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 Ninjakk wrote:
When one is a restriction and the other a permission, the restriction takes precedence.

I don't think that "always hit on 2+" and "always hit on 6+" are different enough to be considered of 2 different categories, like, for example one being "permission" and another "restriction". They sound exactly the same to me.

 Barrogh wrote:

 Ninjakk wrote:
When one is a restriction and the other a permission, the restriction takes precedence.

I don't think that "always hit on 2+" and "always hit on 6+" are different enough to be considered of 2 different categories, like, for example one being "permission" and another "restriction". They sound exactly the same to me.

Pssst I think it's because your quoting invisibility incorrectly

 Nem wrote:
So do they hit Flyers on a 2+? If not that answers Flings request for a example - though I suspect (I can't remember any) Always and only there has never been FAQ'd; just making it a debate feast.


I mean, Hard to hit is a BRB Flyers or FMC rule, these rules are not in the codex. Logic on this thread says Codex related hit stats should over ride them, hard to hit is worded 'Only' and at least during 6th we never questioned codex precedence on it, hard to hit restriction was above all else, and as far as I can tell this is still true. This makes 'Always' and 'Only' pretty important, imo.

Wouldn't the flyer have to be in Hover mode for Kharn to be in CC with it? Meaning hard to hit wouldn't apply anyway?

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 Nem wrote:
So do they hit Flyers on a 2+? If not that answers Flings request for a example - though I suspect (I can't remember any) Always and only there has never been FAQ'd; just making it a debate feast.


I mean, Hard to hit is a BRB Flyers or FMC rule, these rules are not in the codex. Logic on this thread says Codex related hit stats should over ride them, hard to hit is worded 'Only' and at least during 6th we never questioned codex precedence on it, hard to hit restriction was above all else, and as far as I can tell this is still true. This makes 'Always' and 'Only' pretty important, imo.

Wouldn't the flyer have to be in Hover mode for Kharn to be in CC with it? Meaning hard to hit wouldn't apply anyway?

Not talking about that situation specifically sorry, Vindicare assassins? were brought up as having something that always hits on a 2+ (shooting)? So I was moving on to what do they need to successfully roll to hit against a Swooping FC or Zooming flyer? This is both a always / only and a brb / codex (Same rule based situation). However I expect conflicting thoughts either way on all examples where we have no possible FAQ.

Vindicare doesn't always hit on 2+. He has an ammo that lets him WOUND on 2+

Bad reading comprehension on my part.

Ah ok I see. Surely it would just have been a case of Codex > BRB anyway as with Kharn vs Invisibility.

Except the new popcorn material is that the codex does not over-write a Rulebook 'only on X' Rule in cases of conflict...?

If you cast invisibility on Kharn, does he cease to exist?

In seriousness, it really would have been better if invisibility just made units BS1/WS1 when trying to attack them. This would also allow flamers and blasts to target invisible units, just as they really, really should.

 Psienesis wrote:

Hellfire shots from an Exitus rifle still carry the Sniper trait, however, and weapons with the Sniper trait can only wound a Gargantuan Creature on a 6. Either way, that's an entirely different threa

It says "any weapon the Vindicare fires"...

... he could be manning the quad-gun on an ADL and load his hellfire round into it. That'll Wound on a 2+. So it's not the Sniper trait granting the 2+, it's the bullet, specifically. Or, put another way, Vindicare Hellfire is not a +2 bonus to the Sniper rules normal effects (4+), it's a flat-out "wounds on 2+"

Actually it says:

Exitus Ammo: Each time a Vindicare Assassin fires a weapon with this special rule, choose one of the three following types of ammunition and apply the chosen ammunition’s rules to that shot:
• Shield-breaker: Invulnerable saves cannot be taken against Wounds, glancing hits, or penetrating hits from a shield-breaker round.
• Turbo-penetrator: Against vehicles, shots from a turbo-penetrator round count as Strength 10. Against all other targets, shots from a turbo-penetrator round inflict D3 Wounds, rather than just 1.
• Hellfire: Shots from a hellfire round always wound on a 2+.

So.. if the quad gun had the special rule 'Exitus Ammo' then yes, the vindicare could use hellfire rounds with it.