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2016/10/17 15:55:14
Subject: Re:Best 1-on-1 combatant in all of 40K lore
Carnikang wrote: Marneus Calgar? Cut him to ribbons and the dude barely survived.
And then got pummelled by Calgar the next time. Works both ways.
And it devoured the whole first company of the ultramarines, plus all their PDF buddies on the southern polar fortress of Maccrage, devoured a dozen worlds in the span of two months with Leviathan, led the initial invasions of the universe.... as well as led the Tyranid race in multiple conquests on any number of worlds/universes. We can't rightly say because they're history. Discounting hsi reported feats is basically saying "Sure, you've got this list of accomplishsments, but I haven't seen you do ANYTHING that means anything in my book. Go fight a space marine, even though it says here you kicked the Ultramarine Chapter Master's bucket around."
Actually, we have no idea if the Swarmlord went underground to slaughter the last of the First Company guys, and certainly didn't do it single handedly. As far as most sources say, they were just overwhelmed by Tyranids in the lowest chamber. No Swarmlord influence, just Tyranids in general. If you want to attribute all the actions of an army to it's leader, then Calgar far outclasses Swarmlord.
The Southern Fortress wasn't completely overrun - the Seventh Company found survivors, who went on to clear the place.
We can't accurately confirm anything regarding beyond this universe, so no record of the Swarmlord before then.
As far as achievements, this is all I've pulled off of Lexicanum:
Lexicanum wrote:Destroyer of the Kha'la Empire
745.M41 - Tyran and Thandros - The Swarmlord led Hive Fleet Behemoth's final assaults against Tyran and Thandros during the Imperium's first contact with the Tyranids, utterly decimating the enemy forces.
745.M41 - Battle for Macragge
During the Battle of Cold Steel Ridge, the Swarmlord directed Hive Fleet Behemoth to defeat every one of Marneus Calgar's and the Ultramarines' tactics. Calgar himself was almost killed by the Swarmlord, but managed to escape alive with the help of his Honour Guard while the Swarmlord killed the commander of Calgar's Honour Guard, Aloysius.
During the Battle of the Polar Fortresses, the Swarmlord led the attack on the Polar Fortresses of Macragge, defended by First Captain Saul Invictus of the Ultramarines' 1st Company. In the end, the entire 1st Company was killed and official Imperial reports listed the Swarmlord as slain.
991.M41 - Ichar IV - The Swarmlord is defeated in an epic duel with Marneus Calgar during the Battle of Ichar IV
997.M41 - Hodur Sector - The Swarmlord returned to attack the Imperium, leading the swiftest and greatest planetary invasions of Hive Fleet Leviathan. In the space of four months the Swarmlord oversaw the absorption of two dozen worlds including Talon, the homeworld of the Storm Falcons, and Endragiga, a major shipyard of the region.
The latest Imperial reports indicate the Swarmlord is assaulting the Orkish Empire of Octarius.
Undated:
Scouring of the Megyre System
Destruction of the Brynarr race.
Consumption of Waaagh! Gorgluk.
Battle on Kolovan, where Swarmlord was killed by Ortan Cassius and later was resurrected on one of the hive's ships
Also currently wrecking face in that Orc empire Kryptmann managed to direct them too.
As far as I've read, it looks more like the Orks are winning, what with Ghazghkull joining in.
The Tyranid race is ancient, they would have to be, and we don't know how long, or how far they have traveled. But they are here, and I assume the Swarmlord is not actually his full manifestation. Why would the embodiment of the entire Hive Mind's tactical and cunning wisdom be implanted in a Hive Tyrant no bigger than a regular one? Sure they make for imposing figures, but the fluff has seen them taken down easily,
Because reasons?
I think it's more because you only need the strategist to survive encounters with normal enemies, so the Hive Tyrant bioform is probably best - it's fast enough to move around and lead, not large enough to draw Titan-level ordnance, but can still fight off threats up to Calgar level.
He's less of a warrior, and more of a strategist.
Personally I see the Swarmlord as mainly being the strategist. A lot of emphasis is placed on it being smarter than... the Hive Mind? Whatever directs Tyranids normally. It can stab people up as well (like every great general other than Creed in 40K it seems) but I feel like it focusses on being a clever clogs. After all, the Hive Mind can just use bio-titans for actually stomping stuff.
Speaking of bio-titans, are we excluding them?
Come to think of it, the Bloodtide Bloodthirster Ka'jagga'nath was probably the most powerful Daemon I've read about. Singlehandedly turns a planet insane (or explodes others) and is so powerful the Grey Knights have to use extra protection? How many beings could resist the Bloodtide?
*Shrugs* personally that seems strange to me. Why make the strategist so multi-disciplinarian instead of focused on an explicit task and performing it to its utmost ability? Still that's just my feeling on the matter, I can't really make an argument concerning it one way or another.
I'd imagine anything in the Super Heavy Class size would be excluded, yes, since otherwise this is just a matter of Titans and Bio-Titans and then we might as well talk about space ships and space stations and then it gets even more complicated.
The Bloodthirster's problem is, again, just that no-one it beats matters so its hard to say anything about it compared to other fighters.
Honestly though it is true that a single objective best 1-on-1 fighter in 40k is probably impossible.
Anemone wrote: [
*Shrugs* personally that seems strange to me. Why make the strategist so multi-disciplinarian instead of focused on an explicit task and performing it to its utmost ability? Still that's just my feeling on the matter, I can't really make an argument concerning it one way or another.
I'd imagine anything in the Super Heavy Class size would be excluded, yes, since otherwise this is just a matter of Titans and Bio-Titans and then we might as well talk about space ships and space stations and then it gets even more complicated.
The Bloodthirster's problem is, again, just that no-one it beats matters so its hard to say anything about it compared to other fighters.
Honestly though it is true that a single objective best 1-on-1 fighter in 40k is probably impossible.
40K does it all the time. Leadership equals badassery (or whatever that trope is). Generally the higher ranking someone is the more powerful they will personally be.
I ask because unlike most other Titans bio-titans would be a single organism (and thus fulfil the best 1-on-1 combatant criteria).
Fair point. But that's the same with everybody. Unless you count Eldrad defeating Abaddon in close combat in what is probably his most impressive feat.
@SomeRandomEvilGuy: Oh, I know it does, I don't agree with it, and think in the Tyranid's case it is particularly silly, but I don't deny it, hence why I said I can't make an argument about it one way or another.
Does Eldrad beating Abaddon still count as canon? With the entire Eye Of Terror fluff now being non-canonical by Death Watch I actually thought that Eldrad's scuffle with Abby was pretty non-canonical too now.
That being said I have no doubt that Eldrad has a better chance of beating Abaddon then of beating a random Space Marine. There is a bit of a difference in power there.
Also I don't mean to ruin the fun, by no means, I enjoy doing it too. More just noting it to myself is all.
Anemone wrote: @SomeRandomEvilGuy: Oh, I know it does, I don't agree with it, and think in the Tyranid's case it is particularly silly, but I don't deny it, hence why I said I can't make an argument about it one way or another.
Does Eldrad beating Abaddon still count as canon? With the entire Eye Of Terror fluff now being non-canonical by Death Watch I actually thought that Eldrad's scuffle with Abby was pretty non-canonical too now.
That being said I have no doubt that Eldrad has a better chance of beating Abaddon then of beating a random Space Marine. There is a bit of a difference in power there.
Also I don't mean to ruin the fun, by no means, I enjoy doing it too. More just noting it to myself is all.
I do agree with you and I would prefer more commanders in 40K to be good at that but not at personally fighting. A Swarmlord is far more valuable for it's mind than it's power after all.
What time period did it occur in? As far as I know it was always set before the 13th Black Crusade.
How about this. Every nid is basically non sentient. The very few that are are just fragments of a single entity's consciousness to different extents.
Old One Eye is a portion of the will of the Swarm Lord because they are both just a portion of the consciousness of the Great Devourer.
So I propose this.... The Hive Mind. Because all it's infinite bodys are still just the one character, and it is the one entity behind everything the nids have ever done. On it's own it made the imperium so afraid they committed the most horrendous act against itself since the horus heresy.
It's every victory is exterminatus for the looser. No single entity in 40k has personally killed so many, destroyed so much, laid waste to world after world after world. Many bodys, many limbs, one character, and it can take anyone one on one.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Automatically Appended Next Post: siege of Vrkas part 3 and to counter the hive mind he can summon demons according to lore they appear around him attracted by the blood shed and he easily withstands any physicic assault and is the BEST combatant of Khorne (except for Khorne) the freaking god of war so he must be the best and since Khaines is dead Khorne is the only god of war.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/21 11:30:24
"Beyond that opening are my enemies. Behind me are warriors who would happily turn their weapons on me if they thought they could get away with it. Do you really think I'm doing this to try and impress anyone? I know who I am, and I don't give a greenskin's fart what anyone thinks of me."
- Honsou
Lance845 wrote:How about this. Every nid is basically non sentient. The very few that are are just fragments of a single entity's consciousness to different extents.
Old One Eye is a portion of the will of the Swarm Lord because they are both just a portion of the consciousness of the Great Devourer.
So I propose this.... The Hive Mind. Because all it's infinite bodys are still just the one character, and it is the one entity behind everything the nids have ever done. On it's own it made the imperium so afraid they committed the most horrendous act against itself since the horus heresy.
It's every victory is exterminatus for the looser. No single entity in 40k has personally killed so many, destroyed so much, laid waste to world after world after world. Many bodys, many limbs, one character, and it can take anyone one on one.
If we're including the Hive Mind, I propose we include Khorne. Because he controls all Khorne daemons, the strongest ones in combat, and therefore is just one character.
Of course, seeing as that isn't allowed, I don't think the Hive Mind (especially as the MIND, just the consciousness without a body) should count. It's just as much an entity as the Chaos Gods, or Gork and Mork.
Sicarius is good, but excluding UM plot armour, not as good as Lelith. She is straight up NASTY. However, I think I would rate Sicarius above Lucius, but Lucius' little trick would easily make short work of Sicarius.
I think the main fight comes up between Kharn (seeing as we can't include daemon primarchs), Lelith, and the Harlequin King. I don't think any unpowered Astartes could match that.
Lance845 wrote:How about this. Every nid is basically non sentient. The very few that are are just fragments of a single entity's consciousness to different extents.
Old One Eye is a portion of the will of the Swarm Lord because they are both just a portion of the consciousness of the Great Devourer.
So I propose this.... The Hive Mind. Because all it's infinite bodys are still just the one character, and it is the one entity behind everything the nids have ever done. On it's own it made the imperium so afraid they committed the most horrendous act against itself since the horus heresy.
It's every victory is exterminatus for the looser. No single entity in 40k has personally killed so many, destroyed so much, laid waste to world after world after world. Many bodys, many limbs, one character, and it can take anyone one on one.
If we're including the Hive Mind, I propose we include Khorne. Because he controls all Khorne daemons, the strongest ones in combat, and therefore is just one character.
Of course, seeing as that isn't allowed, I don't think the Hive Mind (especially as the MIND, just the consciousness without a body) should count. It's just as much an entity as the Chaos Gods, or Gork and Mork.
Sicarius is good, but excluding UM plot armour, not as good as Lelith. She is straight up NASTY. However, I think I would rate Sicarius above Lucius, but Lucius' little trick would easily make short work of Sicarius.
I think the main fight comes up between Kharn (seeing as we can't include daemon primarchs), Lelith, and the Harlequin King. I don't think any unpowered Astartes could match that.
I dunno about the results of sicarius vs Lucius... pretty sure sicarius's ego is large enough that you'd have two minds inhabiting the same body.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
Iron warriors 3000pt
