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With the power creep going on in the codexs thus far I don't think you have anything to worry about for Necrons.

Da W wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:

valdier wrote:
I'd like to just see gauss all get rending. Leave it at -1, -2 whatever... on a 6+ they get -4 AP. This would allow anything with gauss to glance vehicles and units quite easily again. For anything with a 3+ save it's effectively doing mortal wounds. This would instantly make gauss a scary option again and doesn't overly buff the army.

Tesla needs to be fixed with 6+ is 3 hits, but additionally, we need more +1 to hit. The ubiquitous -1 to hit from most every army out there makes Tesla a non-option in the game now.

I'd actually prefer to see Gauss get +1 Damage for 6's instead of better AP.

I prefer always wound on 5s+


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Destroyers are destroyers. Should be cheaper. Cheap D3wound option.

I'd like to see lychguard, pretorians and deathmark get some love too.

"Always wound on 5+" would be a terrible rule for gauss. It'd do nothing on anything stronger than a flayer, and even flayers would only get an upgrade against land raiders.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Da W wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:

valdier wrote:
I'd like to just see gauss all get rending. Leave it at -1, -2 whatever... on a 6+ they get -4 AP. This would allow anything with gauss to glance vehicles and units quite easily again. For anything with a 3+ save it's effectively doing mortal wounds. This would instantly make gauss a scary option again and doesn't overly buff the army.

Tesla needs to be fixed with 6+ is 3 hits, but additionally, we need more +1 to hit. The ubiquitous -1 to hit from most every army out there makes Tesla a non-option in the game now.

I'd actually prefer to see Gauss get +1 Damage for 6's instead of better AP.

I prefer always wound on 5s+


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Destroyers are destroyers. Should be cheaper. Cheap D3wound option.

I'd like to see lychguard, pretorians and deathmark get some love too.

"Always wound on 5+" would be a terrible rule for gauss. It'd do nothing on anything stronger than a flayer, and even flayers would only get an upgrade against land raiders.

Yeah, and there's already a weapon that can do that - feeder mandibles.
I'd much rather they inflict an additional point of damage on a 6 to wound, in addition to the -1 armor mod they all have, because that is pretty useful.

Lots of big vehicules / monsters have T8+.
Doing one more point of DMG would be too strong (not that i wouldn't like that, but they won't go there). Any elite infantry with 2PV will suddenly become vulnerable to a swarm of warriors. Gauss has always been about destroying big stuff.

Plus if you have the same mecanic as tesla (on 6+), why would you take tesla then?

Tesla would be good against numbers, gauss would be good against heavy targets.

2 damage is wasted on 1w models.
With a single shot of tesla you can potentially kill 3 1w models.
With a single shot of gauss you could potentially kill 1 1w model, like now.

However, as gauss would still have a -1 modifier, it would be more effective against multiwound targets than tesla, as they tend to have good armor as well.

Da W wrote:
Lots of big vehicules / monsters have T8+.
Doing one more point of DMG would be too strong (not that i wouldn't like that, but they won't go there). Any elite infantry with 2PV will suddenly become vulnerable to a swarm of warriors. Gauss has always been about destroying big stuff.

Plus if you have the same mecanic as tesla (on 6+), why would you take tesla then?

Necron damage output is so pitiful at the moment that +1D for 6+ to Wound on Gauss probably wouldn't be broken. Obviously you'd probably not then want to make a bunch of the other changes people mentioned here to make Gauss better but I don't think it would be too bad.

Tesla is completely different - it works off the to-Hit roll for starters. It would also provide a good contrast between the two with Tesla being anti-horde and Gauss being anti-big stuff. Remember all those 2W models still get their save, albeit at -1.

Da W wrote:
Lots of big vehicules / monsters have T8+.
Doing one more point of DMG would be too strong (not that i wouldn't like that, but they won't go there). Any elite infantry with 2PV will suddenly become vulnerable to a swarm of warriors. Gauss has always been about destroying big stuff.

Plus if you have the same mecanic as tesla (on 6+), why would you take tesla then?

As it should be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think Tesla stuff is good right now (Tesla Immortals) with the glaring exception of the Destructor. It needs D3 damage so that when it finally gets past the armor save it can, in theory, make it worthwhile. Fingers crossed.

I kind of like where the gauss is right now. Makes it good against armor. Before it was only good against vehicles, that didn't make any sense. I also like it simple.

Necron gauss can easyily be buffed in other ways such as a 1CP stratagem that gives for example +1 on wound rolls. That would increase the damage output from Warriors and Immortals by 50% against T7 targets. Not sure if it's too much, but i believe it should be a cheap stratagem.

That would also help Gauss cannons tremendously because they are in a weird spot. Although it would perhaps make Heavy gauss unbalanced wounding on a 2+.

As for tesla, making it explode on a natural roll of 6 would give it both a boost and a nerf. A boost against -1 armies that are everywhere now (unless used with MWBD) and a nerf when used with MWBD on "regular" armies. I'd prefer consistency and also not having to babysit my tesla Immortals with an OL.

I really dislike the -1 to hit chapter tactics, it's such a nobrainer. I hope Necrons will get several dyansty traits that are balanced instead of that. Although a -1 to hit would make a silvertide army very viable.

Your proposed stratagem is identical to Veterans of the Long War, which is a 1 CP stratagem that can be used on any CSM infantry. If it isn't broken on obliterators it wouldn't be broken on heavy destroyers.

Yes, something like Veterans of the long war would be perfect. I just have a feeling that it would cost 2cp.

took a look at my national auction site and ebay.
seeing how cheap some preowned nec armys goes for, i desided to jump on now and get me some cheap necrons.

its not like they can be any worse then they currently are from a rule point when the codex drops.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
took a look at my national auction site and ebay.
seeing how cheap some preowned nec armys goes for, i desided to jump on now and get me some cheap necrons.

its not like they can be any worse then they currently are from a rule point when the codex drops.

Probably the smart way to go as it seems very unlikely that GW will be producing any new models for them.

This turns into an ""I want this'' tread and ''my plan is better than yours''.
GW already decided.
For game building purpose, buffing gauss will have to be made on all gauss stuff (S4 AP-1, S5 AP-2, S5 AP-2 D3wound, S9 Ap-4 D6W). Just looking at immortals i wonder how you will justify getting tesla then. Buff one thing to remove another, that ain't called fixing.

Da W wrote:
This turns into an ""I want this'' tread and ''my plan is better than yours''.
GW already decided.
For game building purpose, buffing gauss will have to be made on all gauss stuff (S4 AP-1, S5 AP-2, S5 AP-2 D3wound, S9 Ap-4 D6W). Just looking at immortals i wonder how you will justify getting tesla then. Buff one thing to remove another, that ain't called fixing.

That's true. It's not that simple to buff or nerf something.

There's nothing wrong with "I want this'' and ''my plan is better than yours'' as long as people can behave.
I for the fact know that my plan is better than all of yours, why? My mom told me so.

My thoughts are that the codex will come out and put the necrons back on top.

I don't want Necrons to be on top. What will my excuse be then when I lose? Bad weather??

Cheeslord wrote:
I don't want Necrons to be on top. What will my excuse be then when I lose? Bad weather??

Just do what I did: come to terms with the fact that you kind of suck at wargames.

Cheeslord wrote:
I don't want Necrons to be on top. What will my excuse be then when I lose? Bad weather??

aint "bad dices" the standard excuse?

Having gauss always wound on 5s would be dumb. A better vs of that is gauss has a inherent +1 in damage rolls.

I like the idea of necrons being back on top as much as the next guy (maybe more), but there is a real problem for balancing necrons beyond the awful index stuff we got (which I'm confident GW can and will fix). That problem will be finding a balance point where they can compete with soup factions like chaos, imperium, and eldar without overwhelming single codex armies. It's the same problem balancing tau and orks will face.

Tune them too much or make them too well rounded and the casual scene will suffer since most people play casual with a single codex. Tune them for a balance point around single codex, and you'll never see them in the winners circle at GTs because they can't soup like the codexes they will be balanced around.

For what it's worth I think they should be balanced around other codexes, Soup can be fixed, but an overtuned codex is much harder to deal with. with that in mind, I doubt Necrons, Tau, or Orks will be frequent flyers to the GT winners circles even after they get codexes.

To be honest people will probably complain about Necrons if they're anything other than bad. I've played stall/defense-heavy playstyles in enough different systems to know people get salty when they can't leafblower the enemy as much as they like; strategies that are resistant to being killed get people upset because they feel like their army doesn't function as well as it does against any other opponent, even if the matchup is ultimately balanced.

 Grimgold wrote:
I like the idea of necrons being back on top as much as the next guy (maybe more), but there is a real problem for balancing necrons beyond the awful index stuff we got (which I'm confident GW can and will fix). That problem will be finding a balance point where they can compete with soup factions like chaos, imperium, and eldar without overwhelming single codex armies. It's the same problem balancing tau and orks will face.

Tune them too much or make them too well rounded and the casual scene will suffer since most people play casual with a single codex. Tune them for a balance point around single codex, and you'll never see them in the winners circle at GTs because they can't soup like the codexes they will be balanced around.

For what it's worth I think they should be balanced around other codexes, Soup can be fixed, but an overtuned codex is much harder to deal with. with that in mind, I doubt Necrons, Tau, or Orks will be frequent flyers to the GT winners circles even after they get codexes.

I think this is pretty spot on, it would be nicer of they fixed soups before finished our codex. Would make it easier to power our codex appropriately as you say