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HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Free exalts for posts mentioning Gatling Cannons!

A Razorback with a HOG Cannon on top? Yes, please!

Also I'd like to see a teleporting assault terminator type unit. Not in Gravis armour though, give us another armour type! Little Marines have four terminator kits! We want Primaris Terminators! With Gatling Cannons!

I suggested that as an alternate weapon for Hellblasters, and then I remembered what the profile on the Onslaught looks like. Not that it's bad in that context, but it would make adding an Aggressor to an Intercessor squad a much harder sell.

Yeah we desperately need a cheap transport and one that actually competes with other armies. I love the humble rhino, but it's always been trash in game terms.

Going to disagree, from 5th to 7th for 35 point's it was a solid transport. It did both well, it was cheap and it bought what ever was inside it a few rounds of fire while they got there. Didn't have much offense on it's own but with two fire points, what it was transporting could kill things.

Not in comparison to wave serpents etc.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Free exalts for posts mentioning Gatling Cannons!

A Razorback with a HOG Cannon on top? Yes, please!

Also I'd like to see a teleporting assault terminator type unit. Not in Gravis armour though, give us another armour type! Little Marines have four terminator kits! We want Primaris Terminators! With Gatling Cannons!

I suggested that as an alternate weapon for Hellblasters, and then I remembered what the profile on the Onslaught looks like. Not that it's bad in that context, but it would make adding an Aggressor to an Intercessor squad a much harder sell.

Yeah we desperately need a cheap transport and one that actually competes with other armies. I love the humble rhino, but it's always been trash in game terms.

Going to disagree, from 5th to 7th for 35 point's it was a solid transport. It did both well, it was cheap and it bought what ever was inside it a few rounds of fire while they got there. Didn't have much offense on it's own but with two fire points, what it was transporting could kill things.

Not in comparison to wave serpents etc.

Solid, not broken. The Wave Serpent was broken as feck and only got worse from 6th to 7th.

Rhinos were the reliable workhorse that got you across the table and protected your guys for a turn. Think of it as buying a mobile pillbox fortification.

I found them good for 50 points when I used Codex: Witch Hunters, and 35 points only made them better. The current cost hurts them too much and they've become a clear victim of the change to vehicles sadly.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Free exalts for posts mentioning Gatling Cannons!

A Razorback with a HOG Cannon on top? Yes, please!

Also I'd like to see a teleporting assault terminator type unit. Not in Gravis armour though, give us another armour type! Little Marines have four terminator kits! We want Primaris Terminators! With Gatling Cannons!

I suggested that as an alternate weapon for Hellblasters, and then I remembered what the profile on the Onslaught looks like. Not that it's bad in that context, but it would make adding an Aggressor to an Intercessor squad a much harder sell.

Yeah we desperately need a cheap transport and one that actually competes with other armies. I love the humble rhino, but it's always been trash in game terms.

Going to disagree, from 5th to 7th for 35 point's it was a solid transport. It did both well, it was cheap and it bought what ever was inside it a few rounds of fire while they got there. Didn't have much offense on it's own but with two fire points, what it was transporting could kill things.

Not in comparison to wave serpents etc.

Solid, not broken. The Wave Serpent was broken as feck and only got worse from 6th to 7th.

Rhinos were the reliable workhorse that got you across the table and protected your guys for a turn. Think of it as buying a mobile pillbox fortification.

I found them good for 50 points when I used Codex: Witch Hunters, and 35 points only made them better. The current cost hurts them too much and they've become a clear victim of the change to vehicles sadly.

Nah, razorbacks should have been 10 man transport. I mean rhinos are now expensive as feth compared to 7th.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Free exalts for posts mentioning Gatling Cannons!

A Razorback with a HOG Cannon on top? Yes, please!

Also I'd like to see a teleporting assault terminator type unit. Not in Gravis armour though, give us another armour type! Little Marines have four terminator kits! We want Primaris Terminators! With Gatling Cannons!

I suggested that as an alternate weapon for Hellblasters, and then I remembered what the profile on the Onslaught looks like. Not that it's bad in that context, but it would make adding an Aggressor to an Intercessor squad a much harder sell.

Yeah we desperately need a cheap transport and one that actually competes with other armies. I love the humble rhino, but it's always been trash in game terms.

Going to disagree, from 5th to 7th for 35 point's it was a solid transport. It did both well, it was cheap and it bought what ever was inside it a few rounds of fire while they got there. Didn't have much offense on it's own but with two fire points, what it was transporting could kill things.

Not in comparison to wave serpents etc.

Best I can remember a wave serpent was roughly three times price of a rhino, had one exit and no fire points. Was it still a great pick for the army that could take it, yes it was. That doesn't mean the rhino was a bad transport.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Nah, razorbacks should have been 10 man transport, up its cost a bit and the rhino even cheaper. All it did was travel up the board 'slow as feth'. Apart from that it was a useless unit..

Funny, because using Rhinos helped win me games with my Sisters despite being "slow as feck". Or did no one else use the extra movement vehicles could have by going Flat Out and then popping smoke on turn 1?

It was a solid workhorse and could be used to protect units effectively. It wouldn't steam roll an army for you, but it was the cost of like 3 Marines and did it's actual job well.

It's current points costs just breaks it to be honest.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Free exalts for posts mentioning Gatling Cannons!

A Razorback with a HOG Cannon on top? Yes, please!

Also I'd like to see a teleporting assault terminator type unit. Not in Gravis armour though, give us another armour type! Little Marines have four terminator kits! We want Primaris Terminators! With Gatling Cannons!

I suggested that as an alternate weapon for Hellblasters, and then I remembered what the profile on the Onslaught looks like. Not that it's bad in that context, but it would make adding an Aggressor to an Intercessor squad a much harder sell.

Yeah we desperately need a cheap transport and one that actually competes with other armies. I love the humble rhino, but it's always been trash in game terms.

Going to disagree, from 5th to 7th for 35 point's it was a solid transport. It did both well, it was cheap and it bought what ever was inside it a few rounds of fire while they got there. Didn't have much offense on it's own but with two fire points, what it was transporting could kill things.

Not in comparison to wave serpents etc.

Best I can remember a wave serpent was roughly three times price of a rhino, had one exit and no fire points. Was it still a great pick for the army that could take it, yes it was. That doesn't mean the rhino was a bad transport.

I'd pay that price if it was that useful. Still cheap in comparison to a land raider.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Nah, razorbacks should have been 10 man transport, up its cost a bit and the rhino even cheaper. All it did was travel up the board 'slow as feth'. Apart from that it was a useless unit..

Funny, because using Rhinos helped win me games with my Sisters despite being "slow as feck". Or did no one else use the extra movement vehicles could have by going Flat Out and then popping smoke on turn 1?

It was a solid workhorse and could be used to protect units effectively. It wouldn't steam roll an army for you, but it was the cost of like 3 Marines and did it's actual job well.

It's current points costs just breaks it to be honest.

Which is my main point though, 70 pnts is so bloated, look at the pnts of razorbacks. As for sisters, they were invaluable but you don't play marines the same way really.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Free exalts for posts mentioning Gatling Cannons!

A Razorback with a HOG Cannon on top? Yes, please!

Also I'd like to see a teleporting assault terminator type unit. Not in Gravis armour though, give us another armour type! Little Marines have four terminator kits! We want Primaris Terminators! With Gatling Cannons!

I suggested that as an alternate weapon for Hellblasters, and then I remembered what the profile on the Onslaught looks like. Not that it's bad in that context, but it would make adding an Aggressor to an Intercessor squad a much harder sell.

Yeah we desperately need a cheap transport and one that actually competes with other armies. I love the humble rhino, but it's always been trash in game terms.

Going to disagree, from 5th to 7th for 35 point's it was a solid transport. It did both well, it was cheap and it bought what ever was inside it a few rounds of fire while they got there. Didn't have much offense on it's own but with two fire points, what it was transporting could kill things.

Not in comparison to wave serpents etc.

Best I can remember a wave serpent was roughly three times price of a rhino, had one exit and no fire points. Was it still a great pick for the army that could take it, yes it was. That doesn't mean the rhino was a bad transport.

I'd pay that price if it was that useful. Still cheap in comparison to a land raider.

I'll agree on that point, Land Raiders have been at best meh at worst garbage for a long time. A very expensive transport to bring one assault unit to bear.

I'd argue you play Salamanders the same way since they're just as focused on running short range shooting due to their bonuses at the time, but fair point I guess.

I've been reading through the Primaris Tactica, and while I've got pages left to go, one thing stands out to me: the army lacks proper anti-tank options.

Actually some other things than plasma for special/heavy weapons in general would be nice. I still vote for Volkite of course.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'd argue you play Salamanders the same way since they're just as focused on running short range shooting due to their bonuses at the time, but fair point I guess.

I've been reading through the Primaris Tactica, and while I've got pages left to go, one thing stands out to me: the army lacks proper anti-tank options.

Actually some other things than plasma for special/heavy weapons in general would be nice. I still vote for Volkite of course.

I think the anti-tank stuff will come, SM's aren't Orks, we'll just have to wait I think, hope they come up with something cool though. I really hope they don't do away with devastators/long fangs though. Nothing cooler than a marine with a heavybolter etc.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'd argue you play Salamanders the same way since they're just as focused on running short range shooting due to their bonuses at the time, but fair point I guess.

I've been reading through the Primaris Tactica, and while I've got pages left to go, one thing stands out to me: the army lacks proper anti-tank options.

Actually some other things than plasma for special/heavy weapons in general would be nice. I still vote for Volkite of course.

I think the anti-tank stuff will come, SM's aren't Orks, we'll just have to wait I think, hope they come up with something cool though. I really hope they don't do away with devastators/long fangs though. Nothing cooler than a marine with a heavybolter etc.

that and primaris marines are new. GW seems to be focusing more on new armies that need fleshing out (p[rimaris marines, custodes, etc) armies with a mature product line just aren't getting much. I can see the logic to it. the eldar may have fine cast for a lot of their aspect warriors but they HAVE them.

Don't forget that the Vanilla Marines are over 15? years old at this point. Many of the current staff probably weren't there during the creation of the marine, but have been during the creation of Primaris.

They'll be a lot more comfortable working in that design space (and can worry a lot less about offending lore buffs). And we can already see it happening with Space Wolves, with new Wulfen Dreadnoughts and more Primaris. I'll be surprised if we see new models and lore come out for the vanilla marines in the future.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Don't forget that the Vanilla Marines are over 15? years old at this point. Many of the current staff probably weren't there during the creation of the marine, but have been during the creation of Primaris.

They'll be a lot more comfortable working in that design space (and can worry a lot less about offending lore buffs). And we can already see it happening with Space Wolves, with new Wulfen Dreadnoughts and more Primaris. I'll be surprised if we see new models and lore come out for the vanilla marines in the future.

Wulfen Dreadnoughts are likely just an upgrade option for regular Dreadnoughts. Especially since the same regular Wolfy Dreadnought makes the Wulfen dreadnought character.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Don't forget that the Vanilla Marines are over 15? years old at this point. Many of the current staff probably weren't there during the creation of the marine, but have been during the creation of Primaris.

They'll be a lot more comfortable working in that design space (and can worry a lot less about offending lore buffs). And we can already see it happening with Space Wolves, with new Wulfen Dreadnoughts and more Primaris. I'll be surprised if we see new models and lore come out for the vanilla marines in the future.

What do you mean wulfen dreadnoughts, this is the first I've heard of this, do you mean murderfang?

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Don't forget that the Vanilla Marines are over 15? years old at this point. Many of the current staff probably weren't there during the creation of the marine, but have been during the creation of Primaris.

They'll be a lot more comfortable working in that design space (and can worry a lot less about offending lore buffs). And we can already see it happening with Space Wolves, with new Wulfen Dreadnoughts and more Primaris. I'll be surprised if we see new models and lore come out for the vanilla marines in the future.

What do you mean wulfen dreadnoughts, this is the first I've heard of this, do you mean murderfang?

Warhammer Community Article Space Wolf codex goes on pre-order this week, releases the week after. Wulfen Dreads are now a standard part of the army and extend past ol' Murderfang.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Don't forget that the Vanilla Marines are over 15? years old at this point. Many of the current staff probably weren't there during the creation of the marine, but have been during the creation of Primaris.

They'll be a lot more comfortable working in that design space (and can worry a lot less about offending lore buffs). And we can already see it happening with Space Wolves, with new Wulfen Dreadnoughts and more Primaris. I'll be surprised if we see new models and lore come out for the vanilla marines in the future.

What do you mean wulfen dreadnoughts, this is the first I've heard of this, do you mean murderfang?

"As well as bringing Primaris Space Marines fully into the fold, the codex is packed with tweaks and improvements to every part of your army. There are even some brand-new datasheets, giving you never-seen-before options like Wulfen Dreadnoughts or Wolf Guard Terminators clad in Cataphractii and Tartaros pattern armour. We’ll be previewing the new codex throughout the next week with a closer look at what it means for you and your army, so stay tuned!"

It's down in the Codex Section of this post
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/12/coming-soon-new-models-and-a-new-battle-in-a-box/

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Don't forget that the Vanilla Marines are over 15? years old at this point. Many of the current staff probably weren't there during the creation of the marine, but have been during the creation of Primaris.

They'll be a lot more comfortable working in that design space (and can worry a lot less about offending lore buffs). And we can already see it happening with Space Wolves, with new Wulfen Dreadnoughts and more Primaris. I'll be surprised if we see new models and lore come out for the vanilla marines in the future.

What do you mean wulfen dreadnoughts, this is the first I've heard of this, do you mean murderfang?

"As well as bringing Primaris Space Marines fully into the fold, the codex is packed with tweaks and improvements to every part of your army. There are even some brand-new datasheets, giving you never-seen-before options like Wulfen Dreadnoughts or Wolf Guard Terminators clad in Cataphractii and Tartaros pattern armour. We’ll be previewing the new codex throughout the next week with a closer look at what it means for you and your army, so stay tuned!"

It's down in the Codex Section of this post
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/12/coming-soon-new-models-and-a-new-battle-in-a-box/

Brilliant, when is it being released?

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Don't forget that the Vanilla Marines are over 15? years old at this point. Many of the current staff probably weren't there during the creation of the marine, but have been during the creation of Primaris.

They'll be a lot more comfortable working in that design space (and can worry a lot less about offending lore buffs). And we can already see it happening with Space Wolves, with new Wulfen Dreadnoughts and more Primaris. I'll be surprised if we see new models and lore come out for the vanilla marines in the future.

What do you mean wulfen dreadnoughts, this is the first I've heard of this, do you mean murderfang?

"As well as bringing Primaris Space Marines fully into the fold, the codex is packed with tweaks and improvements to every part of your army. There are even some brand-new datasheets, giving you never-seen-before options like Wulfen Dreadnoughts or Wolf Guard Terminators clad in Cataphractii and Tartaros pattern armour. We’ll be previewing the new codex throughout the next week with a closer look at what it means for you and your army, so stay tuned!"

It's down in the Codex Section of this post
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/12/coming-soon-new-models-and-a-new-battle-in-a-box/

Brilliant, when is it being released?

the 25th preorders on the 18th.

Leaked release is 25th Aug, Pre-orders next week

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Leaked release is 25th Aug, Pre-orders next week

Hope we see Russ.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Leaked release is 25th Aug, Pre-orders next week

Hope we see Russ.

Looks very unlikely to me that he'd be in the codex. Too little time to hype him properly.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'd argue you play Salamanders the same way since they're just as focused on running short range shooting due to their bonuses at the time, but fair point I guess.

I've been reading through the Primaris Tactica, and while I've got pages left to go, one thing stands out to me: the army lacks proper anti-tank options.

Actually some other things than plasma for special/heavy weapons in general would be nice. I still vote for Volkite of course.

I think the anti-tank stuff will come, SM's aren't Orks, we'll just have to wait I think, hope they come up with something cool though. I really hope they don't do away with devastators/long fangs though. Nothing cooler than a marine with a heavybolter etc.

I really don't think they really have much of an issue with anti-tank. They are lacking S9 and could really do with some lascannon equivalents but the amount of overcharged plasma they can lay down is crazy. But, from experience, you need to dedicate about 30% of your list to take down armour. Basically a little plasma-toting task force within the main army. The Redemptor with macro plasma thingy is actually a pretty effective tank hunter, but I always, always, without fail have to Re-roll the dice for the amount of shots it gets off. (Shakes fist at dice gods)

Banville wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'd argue you play Salamanders the same way since they're just as focused on running short range shooting due to their bonuses at the time, but fair point I guess.

I've been reading through the Primaris Tactica, and while I've got pages left to go, one thing stands out to me: the army lacks proper anti-tank options.

Actually some other things than plasma for special/heavy weapons in general would be nice. I still vote for Volkite of course.

I think the anti-tank stuff will come, SM's aren't Orks, we'll just have to wait I think, hope they come up with something cool though. I really hope they don't do away with devastators/long fangs though. Nothing cooler than a marine with a heavybolter etc.

I really don't think they really have much of an issue with anti-tank. They are lacking S9 and could really do with some lascannon equivalents but the amount of overcharged plasma they can lay down is crazy. But, from experience, you need to dedicate about 30% of your list to take down armour. Basically a little plasma-toting task force within the main army. The Redemptor with macro plasma thingy is actually a pretty effective tank hunter, but I always, always, without fail have to Re-roll the dice for the amount of shots it gets off. (Shakes fist at dice gods)

Really plasma against Alitoc I see you like to die often.
Also Plasma historically lorewise wasn't an anti tank weapon, it was anti heavy infantry, lascannons are for anti tank.
Unfortunately Hellblasters being primarus's only anti tank is probably one of the reasons that plasma is OP in 8th edition, but it's also made it the perfect anti primaris weapon.

Also marines especially primaris don't play as IMHO they should do, they should be able to do anything OK but not be the best at anything making them the tac list specialist. Intercessors kinda do this appart from being way overcosted. Agressors with boltstorms are insane but right now need strike from the shadows to actually be the terrors that people math hammer them as.

Nobody around here plays Alaitoc, so I've been spared that so far. But I see what you mean. I agree that they do need a dedicated lascannon team and they also need a proper combat unit. Aggressors are great anti horde and I've found they work even without SFTS. But you have to use them as a counterpunch unit, if you try and advance them across the board, shouting 'Chaaaaaarge' they get minced. They're priority number one for incoming fire and the Repulsor is just far too expensive to use as a bus for them. Your Aggressors will get there but your 300pt tank will be a smoking wreck at the bottom of turn 2.

Elite Primaris..

It's the only unit primaris are missing.

How about a form of open topped transport, like a Grav platform of sorts that can move super fast yet has a shield on it to protect the unit inside. Run aggressors up the field on it yet they class as not moving but can shoot from the platform and boom you have your anti horde unit.

I thought when they released hell blasters we’d end up seeing more of them with different weapon combo’s quite soon but we didn’t... I think the dreadnaught needs more options as well. A dedicated anti tank platform with stronger missiles and quad lascannons or twin linked las talons or something.

I personally don’t want to see bikes. Bikes are boring to me.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Leaked release is 25th Aug, Pre-orders next week

Hope we see Russ.

we won't. Russ if he returns, IF, will be returning as part of a big event, not just "ohh by the way"'d into the codex.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
How about a form of open topped transport, like a Grav platform of sorts that can move super fast yet has a shield on it to protect the unit inside. Run aggressors up the field on it yet they class as not moving but can shoot from the platform and boom you have your anti horde unit.

I thought when they released hell blasters we’d end up seeing more of them with different weapon combo’s quite soon but we didn’t... I think the dreadnaught needs more options as well. A dedicated anti tank platform with stronger missiles and quad lascannons or twin linked las talons or something.

I personally don’t want to see bikes. Bikes are boring to me.

Yeah, I don't want bikes either. I don't think the concept works at all. Scout bikes, yeah, but guys mounting cavalry charges on motorbikes? Nah.

An ATV like Mantic's Mule would be cool. Sweet model by the way.

I'd like, just cos it'd be cool, some sort of quad-mounted autocannon thing that can move along on tracks or big chunky wheels.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Leaked release is 25th Aug, Pre-orders next week

Hope we see Russ.

we won't. Russ if he returns, IF, will be returning as part of a big event, not just "ohh by the way"'d into the codex.

Absolutely. I am certain they will make people buy another book to run him when he does get a release

Maybe the next primarch will be in the next round of codexes.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

"As well as bringing Primaris Space Marines fully into the fold, the codex is packed with tweaks and improvements to every part of your army. There are even some brand-new datasheets, giving you never-seen-before options like Wulfen Dreadnoughts or Wolf Guard Terminators clad in Cataphractii and Tartaros pattern armour. We’ll be previewing the new codex throughout the next week with a closer look at what it means for you and your army, so stay tuned!"

It's down in the Codex Section of this post
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/12/coming-soon-new-models-and-a-new-battle-in-a-box/

I'm bummed they didn't say:
"As well as bringing Primaris Space Marines fully into the pack, the codex is filled with...". Wolf jokes are best jokes!

Excited to see what all they get. Wonder if they'll make it so Long Fangs get "Helfrost Cannons" and tell you to just use the Grav Cannons?