Ynnari Nerf

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**Unit1126PLL**

Crimson wrote:
It kills them because the soulburst doesn't scale with the army size; you can do each burst only once. It works OK for small detachments, but not so well for whole armies.

It is also super lame that not even the Word of Phoenix allows bypassing this limitation.

Man it would be neat if all the army rules scaled properly. SOB would be scary if they got more than one Act of faith that may not even work without having to pay points.

**HuskyWarhammer**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Crimson wrote:
It kills them because the soulburst doesn't scale with the army size; you can do each burst only once. It works OK for small detachments, but not so well for whole armies.

It is also super lame that not even the Word of Phoenix allows bypassing this limitation.

Man it would be neat if all the army rules scaled properly. SOB would be scary if they got more than one Act of faith that may not even work without having to pay points.

Acts of Faith (plural, thanks Celestine) are not only far more versatile than soul bursts, but can be done effectively at will of the player. No deaths required, no 7" range requirement, and options beyond shooting/moving/charging. I think it'd be fair to argue that AoF are much stronger than Soulburst now...not to mention that SoB have additional army benefits while SfD is pretty much the only Ynnari army rule.

**Crimson**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Crimson wrote:
It kills them because the soulburst doesn't scale with the army size; you can do each burst only once. It works OK for small detachments, but not so well for whole armies.

It is also super lame that not even the Word of Phoenix allows bypassing this limitation.

Man it would be neat if all the army rules scaled properly. SOB would be scary if they got more than one Act of faith that may not even work without having to pay points.

Acts of Faith certainly have somewhat similar scaling problem, though you can use Imagifiers to alleviate that. If the Word of Phoenix would allow bypassing the limitation, and there were cheap generic Ynnari psykers with that power then it would be more comparable.

**Unit1126PLL**

No one takes Imagifiers, and both they and Celestine cost points.

Imagifiers only work on a 4+ and only on units within 6"

**Crimson**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
No one takes Imagifiers, and both they and Celestine cost points.

Imagifiers only work on a 4+ and only on units within 6"

Right. So it is bad. And the Ynnari situation is even worse.

**tneva82**

Galef wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Galef wrote:
Well, fingers crossed whenever Ynnari get a codex (hopefully a "dual" codex with Harlies) they make Soulburst fun, fluffy and fair without making it near useless as an army wide rule.

If you only get 1-2 Soulbursts per turn and NONE in the enemy turn AND you have to pay for a specific Character to unlock it (and thus denying your army relics and WL traits) than it should NOT replace Battle Focus, Power form Pain, etc.

As it stands right now, nothing points towards them getting a "dual" codex with anyone.

Nothing except logic, which I'll grant you may not be GW's strong suit.

But right now, Ynnari only have 3 units, all characters. Harlies only have 8 total units, 4 of which are characters and 2 share the vehicle kit.
Even if you put them in the same book, it would only consist of a dozen unit entries, 2 sets for WL traits & relics and 2 sets of Stratagems. That's a small book, but at least enough content overall.
If Harlies or Ynnari get separate books, neither would be a worthwhile amount of content to merit getting a book in the first place. Harlies might get their own Codex, but if Ynnari are not part of that book, it is unlikely they'll get one at all.

-

Knights got codex with mighty two units

which were basically no different to each other as tactical marine with missile launcher and lascannon are

**Galas**

Crimson wrote:
This is bad nerf because it pretty muck kills pure Ynnari armies, but does little to cheesy tiny detachments of Yvraine + Reapers in Craftworld armies.

Thats isn't cheesy. A single unit shooting two times a turn is not a problem, even more when they need a HQ tax to do so and the rest of the SfD restrictions.

**tneva82**

Galef wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

That kind of dumb thinking is why we have Skitarii getting gutted and rolled into the stupid Cult Mechanicus book.

Um, Skitarii should never have gotten their own codex in the first place. It's all Admech.
Harlequins should never have received their own codex in 7th either. Prior to that codex, Harlies were a 1 unit entry in both the Eldar and DE codices.

Players shouldn't have to pay $40-$50 for the rules for less than a dozen units. THAT is the standard in which an "army" should merit it's own book.
Skitarii and Harlies are not whole armies in their own right, but fringe factions of larger forces. Ynnari are even less so. It anything, the rules for Ynnari would only be about a dozen pages long. Smaller than a White Dwarf. Yet GW will fill it will unneeded full and charge at least $30 for it. THAT is what should be discouraged.

-

Problem with harlies was that it was 1 entry in 2codex. Ended with different harlequins. You know somethings bad when dark eldars were allying with ce if they wanted harlies. Now if codex is smaller it should be cheaper to compensate

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niiru wrote:

There is zero reason to release codicies for armies with only 3 units, it's pointless and a waste of time and money. GW would still have the same publishing costs, so the book would still be sold for £30 or whatever, and then everyone would complain that they're paying so much money for 3 pages of rules.

Knight codex was cheaper and 3rd ed had 2 different prices depending on size so no it wouldn't not neccesarily cost same. Gw being gw they might but then again gw itself has opposite examples

**Crimson**

Galas wrote:

Thats isn't cheesy. A single unit shooting two times a turn is not a problem, even more when they need a HQ tax to do so and the rest of the SfD restrictions.

Be that as it may, there is really no point of running a pure Ynnari army anymore.

**Galas**

I agree that this new rule has scalability problems. But the previous incarnation of the rule was toxic and slowed the game a ton.

But as others have said SoB have the problem with Acts of Faith. Is the problem when they give Army Rules that are so powerfull to a wholle faction. That they don't know how to balance them in a way that scalates with the size of the army and still remains usefull but not overpowered.

**Crimson**

When the Soulburst is nerfed this hard, they should have at least compensated by letting the Ynnari keep the normal Aeldari special rules (Power from Pain, Battle Focus, etc. Not the Craftworld specific rules.)

**Shivan Reaper**

bullyboy wrote:
How does this exactly "kill" Ynnari?

The Eldar Craftworld traits are not amazing, Battle Focus is still meh. Ynnari will still soulburst at key times (yes, you will now have to plan better) but it will be less cheesy. Yvraine is still a great character, as is the Yncarne. You still have access to a wide variety of units in the same detachment and with points reductions for most Craftworld ones.
The downside is that to get access to strategems you need at least one Eldar detachment but that could simply be a Supreme Command one with a small Seer Council led by Eldrad (gain CP boosting ability warlord trait), give a second character the remnant of glory (ghosthelm to a spiritseer). Now you can use the strategms that are not Craftworld specific.

I'm tempted to play them today but want to give my Iyanden a go against their nemesis Kraken hivefleet.

Yeah, except that is not possible, in order to have any Ynnari, one of their 3 characters has to be warlord, which locks out CWE warlord traits and relics army wide

**bullyboy**

Has to be warlord or just included? Need to recheck.

**Imateria**

Shivan Reaper wrote:
bullyboy wrote:
How does this exactly "kill" Ynnari?

The Eldar Craftworld traits are not amazing, Battle Focus is still meh. Ynnari will still soulburst at key times (yes, you will now have to plan better) but it will be less cheesy. Yvraine is still a great character, as is the Yncarne. You still have access to a wide variety of units in the same detachment and with points reductions for most Craftworld ones.
The downside is that to get access to strategems you need at least one Eldar detachment but that could simply be a Supreme Command one with a small Seer Council led by Eldrad (gain CP boosting ability warlord trait), give a second character the remnant of glory (ghosthelm to a spiritseer). Now you can use the strategms that are not Craftworld specific.

I'm tempted to play them today but want to give my Iyanden a go against their nemesis Kraken hivefleet.

Yeah, except that is not possible, in order to have any Ynnari, one of their 3 characters has to be warlord, which locks out CWE warlord traits and relics army wide

Warlord traits, not relics. As long as you have a Craftworld detachment you can take a Craftworld relic.

Strength from Death is now terrible, sure you can run that one huge squad of Reapers that you want to shoot twice, but it will die turn 1 for very obvious reasons.

**Shivan Reaper**

Imateria wrote:
Shivan Reaper wrote:
bullyboy wrote:
How does this exactly "kill" Ynnari?

The Eldar Craftworld traits are not amazing, Battle Focus is still meh. Ynnari will still soulburst at key times (yes, you will now have to plan better) but it will be less cheesy. Yvraine is still a great character, as is the Yncarne. You still have access to a wide variety of units in the same detachment and with points reductions for most Craftworld ones.
The downside is that to get access to strategems you need at least one Eldar detachment but that could simply be a Supreme Command one with a small Seer Council led by Eldrad (gain CP boosting ability warlord trait), give a second character the remnant of glory (ghosthelm to a spiritseer). Now you can use the strategms that are not Craftworld specific.

I'm tempted to play them today but want to give my Iyanden a go against their nemesis Kraken hivefleet.

Yeah, except that is not possible, in order to have any Ynnari, one of their 3 characters has to be warlord, which locks out CWE warlord traits and relics army wide

Warlord traits, not relics. As long as you have a Craftworld detachment you can take a Craftworld relic.

Strength from Death is now terrible, sure you can run that one huge squad of Reapers that you want to shoot twice, but it will die turn 1 for very obvious reasons.

Might want to check pg122 in the codex, first paragraph where it talks about the requirements to take relics

**Galef**

You need a Ynnari WL to gain SfD. You need a CWE WL to gain access to traits AND relics. Since none of the Triumvirate are CWE, it is impossible to have both a Ynnari AND a CWE warlord.

**Arachnofiend**

Galef wrote:
You need a Ynnari WL to gain SfD. You need a CWE WL to gain access to traits AND relics. Since none of the Triumvirate are CWE, it is impossible to have both a Ynnari AND a CWE warlord.

You don't get the free relic, but if you have a Craftworld detachment you can spend CP for the bonus relic.

**Shivan Reaper**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Galef wrote:
You need a Ynnari WL to gain SfD. You need a CWE WL to gain access to traits AND relics. Since none of the Triumvirate are CWE, it is impossible to have both a Ynnari AND a CWE warlord.

You don't get the free relic, but if you have a Craftworld detachment you can spend CP for the bonus relic.

Think this is one for YMDC, but as I read it, since it says you get an "extra" relic, it would require you to have one to begin with

**clownshoes**

bullyboy wrote:
How does this exactly "kill" Ynnari?

The Eldar Craftworld traits are not amazing, Battle Focus is still meh. Ynnari will still soulburst at key times (yes, you will now have to plan better) but it will be less cheesy. Yvraine is still a great character, as is the Yncarne. You still have access to a wide variety of units in the same detachment and with points reductions for most Craftworld ones.
The downside is that to get access to strategems you need at least one Eldar detachment but that could simply be a Supreme Command one with a small Seer Council led by Eldrad (gain CP boosting ability warlord trait), give a second character the remnant of glory (ghosthelm to a spiritseer). Now you can use the strategms that are not Craftworld specific.

I'm tempted to play them today but want to give my Iyanden a go against their nemesis Kraken hivefleet.

It does not "kill" ynnari, it stops things like harlequin troupe spam ynnari, or dark reaper spam.

So yes ynnari has been mudered, oh the elfmanity the sailor moon eldar need to actually make a non spam list.

**wuestenfux**

BoomWolf wrote:
Ynnari needed a nerf to stop being the eldar autopick, but this is too much.

The nerf is fine. It was too strong if you ask me.
I'll still play Ynnari.

**sfshilo**

MagicJuggler wrote:
Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

Funny thing that...they need officers to order something.

**BoomWolf**

wuestenfux wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
Ynnari needed a nerf to stop being the eldar autopick, but this is too much.

The nerf is fine. It was too strong if you ask me.
I'll still play Ynnari.

There is no contradiction.
It was too good before, but now it's not good enough.

sfshilo wrote:
MagicJuggler wrote:
Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

Funny thing that...they need officers to order something.

Ynnari needs to be within 7" of something they kill. A harder requirement than bringing a few officers.

**Wayniac**

Just keep in mind Ynnari is all or nothing, either the entire army is Ynnari or none of it is, so you can't take a Ynnari detachment of say Yvraine and 10 reapers and then a CWE detachment and not lose Battle Focus etc. for SfD (which became a lot worse now obviously). You'd still get the CWE relics/traits but the CWE stuff would not benefit from Battle Focus.

**Crimson**

Wayniac wrote:
Just keep in mind Ynnari is all or nothing, either the entire army is Ynnari or none of it is, so you can't take a Ynnari detachment of say Yvraine and 10 reapers and then a CWE detachment and not lose Battle Focus etc. for SfD (which became a lot worse now obviously). You'd still get the CWE relics/traits but the CWE stuff would not benefit from Battle Focus.

All of this is wrong.

**Farseer_V2**

Wayniac wrote:
Just keep in mind Ynnari is all or nothing, either the entire army is Ynnari or none of it is, so you can't take a Ynnari detachment of say Yvraine and 10 reapers and then a CWE detachment and not lose Battle Focus etc. for SfD (which became a lot worse now obviously). You'd still get the CWE relics/traits but the CWE stuff would not benefit from Battle Focus.

None of this is correct. Ynnari is still per detachment so you can take a Ynnari Detachment in which the models benefit from SfD but lose access to Battle Focus and <Craftworld> traits and then take a pure <Craftworld> detachment that benefits from the trait and battle focus but not SfD. Additionally a Ynnari army never gets CWE relics or WL traits.

**Wayniac**

Crimson wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Just keep in mind Ynnari is all or nothing, either the entire army is Ynnari or none of it is, so you can't take a Ynnari detachment of say Yvraine and 10 reapers and then a CWE detachment and not lose Battle Focus etc. for SfD (which became a lot worse now obviously). You'd still get the CWE relics/traits but the CWE stuff would not benefit from Battle Focus.
All of this is wrong.

Is it? I thought Ynnari had to be the entire army, did they change it in an FAQ? I was talking to someone about how you'd see a Ynnari detachment with 10 reapers and Yvraine after the nerf, and he pointed out that doesn't work because the whole army has to be Ynnari or nothing does.

**Bharring**

He was misinformed. You can do exactly what you list.

**Wayniac**

Very interesting! Thanks for clearing that up.

**Unit1126PLL**

BoomWolf wrote:

Ynnari needs to be within 7" of something they kill. A harder requirement than bringing a few officers.

How many points does being within 7" of something cost?

**hobojebus**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:

Ynnari needs to be within 7" of something they kill. A harder requirement than bringing a few officers.

How many points does being within 7" of something cost?

Well that depends on a fair few factors are you hoofing it on foot? Could cost you several models and their wargear as you cross the board.

Are you in a transport that's at least 100 points on top of the units cost.

Using the web way well that's 1-3 cp plus the models lost to overwatch.

I'm gonna say it costs more then buying a guard officer.