my Google drive for future reference.
And yeah this my third attempt at a novel, the first one was a 40k rip off, and the second one was the prequel to the current book I am writing. But I decided to leave it a mystery instead of talking about how a man becomes a god.
Oh, right, so basically the exact opposite of the question I answers (how many POVs for one scene). The answer is, as many as you are comfortable writing. Again, so much depends on plot and character than there are no hard and fast rules, but here are a few guidelines depending on what you are trying to achieve.
If you're trying to establish the relationship between two characters (call them A and B), one of which is the narrator, having a third character (C) there can allow another voice to come through in his actions/responses that can shed more light on the relationship between A and B, so avoids the somewhat clunky thing of characters explaining their own relationships. For example (and this is oversimplified a lot), saying:
A hated B, and on seeing him, his hand went to his blade. sounds far more clunky than:
B entered, and A caught sight of him, immediately reaching for his sword. C stepped back, seeming suddenly wary of his companion (A)
If, on the other hand, you're trying to create an intimate and personal scene between A and B, then removing other characters (either by not featuring them, or just literally distancing A and B from them) can obviously add to that effect. To continue the example above:
A's sword was out in a flash, and B copied the movement, a sequence they had perfected across a dozen duels. Now, no one else in the room mattered; it was only the two of them, staring into eyes brimming with hatred. The crowd around them seemed to fade away to nothingness as the fight began.
So this allows you to focus on the just the two characters by distancing them from others physically and literally.
On the other hand, if you want to create a group dynamic then having more characters is better, as the interplay between them becomes a good indicator of personalities that would take a while to build up doing them one by one. If you have a character that is hostile to another who is light-hearted, then it sets the former up as grim or serious, without having to create that character in isolation.
Hope that clears it up; in general, the only rule is that there are no rules!
That clears up quite a lot actually!
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/07/15 20:22:33
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
For positioning in the chapter, it depends. If these characters feature elsewhere in the chapter, or if the end of it sets up the next event and therefore the next chapter, have it at the end. Instead, if you want to set that up, and the do something else for a bit and then come back for the next chapter, that could work to build suspense and provide contrast. Personally, though, I'd put it at the end and then lead straight into the next chapter.
Did you want a more detailed critique of it, bit by bit? I'm happy to do that if you want.
2014/07/15 20:42:19
Subject: Re:Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Grey Templar wrote: Generally, with a family or house you'll be looking at something like the factions in Game of Thrones. basically an extended family, but still close enough to have definite family ties(you can figure out how everyone is related to everyone else exactly) You can go either way, although House implies more individuals and may include unrelated persons who are bound in service while Family implies relation either by blood or marriage.
With a Clan, you are at a much larger group scale. Everyone is descended from a specific person or small group, but not everyone can say for sure exactly how. The tribal leaders will have a direct line most likely, but everyone else will be of unknown descent quality. Some people may not even be related, they've married or been adopted in.
As far as the involvement of women, a society with a strong emphasis on martial prowess could go either way. You could easily have it similar to many real life societies where, although women generally kept to the domestic sphere because of starting families, that was no real barrier. If you were a good fighter nobody cared what was between your legs. Just don't go out of the way of the story to show it. Have a good justification for it in the setting and use it to enhance the story.
I think that, depending on the fantasy series that I've read, whenever the author uses the term Clan specifically, they end up in a sort of Scottish Highlands sort of place, where it's a super small community... They're almost ALWAYS the "uber huge muscled long haired barbarian" and the chieftain nearly always rules via Might makes Right.
I agree that the involvment of women can be interesting. If you look at the Norse peoples (Norwegians, Danes, Swedes and Icelanders) the women are equals to men... they can own property, manage lands/businesses, etc (and usually, if they do own land, they are able to vote in the Thing), and while they didn't often become Vikings, they DID have to defend their homes from other Vikings who knew when their men had left the village, etc. so they often times needed to know how to fight and defend themselves.
2014/07/15 20:50:01
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Paradigm wrote: For positioning in the chapter, it depends. If these characters feature elsewhere in the chapter, or if the end of it sets up the next event and therefore the next chapter, have it at the end. Instead, if you want to set that up, and the do something else for a bit and then come back for the next chapter, that could work to build suspense and provide contrast. Personally, though, I'd put it at the end and then lead straight into the next chapter.
Did you want a more detailed critique of it, bit by bit? I'm happy to do that if you want.
Well any critique would help.
But they are just for that chapter. They will be mentioned later, and will return much later. It is the primary plot basically poking its head out and yelling. "I am the most important part of the book!"
It is also a very interesting part of the book, as it shows the villain for a brief moment.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/07/15 21:00:51
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
OK, I'll do a detailed breakdown of it and post it some point tomorrow, if that's helpful.
If the extract is primarily a plot thing, then it might well work at the beginning, as you can then kind of put it to one side, create your main character work, and then bring it back in. I suppose the best example of that sort of thing would be the Battle of the Last Alliance at the start of the first LOTR movie, it achieves the same effect of setting up the plot and then moves away from that. It's a farily common technique, but it works.
2014/07/16 19:03:28
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Ok, here's a more detailed critique. None of this is intended to be harsh, so if I go on a bit, it's just to detail a way to make this even better Please don't think I'm being negative at all, getting feedback is what all writers need so I hope this helps.
“I Hope those men return soon, it is getting dark.” Sir Derick said to himself. Derick was a man of past forty. He looked around him, the walls of stone and iron, he stood upon everyday. He heard the sounds of men singing and dancing in the center of the outpost. Which was small and quaint.
At this point, you have a character talking to himself, which can be a good thing in that it adds a level of idiosyncrasy (maybe he is used to having people around him, or wishes people were?). However, it's better to show us something rather than telling us. Instead of him saying 'it's getting dark soon', you could have him saying 'I hope those men get back soon' as 'the sun sank behind the forest and night began to set in'. This sets up the environment, the time and the character, and it's obvious what he's getting at without spelling it out. A lot of the time, leaving such things to the reader can make the reading more interesting.
The last two sentences should be one longer one with a comma as it is, or you could rephrase it to make the sounds the subject, eg 'sounds of singing and dancing rose up from the outpost's quaint courtyard.' Again, it achieves more for less, in that is serves to separate Derick from the men and their revelry, presenting him maybe as lonely and distant. You could then add in a 'wistful thought of joining them' or something like that to hammer the effect home, and follow it with something like 'instead, he spent this evening like all the others before, atop the high walls.' Again, it's saying the same thing, but binding it all together so that everything helps build character and placement and setting, rather than just focusing on one (at the moment, your first sentence is setting, the second is character, the third is setting and character and the last two are setting)
Many men stood on the walls of the outpost this day and watched the immovable forests. They all watched and watched. Waiting for nothing to happen.
Here, it might be worth linking these men to Derick in some way, so that again it's building on character rather than moving rather abruptly away from him. Even something as simple as 'today, more men than usual stood with him, all watching and waiting, and he was glad not to be alone as the chills of night crept in' (Important bit underlined) So you can see how this sets up plot (more men=something's about to happen- you could do the opposite to create a sense of false security), character (his feelings about the fact) and suspense (Watching and waiting)
The man held his Glaive against the wall resting his aching arm's strength, as he looked out once more.
First off, the comma needs to be put after 'wall', not 'strength', and again, there's an opportunity for some character work building. Is his arm aching from the fact he's been on duty for a while, or his age? I don't think glaive needs to be capitalised, either;despite what spellcheck says, it's just a noun.
Also, maybe put something in about why he stopped looking in the first place? 'He could look at the stonework (boredom), staring back at the courtyard (loneliness), staring at the sunset (carelessness/relaxation)
“Sir Derick.” Came a voice behind him. “The Forest seems calm.”
He heard the chattering of mail of and metal.
Derick turned to see a familar man. “Ah Captain Calgar, What brings you here to the outpost of the Woodland Circle?”
At this bit, there's an opportunity to set up a character in a line or two, which you should capitalise on. Readers will always judge a character on their initial impression at first, so this is your chance to really get them to think of Calgar as you do. I'd put the 'chattering of metal' with the sounds of the voice, as he would hear both at the same time, and have Derick turn as he speaks. How he turns can set up both characters and their relationship. If he turns fast, he's eager to see an old friend, if he turns slowly it's because he's not looking forward to the encounter and so on and so forth.
As for the description of Calgar, think about all the things that you instantly judge someone on (subconciously) in real life. Imagine you walked up to this guy in the street and didn't know him; what would your thoughts be? Build the description from that, and you can instantly set up the same ideas in the mind of the audience. If he's familiar, explain why. You get the idea, sell us the character as Derick sees him.
“Nothing, just heard of a nasty rumor.” Calgar replied. “But Don’t we always as the Soldiers of the Southern Guard.”
“Ah. So you know of them.”
“Yes, I’ve heard many of them. But the Circle is home to unscrupulous creatures.” Calgar motioned with his hands.
Again, more active description will really help here. How does Calgar reply? What does he do with his hands precisely? Does Derick frown or force a smile or react at all when he speaks? Obviously, you don't want a constant narrative 'he did this and said this and then the other guy said that...' but dialogue and interaction are how you build characters
“That is the life of being here South of Meroth.” Derick looked back to the forest, and it seemed like the forest had moved suddenly. “Calgar. Something’s wrong. Since I have awoken.”
Calgar smiled and shook his head. “What? The forest? Nothing ever happens in that forest. Except those damn creatures.”
“It doesn’t seem like it should, but I feel like something is wrong. When is the next patrol going?” Derick asked.
“They should be going out in a moment.”
This is the first bit where things start to go amiss, so needs to be really punchy. A forest moving is a fairly radical and improbable change, and at the moment, Derick seems to take it a little lightly. Insead of just saying 'it seemed like the forest had moved', make something of it. Say, for example, that 'to Derick's tired eyes, the dark fringe of trees seemed a little closer. But that was impossible. He rubbed the sleep from them and blinked. No, it was definitely closer now. The inexplicable feeling of dread that had plagued him since he awoke suddenly gripped him again.'
Once more, it's all about combining character and plot and getting the reader to see what you see. You could add a addendum like ''when's the next patrol going?' Derick asked, feeling suddenly nervous for his comrades in arms.'
Derick held his glaive as he watched the forest. Steadily did he watch it. But his hands shivered still. “Its unusual, usually Sir Ansel and Sir Lysander are back by now.”
“It is rarity for them to be late, they probably found some trackings of a druid or something.”
“The Druids. Those bastards frighten me so..” Sir Derick began to tightly grip his Glaive.
Here, again, you can mingle character and plot. Derick is alarmed (make him grip the glaive 'with a shaking fist' as 'his eyes scoured the instantly foreboding forest') while Calgar fails to grasp the gravity of the situation. Have him remain cheerful or mocking, making him the subject of a kind of dramatic irony (we know he's in trouble, he doesn't)
“Just last week there were reports of masses of people getting past the Outpost Guards to our west. Must be some migration.” Calgar seemed to report. “Nothing ever here, not for centuries.”
The Two men looked out as the heard a sound in the distance. Near the Forest. It seemed like dusk had finally begun to set it course. The Daylight had begun to fade.
“I live for the dusk.” Derick said aloud, trying to calm the scene. “The calm serene air, the beautiful sun, and the rise of the three moons.”
Calgar laughed. “Yes, I do as well. Probably the best thing about the Southurn Guard is that we get the best views, and the food.”
Derick smiled slightly. “I’ve been at war twice in my life, I would like to think this would be a great place to retire.”
“I’ve heard about that. But there is no war here in the south. Just the hunt.”
This is good, but you could do little more with it. Show us the three moons rather than tell us, for example.
I'd also perhaps internalise some of the thoughts here, like the bit about retiring. Put it as a thought right after the bit about 'nothing happening'. Have the wars as 'a haze of memory of old battles past' or something. Again, it's showing rather than telling.
Derick nodded his head.
Calgar smiled, something caught his eye. At that same moment Derick looked back towards the forest.
The two of them were entranced as blue lights began to emit from the forest. They were enthralled by its almost alien beauty. As a cold scream echoed in the air. Calgar stood aback. “What was that?”
This bit needs to be a lot longer, and generally more 'epic'. Here, you set up something that's going to become a major plot point, that's meant to put the audience on edge, and one or two lines doesn't really do that. I see where you're going trying to be vague, but just expand on the description, maybe throw in some reaction to it, it'll really help the situation establish itself.
Overall, you're off to a good start. Looking at this, I'll reiterate a few things to always keep in mind:
- Show, don't tell
- Make sure you're keeping the interactions, descriptions, plot and character all mixed in together. If you can get one sentence, paragraph or section to advance all of those then it'll read far better than if you keep it purely descriptive, then narrative, then explanatory.
- Always be thinking about what stuff means. Have characters act like they would, imagine them playing out this scene and put in a lot more about them. At the moment, all you really get from this is that they are old friends, one has been to war, and they're now used peace. Even in such a short piece, you could completely develop these characters. Even if you don't come back to them later, every characterised depth to be interesting.
So I hope all that was useful, and do keep on with this, there's some good stuff here. If you want any more feedback or advice, I'm more than happy to help.
2014/07/16 20:28:49
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Danka. I am rewriting it anyway it was the first draft of it.
I will keep all that in mind. I didn't post the whole thing. Its around two pages long. But the main reasoning is that some parts rush to much and the pacing is all over the things.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/16 20:29:49
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/07/16 20:34:55
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Yeah, drafting, drafting and drafting again is the life of a writer, so I hope the pointers were helpful.
Pacing is something that will probably sort itself once you get into a rhythm of writing, once you've planned out where it's going as a plot, how long it takes to get there and what happens when it does, even when you deviate from that plan (and 90% of the time you will) you at least have some idea where it's going. It's fine to have fast/slow/longer/shorter bits, though, as this is part of effect, so the only time to be concerned is if you feel like you're bogged down in a rut or you're rushing towards something. At those points, stepping away and having a good think about where it's going is the best option.
2014/07/16 22:17:59
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Is two thousand men for a large house or no? (Think California big in terms of land. It is a plains area with rough hills, but it is along the path of traders and merchants. Though they instead own a mansion and not a castle.)
Mansion or Castle for a Large House? (The house is relatively new.)
I currently have 5 Mercenary Groups, The Golden Horde (Largest and foot sloggers), The Knights of the White Lance (Heavy Calvary Specialists and pikemen), The Amberian Legion (Barbaric Mercenaries, who use hit and run tactics), The Warriors of the Bloody Sword (Sword Masters), and the Obsida Knights (Magical Soldiers, who are small and elite). The Knights of the White Lance are located in Meroth (The Setting of the first portion of the book) and number only five thousand. Should I make them an active player in the story or no? Its been bugging me, because they are just sitting there with potential but I don't know if I should bring them into the story or not. Because the golden horde will only be mentioned, and The Amberian Legion and Obsidia Knights will be apart of the book much later on. I am thinking this might be too many organizations to remember.
Look at the GoT books for Mercenary bands... He has some that cap out at a couple hundred (they only induct new members upon the death of one thus they have the exact same number no matter what), and some that are a few thousand.... I think it depends on the Mercenary's leadership that would determine how large the merc companies would be.
As for 2k men for a "Large House" it's not really knowable... do you mean that there are 2k "Knights" or 2k "fighting men"... If you're looking to cover a landmass the size of California with feudal lords, you kind of have to assume that most "lords" or mayors or whatever could really only control their lands for about a days ride on horse. I mean, look at the size of traditional areas of England... Yorkshire, Lancashire, etc.They are relatively small, and could probably be "covered" by someone on horseback in a short period of time, as this allowed greater ease in Command and Control, calling up the levied "troops" (aka, peasants with bows and gak) and greater law enforcement.
You certainly could cover the landmass of California with 2,000 knightly types, but I think it'd be a stretch to say the whole area is under great control (unless you throw in some areas that are uninhabited/uninhabitable) as any messages are going to take a lot more time to get there than me typing this up here.
As for age, really old is only "unreasonable" if you make it so... Again, look at the GoT series, and the Maester up on the Wall is basically the last surviving Targaryen, and is something like 100+ years old. In a normal medieval period this would be unreasonable, however it's a Fantasy novel, so in this realm it isn't unreasonable... You could also vary this by geographic terrain. For instance, if you have a desert dwelling nomadic people, they'd probably live short, harsh lives be outstanding warriors in their manner of warfare, but that style doesn't mesh well with the people who live in the forested areas, because the guys from the forests fight in a different way, venture into the foothills and mine stuff, so use more metal armor, etc. It's fairly similar to if you study how people lived in the Medieval periods, there was a sort of happy medium place where people lived moderate to long lives due to the climate and resource availability. As you move higher into the mountains, and farther into the deserts, resources become more scarce, living becomes harder and we see a greater tendency for violent means of acquiring necessary resources.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/16 22:30:10
2014/07/16 22:31:20
Subject: Fantasy Questions Galore (For a Book I am working on)
Is two thousand men for a large house or no? (Think California big in terms of land. It is a plains area with rough hills, but it is along the path of traders and merchants. Though they instead own a mansion and not a castle.)
Mansion or Castle for a Large House? (The house is relatively new.)
I currently have 5 Mercenary Groups, The Golden Horde (Largest and foot sloggers), The Knights of the White Lance (Heavy Calvary Specialists and pikemen), The Amberian Legion (Barbaric Mercenaries, who use hit and run tactics), The Warriors of the Bloody Sword (Sword Masters), and the Obsida Knights (Magical Soldiers, who are small and elite). The Knights of the White Lance are located in Meroth (The Setting of the first portion of the book) and number only five thousand. Should I make them an active player in the story or no? Its been bugging me, because they are just sitting there with potential but I don't know if I should bring them into the story or not. Because the golden horde will only be mentioned, and The Amberian Legion and Obsidia Knights will be apart of the book much later on. I am thinking this might be too many organizations to remember.
1) As big as you want it to be. Typically they weren't huge, and were quite varied in size. Anywhere from single sellswords hiring themselves out to traveling merchants as security to hundreds of men following an experienced captain who sold the groups services to kings. Historically, there were even entire kingdoms who sold their soldiers to others(the Italians were famous for this. The crossbowmen the French had an Agincourt were Italian)
A few thousand men under a single banner wouldn't be beyond the realm of plausibility.
2) It is certainly not unheard for people to live over a hundred years even in the middle ages. Average lifespan was certainly much shorter, but there was probably a lot of variability. If you were fortunate enough to have reasonable nutrition and didn't catch any major diseases, you had decent chances. Working class people wouldn't have had any such luck, but anyone in a skilled trade or someone who was wealthy could certainly afford things. A blacksmith who worked for a noblemen could probably expect his master to pay for his medical treatment(such as it is) if it was serious enough. Smiths are valuable employees and taking care of them would be top priority.
3) Ok, California is HUGE. Its bigger than many European countries. about 423,000 square kilometers. No way in hell are only 2,000 guys holding that much territory. Even if they were all mounted on the fastest horses. In a medieval period where it takes armed men actively holding an area you're looking at probably looking at several million. And more realistically, you're looking at a feudal kingdom instead of the holdings of a noble house where its token loyalty to the King but reality is that the nobles pay little more than lipservice to the king and are scheming against each other and the crown. See feudal era france(where the King was actually in grave danger if he left the Isle de'France)
A possible exception is if its very sparsely populated, so its mostly wilderness with a bunch of scattered settlements and towns. In which case its still a massive amount of land to hold for only 2000 guys.
4) A fortified Motte and Bailey if you aren't going for a castle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/16 22:37:33
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Please don't think I'm being negative at all, getting feedback is what all writers need so I hope this helps.