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 Peregrine wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Your army is still legal. The fact you only ran it for one random rule doesn't change that fact.

That's not really a fair statement. It's not just one random rule, it's an army-defining rule where having the special warlord is the whole point of taking the formation. Take away that theme element and it's not at all the same army anymore, even if all the models can still be used for something else.

Except the rule really wasn't doing much for the army in the first place. Basically nothing was lost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Not just bikes. ANY faction can skip out on troops in favor of fast attack choices. That means Chaos Biker lists, Nob Biker lists, Jump-Pack lists, Crisis Suit lists etc are all de facto on the table. You want to make a Tyranid force that's centered around Raveners? Go for it. Want to make a fluffy Night Lords raptor list? More power to you.

Meanwhile, MagicJuggler wants to pretend that 8th edition limits the type of armies you can make. Wew lad.

Oh God, I just realized something. Eldar Warp Spiders are a Fast Attack choice, and can now be spammed for only an HQ tax. We'd better hope Warp Spiders got nerfed...

Spiders aren't that bad when they are BS4 instead of BS5.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


Spiders aren't that bad when they are BS4 instead of BS5.

True, but the order of the day seems to be synergy. Who's to say you won't get a +1 to hit aura from the Avatar/Farseer power/Phoenix lord/Autarch?

 Galas wrote:
Age of 40k? 40k has remained so 40k that it has surprised me! It has taked the best things about AoS ,keep all the good things about 40k, and fixed many many problems of both games.
You can like or not somet decissions but to diminiss this new edition as "Age of 40k" is ignorant and childlish.

And a genetic falacy, by the way.

You even established that it took it's rules from Age of Sigmar. We have seen quite a lot of the core rules to have an understanding of it.

I'm not saying that the rules are stupid because they came from Age of Sigmar. I'm saying that the rules are stupid. So no, it's not a genetic fallacy; and drop the ad hominem.

 yakface wrote:

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
I just want to get a bit more clarity on something. From the rules and information we currently have available I could take an army that consists of a detachment of chaos demons and a detachment of Grey Knights if I wanted to? There is nothing out currently that states otherwise, correct?

Theoretically, there could be rules that would prevent this, but I am not seeing anything that currently says otherwise. I just want to make sure that I am not totally missing something with what has been stated so far. Thanks for any help you can supply me!

From what we've seen so far, there is nothing against this. But I'm assuming there will be some rules/guidelines that will prevent it, or at least create some negatives for doing so.

Thank you! That is what I thought, but I hope there are some rules against forming certain combos such as the one that I mentioned.

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:

 yakface wrote:

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
I just want to get a bit more clarity on something. From the rules and information we currently have available I could take an army that consists of a detachment of chaos demons and a detachment of Grey Knights if I wanted to? There is nothing out currently that states otherwise, correct?

Theoretically, there could be rules that would prevent this, but I am not seeing anything that currently says otherwise. I just want to make sure that I am not totally missing something with what has been stated so far. Thanks for any help you can supply me!

From what we've seen so far, there is nothing against this. But I'm assuming there will be some rules/guidelines that will prevent it, or at least create some negatives for doing so.

Thank you! That is what I thought, but I hope there are some rules against forming certain combos such as the one that I mentioned.

I doubt there will be any rules PREVENTING you from any combo

What I expect is that there will be a similar Allies system to 7e. However, replace all those "come the apoc" rules and replace it with like -3 CP.

As a nid player I am personally looking forward to the sheer number of elites I can bring now. That slot is always so crowded.Now I don't need to pick between zoanthropes venomthropes and malanthropes. Bring them all.

 Lance845 wrote:
As a nid player I am personally looking forward to the sheer number of elites I can bring now. That slot is always so crowded.Now I don't need to pick between zoanthropes venomthropes and malanthropes. Bring them all.

even the standard brigade detachment is gonna be pretty good for people wanting to run a horde army.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
As a nid player I am personally looking forward to the sheer number of elites I can bring now. That slot is always so crowded.Now I don't need to pick between zoanthropes venomthropes and malanthropes. Bring them all.

even the standard brigade detachment is gonna be pretty good for people wanting to run a horde army.

Currently considering a Battalion with a Vanguard.

Nets me 4 Commander points, plenty of elites, plenty of troops, and 3 HQs.

Might go brigade if I can justify 3 fast attack units. Kind of depends on what foc slots the nids occupy now.

So... anyone else thinking about fielding two brigades?

 Spreelock wrote:
So... anyone else thinking about fielding two brigades?

Wha...
But...

HOW?!

What army can possibly field 6 HQs, 12 troops, 6 elites, 6 FA and 6 HS?!

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Spreelock wrote:
So... anyone else thinking about fielding two brigades?

Wha...
But...

HOW?!

What army can possibly field 6 HQs, 12 troops, 6 elites, 6 FA and 6 HS?!

I want to say Genestealer Cults, but the HS slots might be a little too points intensive.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Spreelock wrote:
So... anyone else thinking about fielding two brigades?

Wha...
But...

HOW?!

What army can possibly field 6 HQs, 12 troops, 6 elites, 6 FA and 6 HS?!

Tyranids can easily.

HQ Tyranid Primes.
Troops Ripper Swarm bases.
Elites Lictors.
FA Sky Slashers.
Heavy Support Biovores.

Might not be a great force, but it is sure doable and can fit in a under 2,000pts I imagine.

 Robin5t wrote:
Also, I really wish the Supreme Command detachment was 3-6 instead of 3-5. That way, you could have a battle-forged detachment that was just all 6 Phoenix Lords and the Avatar of Khaine.

Here's a thought, add in Irylith, Drazhar and the Yncarn and then you can run two of those detachments with both Avatars!

OKAY OKAY, THE NEW DETACHMENT ARE HERE. I hurried up to check if my army is still valid, and these benefits are still within my reach. You wanna look how two brigades are gathered? Here's the list, my gallery also has some pictures.

Outrider Detachment [dark angels]
- Sableclaw
- Bike squad
- Bike squad
- Bike squad
- Attack bike
- Attack bike
- Nephilim

Outrider Detachment [dark angels]
- Librarian (bike)
- Librarian (bike)
- Land Speeder (typhoon) x 2
- Land Speeder (tornado) x 2
- Land Speeder
- Ravenwing Black Knights
- Land Speeder Vengeance

Brigade Detachment [dark angels]
- Company Master
- Chaplain (jump pack)
- Ezekiel
- Librarian
- Inter-rogator Chaplain (terminator)
- Tactical Squad (5-strong) + Razorback
- Tactical Squad (5-strong) + Drop Pod
- Tactical Squad (10-strong) + Drop Pod
- Tactical Squad (10-strong) + Drop Pod
- Tactical Squad (10-strong) + Rhino
- Tactical Squad (10-strong) + Rhino
- Command Squad + Rhino
- Command Squad + Razorback
- Veterans + Rhino
- Veterans + Razorback
- Terminator Squad Command + Land Raider Crusader
- Terminator Squad
- Terminator Squad
- Dreadnought + Drop Pod
- Assault Squad (10-strong)
- Assault Squad (5-strong)
- Dark Shroud
- Devastator Squad (10-strong)
- Devastator Squad (10-strong)
- Whirlwind Battery (3)
- Land Raider

Supreme Command Detachment [dark angels]
- Azrael (lord of war)
- Belial
- Company Master
- Company Master
- Company Master
- Techmarine

Patrol Detachment [space wolves]
- Bjorn the Fell-Handed + Drop Pod
- canis Wolfbourne
- Bloodclaws + Drop Pod
- Bloodclaws + Drop Pod
- Thunderwolf cavalry
- Stormwolf (transport for supreme command)

Brigade Detachment [imperial guard]
- Commissar Yarrick
- Commissar
- Primaris Psyker
- Priest
- Company Command Squad + Chimera
- Bullgryns
- Scions Platoon
- Ogryns
- Infantry Platoon (command + 2x squad, special weapons squad, conscripts)
- Infantry Platoon (command + 2x squad, special weapons squad)
- Infantry Platoon (command + 2x squad) + ALL IN CHIMERAS
- Infantry Platoon (command + 2x squad) + ALL IN CHIMERAS
- Infantry Platoon (command + 2x squad) + ALL IN CHIMERAS
- Veterans
- Veterans
- Veterans
- Valkyrie Squadron (3, transports vets)
- Hellhound
- Sentinels
- Rough Riders
- Hydra
- Deathstrike
- Leman Russ Squadron (3)

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment [imperial guard]
- Shadowsword

Super-Heavy Detachment [imperial knights]
- Knight Paladin
- Knight Errant
- Knight Warden

Patrol Detachment [cult mechanicus]
- Techpriest Dominus
- Kataphron Destroyers

Fortification Network
- Bastion
- Bunker + Defence Line + Defence Emplacement

OTHERS WITHOUT DETACHMENT
- Inquisitor
- Eversor Assassin
- Skitarii Vanguard (10-strong)
- Skitarii Vanguard (10-strong)

Have I collected these? Well, mostly, I can write a list what am I missing... oh, and I have some black templars too, maybe they fit in...

EDIT: here's the list of what I'm missing;

Dark Angels Black Knights
Dark Angels Vengeance
Dark Angels Darkshroud
Dark Angels Librarians on bike

Imperial Knights (2)

Ogryns
Scions
Rough Riders
Valkyries
Veterans

Techpriest Dominus

Bjorn the Fell-Handed
Stormwolf
half of the thunderwolf cavalry
Bloodclaws

part of the transports

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Spreelock wrote:
So... anyone else thinking about fielding two brigades?

Wha...
But...

HOW?!

What army can possibly field 6 HQs, 12 troops, 6 elites, 6 FA and 6 HS?!

Based on the current prices for the Ork Dread Mob List, an army composed of 6 Big Meks, 12 Deff Dreads, 6 Mekboy Junkas, 6 Killa Kans, and 6 Looted Wagons costs 1920 points.
It would be a lot of wasted transport capacity and the shooting would be 100% big shootas, but that's a legit army in every sense of the word.

Yeah, there are also shorter ways of doing two brigades, but we dont even know what options Command Points do (wishing recyclement on slain tyranid models for endless swarm). Tyranids could be nasty with two brigades, I just calculated list of Nids with 41 command points LOL...

I doubt recycling tyranids since they supposedly removed free models.

Also is that 41 CP army 1850 points?

Earth127 wrote:
I doubt recycling tyranids since they supposedly removed free models.

Also is that 41 CP army 1850 points?

Not nearly, consisting from three brigades + few genestealer cults detachments, point wisely 10k-15k. But this bigger scale is just too much fun, I'm definately looking for more apocalypse games in 8th edition.

Guys we don't even know if the same units are in the same force org slot ; )

Might be a bit soon to claim that your soon to be constructed army is invalidated or that you can min max your way to victory based on cheap HQ/Troop options.

Good sir, I am offended. I have no intentions on min maxing for CPs, I just want to throw 12 deff dreads at someone :V

So people are complaining that the army they have from 7th ed, using 7th ed codex and battlefield roles are now completely illegal in the new edition.

Which is a completely different.

And all the armys are getting new lists.

With us only having seen a glimpse of the rules.

And you can still play narrative or open play to take your army even if they are still illegal in matched play.

Yeah, perhaps my original point was missed, intended about fielding models currently in my collection. But the challenging part was more displayed, HOW are your's projects gonna withstand these moderations. These information that have leaked, would suggest on fielding large infantry army, as anyone can hurt anybody. Conclusion: I'm going with my tyranid swarm to have some fun

 oldzoggy wrote:
Guys we don't even know if the same units are in the same force org slot ; )

Might be a bit soon to claim that your soon to be constructed army is invalidated or that you can min max your way to victory based on cheap HQ/Troop options.

True. Personally I'm hoping slots stay the same. Unified cult mechanicus will do nicely in this system, being able to get basically any type of shooting it needs from the troop slot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the new GSC article implies that allies do exist in some form, as a GSC detachment being able to take an imperial guard detachment is mentioned as something outside the norm, rather than a given. So some limitation on detachments taken together does seem to exist.

Huh, kinda seems like my Guard army got hosed. I just have two infantry platoons... unless an infantry platoon counts as two Troops choices, we got kinda screwed. I guess the joke is on me for taking two heavy weapons squads in each platoon.

You have to build more guardsmen lots and lots, brigades, brigades and more brigades. We have to get all those re-rolls

 Spreelock wrote:
You have to build more guardsmen lots and lots, brigades, brigades and more brigades. We have to get all those re-rolls

Haha, I am honestly all set tracking down more Tallarn models to bulk out my army. Each of my platoons are 47 models (3 infantry squads, 2x heavy weapons squads all with missile launchers, and command squad), and my case cannot possibly fit anymore with two of those, twenty Roughriders, two Russes, two Company Command Squads and two Inquisitors... huh, just realized that my army has a strange obsession with the number two.

The platoon structure can sort of be a double-edged sword like that. On the one hand, we can fit a ton of stuff into a small detachment. On the other hand, it can be hard to fill out the minimum requirements for large detachments with them because you get a ton of models and they all only fill one slot.

Veteran builds on the other hand are likely to have an easier time filling out brigade detachments, since they're still fairly cheap by most armies' standards and each squad occupies its own slot. Ratlings can provide cheap elites, and Wyverns can cheaply fill out heavy support slots, with sentinels in fast attack

 Sleep Spell wrote:
Definitely food for thought and I hope CP's add to the game/list building experience. Off the top of my head I would have liked to see things done a bit different.

Maybe CP fixed to points used and each detachment chosen subtracts from your total; representing infrastructure and resources used to command different detachments. Thus driving players to fill all slots rather than the minimum. Also the Super-Heavy-Detachment with no restrictions (not even faction?) seems a little silly. I'd rather have seen Lord's of War attached and maybe limited to being part of Battalions/Brigades; making them more of centerpiece heavy hitters not sent into battles without sufficient support.

Also really hope Troops will be more than just tax, but I guess we will see as more is revealed. Hoping for the best =)

Faction limit for 1 low det is pretty silly as all models will always be same faction. Only 1 model! Amd multiple detjs don't need to share faction.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Not just bikes. ANY faction can skip out on troops in favor of fast attack choices. That means Chaos Biker lists, Nob Biker lists, Jump-Pack lists, Crisis Suit lists etc are all de facto on the table. You want to make a Tyranid force that's centered around Raveners? Go for it. Want to make a fluffy Night Lords raptor list? More power to you.

Meanwhile, MagicJuggler wants to pretend that 8th edition limits the type of armies you can make. Wew lad.

Oh God, I just realized something. Eldar Warp Spiders are a Fast Attack choice, and can now be spammed for only an HQ tax. We'd better hope Warp Spiders got nerfed...

Spiders aren't that bad when they are BS4 instead of BS5.

To me their shooting isn't what makes them broken, although it is very good. It's the ability to just negate any attempt to kill them by jumping out of LOS. And the fact that they get a 3+ save and so it takes a dedicated assault unit to clean them up in melee (since they get pseudo-Fearless from the Exarch). They'll just Hit&Run away easily if you can't kill them in one round. And we haven't even talked about Battle Focus...

Sorry if this seems like a rant, but I hope at least some of this has been toned down.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Not just bikes. ANY faction can skip out on troops in favor of fast attack choices. That means Chaos Biker lists, Nob Biker lists, Jump-Pack lists, Crisis Suit lists etc are all de facto on the table. You want to make a Tyranid force that's centered around Raveners? Go for it. Want to make a fluffy Night Lords raptor list? More power to you.

Meanwhile, MagicJuggler wants to pretend that 8th edition limits the type of armies you can make. Wew lad.

Oh God, I just realized something. Eldar Warp Spiders are a Fast Attack choice, and can now be spammed for only an HQ tax. We'd better hope Warp Spiders got nerfed...

Spiders aren't that bad when they are BS4 instead of BS5.

To me their shooting isn't what makes them broken, although it is very good. It's the ability to just negate any attempt to kill them by jumping out of LOS. And the fact that they get a 3+ save and so it takes a dedicated assault unit to clean them up in melee (since they get pseudo-Fearless from the Exarch). They'll just Hit&Run away easily if you can't kill them in one round. And we haven't even talked about Battle Focus...

Sorry if this seems like a rant, but I hope at least some of this has been toned down.

The ability to jump out of LoS is now most likely gone. Everyone has pseudo-HnR, now as well. They may have a 3+ save, but they're still S3/T3, and if having a 3+ save means you need a dedicated assault unit to clean them out, then Tac marines must be one bad- dedicated assault unit, as I've had games of unlucky dice rolls resulting in Crisis teams getting caught by remnants of a Tac squad and getting swept. Battle Focus will likely exist in some form or fashion, but I would bet my house that it wont function the same as it does now (especially as Assault weapons can be fired by -any faction- after Advancing).

And lets not forget - you want that army of all Warp Spiders? No problem. The detachment gives 3 CP. Spend wisely. You're giving up something in return for an all Warp Spider army (or in my case, my "Coming soon, to a table near you!!" army of Night Lords Raptors), and while the strategems we've seen aren't game-breaking, smart use of them -can- alter the course of a battle in your favor.

So yes, a lot of what we see now in 7th ed in regards to Warp Spiders will be toned down, on top of the fact that there are actual downsides to spamming certain FOC slots.