Cops Strangle to Death 350 Pound, 31 Time Arrested, Asthmatic Father of 6 Selling Illegal Cigarettes

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**kronk**

whembly wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:
Some people are bloodthirsty and don't care about rights if it's happening to someone they consider an "undesirable".

I thought he was referring to some folks ITT.

He was.

**whembly**

kronk wrote:
whembly wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:
Some people are bloodthirsty and don't care about rights if it's happening to someone they consider an "undesirable".

I thought he was referring to some folks ITT.

He was.

Well then... he's:

*does that make to too much of a fanboi???

**dogma**

Seaward wrote:

No, the determination that you have "significant experience in data analysis" relies on trust. The determination that police officers have to subdue more people in the course of their careers than data analysts does not. I'm sure, given your experience analyzing data, you could compare the number of people data analysts subdue yearly versus the number of people police officers subdue yearly, and come to some intriguing conclusions.

So you trust that I'm a data analyst? Why do you trust that, but none of my other claims?

But yeah, I'm unusual. I would say "So sue me." but you're already doing the internet equivalent of that.

Seaward wrote:

Incorrect. The issue I'm having is that you have no relevant experience.

I don't?

Many of the principles taught to LEOs regarding subduing a possible perpetrator (that may or may not be larger) are also taught in wrestling, MMA, football, and rugby; all of which are things I have experience with. Then there's all the SD classes I taught, many of which featured LEOs.

Seaward wrote:

Why do I get the feeling that your definition for that label is hilariously broad?

Because you're an unabashed, angry conservative. Who also doesn't like me.

**A Town Called Malus**

Seaward wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
You're gonna do a lot less damage to a person swinging your truncheon into the back of their knee than into their face, after all.

You tell that to Nancy Kerrigan, sir. You tell that right to her face!

Only if she tells Kelly Thomas that her injured knee which got better is worse than what happened to him. Oh wait, he's dead.

There is a difference between a violent ex-husband of a rival intentionally trying to cripple you and a police officer hitting the back of the knee with enough force to make it buckle.

**MrDwhitey**

Also, Nancy healed up and ended up winning medals.

Harding got fethed.

**kronk**

MrDwhitey wrote:
Also, Nancy healed up and ended up winning medals.

Harding got fethed.

Ah, you saw Tonya's porn tape, too?

**MrDwhitey**

Yes! I made a reference and someone got it!

**Bullockist**

dogma wrote:
Seaward wrote:

No, the determination that you have "significant experience in data analysis" relies on trust. The determination that police officers have to subdue more people in the course of their careers than data analysts does not. I'm sure, given your experience analyzing data, you could compare the number of people data analysts subdue yearly versus the number of people police officers subdue yearly, and come to some intriguing conclusions.

So you trust that I'm a data analyst? Why do you trust that, but none of my other claims?

But yeah, I'm unusual. I would say "So sue me." but you're already doing the internet equivalent of that.

Seaward wrote:

Incorrect. The issue I'm having is that you have no relevant experience.

I don't?

Many of the principles taught to LEOs regarding subduing a possible perpetrator (that may or may not be larger) are also taught in wrestling, MMA, football, and rugby; all of which are things I have experience with. Then there's all the SD classes I taught, many of which featured LEOs.

Seaward wrote:

Why do I get the feeling that your definition for that label is hilariously broad?

Because you're an unabashed, angry conservative. Who also doesn't like me.

\
I trust Dogma, even though he thinks waiters are subhumans , because he's an unabashed angry elitist..

**Jihadin**

kronk wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:
Also, Nancy healed up and ended up winning medals.

Harding got fethed.

Ah, you saw Tonya's porn tape, too?

Saved to external hard drive back in '08

**Ouze**

kronk wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:
Also, Nancy healed up and ended up winning medals.

Harding got fethed.

Ah, you saw Tonya's porn tape, too?

What was seen could not be unseen.

Also, this thread went to a weird, but not wholly unpleasant, place.

**dogma**

Bullockist wrote:

I trust Dogma, even though he thinks waiters are subhumans , because he's an unabashed angry elitist..

I'm not angry, just deliberately annoying.

Also, I don't think waiters are subhuman.

**Jihadin**

I trust very few of you all to cover my back in a fire fight manning a 240 or 249. I trust all of you to listen to me when I say "Drive through the front door to get em!!"

**kronk**

Jihadin wrote:
I trust very few of you all to cover my back in a fire fight manning a 240 or 249. I trust all of you to listen to me when I say "Drive through the front door to get em!!"

Drive, like a tank? You got it!

Dive, like physically dive in front of you? No way! I'm too good looking! Send Private Frazz first!

**gunslingerpro**

dogma wrote:

Many of the principles taught to LEOs regarding subduing a possible perpetrator (that may or may not be larger) are also taught in wrestling, MMA, football, and rugby; all of which are things I have experience with. Then there's all the SD classes I taught, many of which featured LEOs.

With this statement alone you've indicated you have no idea what you are talking about. Please, I realize you think you have experience because of a self defense course and your physical altercations in the past, but you do not wear a badge or protect property/lives for a living. You are perpetuating a falsehood, plain and simple. If your football coach taught you how to rapidly apply handcuffs or if police academies/private security firms practiced chop blocking offensive line men, you'd have a point. As is, you're just naming activities and sports that require physical preparation, not like fields.

A self defense course is not in any significant way comparable to the tactics and protocols in subduing/arrest an uncooperative subject. Your fist fight is all well and good, but your primary objective was defending yourself, not arresting your attacker.

**dogma**

gunslingerpro wrote:

A self defense course is not in any significant way comparable to the tactics and protocols in subduing/arrest an uncooperative subject. Your fist fight is all well and good, but your primary objective was defending yourself, not arresting your attacker.

The SD courses I taught which featured LEOs did involve teaching them how to subdue and arrest an attacker.

Similar principles are involved, cops aren't special; though they like to think so.

**gunslingerpro**

dogma wrote:
gunslingerpro wrote:

A self defense course is not in any significant way comparable to the tactics and protocols in subduing/arrest an uncooperative subject. Your fist fight is all well and good, but your primary objective was defending yourself, not arresting your attacker.

The SD courses I taught which featured LEOs did involve teaching them how to subdue and arrest an attacker.

Similar principles are involved, cops aren't special; though they like to think so.

EDIT: Rather than get into a pissing match, I'll agree to disagree.

I will state this: any person experienced in a field that deals with restraining and securing persons of any type (be that police, prison staff, EMTs, or private security), knows that so many things can go wrong. The chokehold was bad, should not have been used. However, no amount of training would've made that arrest easy or smooth.

Rarely is arresting an actively resisting perpetrator a single person operation, should that person have concern for their own safety and that of their subject.

**d-usa**

Homicide it is, let's see what happens after this...

NEW YORK (AP) — A chokehold used by a white police officer on a black New York City man during his arrest for selling untaxed, loose cigarettes last month caused his death, the medical examiner announced Friday, ruling it a homicide.

Eric Garner, 43, whose videotaped confrontation with police has caused widespread outcry and calls by the Rev. Al Sharpton for federal prosecution, was killed by “the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,” said medical examiner spokeswoman Julie Bolcer.

Asthma, heart disease and obesity were contributing factors, she said.

Chokeholds are prohibited by the New York Police Department. The case is being investigated by prosecutors on Staten Island, though Attorney General Eric Holder has said the Justice Department is “closely monitoring” the investigation.

The NYPD didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment on the medical examiner’s ruling. The officer who put Garner in the chokehold was stripped of his gun and badge pending the investigation, and another was placed on desk duty. Two paramedics and two EMTs were suspended without pay.

Police Commissioner William Bratton has said the officer appeared to have placed Garner in a chokehold and has ordered a top-to-bottom redesigning of use-of-force training in the NYPD.

In provocative comments Thursday, Sharpton called for the officers to be charged criminally. Sharpton believes chokeholds are used disproportionately on minorities.

**MrDwhitey**

Why were the paramedics and EMTs punished?

**cincydooley**

"was killed by “the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,” said medical examiner spokeswoman Julie Bolcer."

Maybe I'm misreading this, but it sounds like the chokehold actually didn't have any bearing on his death. It was his positioning on the ground, which most probably would have been the position he ended up in regardless of how he was restrained.....

**Ouze**

Now that it's been ruled a homicide, it seems I may be proven wrong in my predictions of a few weeks of paid vacation/suspension for the officers involved.

**dogma**

gunslingerpro wrote:

EDIT: Rather than get into a pissing match, I'll agree to disagree.

Honestly, I think we're on basically the same page. I understand LEOs need to protect themselves, and are instructed to subdue people with the assistance of other LEOs, when possible. I was merely pointing out that it isn't difficult for a single individual to subdue a larger single individual; at least in most cases.

**Hordini**

cincydooley wrote:

"was killed by “the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,” said medical examiner spokeswoman Julie Bolcer."

Maybe I'm misreading this, but it sounds like the chokehold actually didn't have any bearing on his death. It was his positioning on the ground, which most probably would have been the position he ended up in regardless of how he was restrained.....

Yeah, the way that article phrased it is not good at all. First they say he died because of the chokehold, and then they quote the medical examiner spokeswoman saying something else.

Of course they put that the chokehold killed him in the first line. Chest compression and prone positioning just don't have enough journalistic objectivity I guess.

**d-usa**

Looks like CNN actually reports better this time:

The cause of Garner's death was "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police," said Julie Bolcer, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner's office. The death was ruled a homicide.

**Jihadin**

Have they place the former LEO under arrest yet or waiting for a warrant?

**d-usa**

Jihadin wrote:
Have they place the former LEO under arrest yet or waiting for a warrant?

Well, if NY is like Oklahoma then the medical examiner doesn't decide on anything like that.

He/she just reports the findings. The District Attorney then has to decide if the homicide was justified or not and then decide to charge the cop (or not).

That's how it works here (with our own recent case with the Moore PD), I'm just guessing that NY would be similar.

**cincydooley**

d-usa wrote:
Looks like CNN actually reports better this time:

The cause of Garner's death was "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police," said Julie Bolcer, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner's office. The death was ruled a homicide.

Jesus. That's a pretty big omission from the other article......

**WarOne**

cincydooley wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Looks like CNN actually reports better this time:

The cause of Garner's death was "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police," said Julie Bolcer, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner's office. The death was ruled a homicide.

Jesus. That's a pretty big omission from the other article......

What will probably happen now is a highly publicized trial where the arresting cops will be tried for murder, the police department defending their actions, and very little getting done for quite some time as the city wrangles with ethical and racial divisions on how the police treat their citizens and their own.

**loki old fart**

It appears things like this happen in England aswell.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/family-says-epileptic-son-died-after-being-restrained-by-police-who-mistook-seizure-for-violence-9643577.html