Do You Want Greater Complexity Back? 8th edition

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**ArbitorIan**

@OP (Because nobody else is)

I'd support a system like the old 'Chapter Traits' or the 30k Legion Special Rules.

i.e - each Chapter gets a small advantage and a small disadvantage that more or less balance each other out so that other armies don't creep up in power.

Ideally, this would be something that affects the whole army, and isn't bypassed by just avoiding certain units.

**Lord Kragan**

FudgeDumper wrote:
Ok so most people don't like complexity, but have you thought about this? What if we remove all complexity from all things, our children will turn out to be as smart as rocks. Maybe complexity isn't fun, but it serves a purpose, an educational one. Its super good, indirect education, while you do what you love. Its the complexities of this world that made us intelligent, if we remove it we might devolve into drooling troglodytes.

You might argue that people will simply not play then, and not get their dose of complexity anyway. This is true, but at least there would be an option. You might also argue that people will find complexity elsewhere, and that entertainment should not be complex. It might work today, but what about in 100 years? Maybe the simplicity creep has spread to all parts of life and our decent into ignoramusdom is steady at pace.

Nice strawman.

We are speaking of Depth actually, not complexity. Your kids will be as smart as rocks if their only activity is rote memorization rather than actually thinking, which was how 7th worked.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Talamare wrote:

A game that is too simple has little depth, regardless of the skill of the opponent.
This is because a game that is too simple has a low skill ceiling.

Chess doesn't have half a page in game mechanics, yet it's considered one of the most mentally rewarding games in the world. So no, it's not quintessential.

**MagicJuggler**

Chess also has far more "move options" than a lot of other games, and isn't "I move everything, you move everything." Chess actually encourages setting up forks, zugzwangs, etc. and has a large history of openings, plays, etc.

That being said, chess does have a major head start on "contemporary" wargaming, has been internationalized and federated, has Olympic recognition and government backing, and isn't driven by pressure to sell better Queens every 6 months.

There is a lot of mechanical complexity in 40k, but many armies are surprisingly restricted in what they can do. The meme "I move and shoot" has some basis in reality as a lot of 40k has boiled down to "can I statistically survive a beatdown" and "can I play rocket tag for objectives faster?"

**NenkotaMoon**

It's a dice roll game, so a lot of it to me is gambling and controlling the modifiers of luck. There is other crap but I've been sick recently don'y care, this thread is just some whiny bull crap anyway.