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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Agreed. But it's hardly surprising seeing as the 8th edition dark elf army book basically made them into "dark eldar in the middle ages" and threw in the whole "slaanesh stealing elf souls" shtick from 40K into Fantasy for some reason. It makes sense in 40k where the eldar created slaanesh (so the god is trying to eat its creators) but in fantasy slaanesh always existed and wasn't created by the elves.

It's amusing because, if anything, I'd actually prefer Dark Eldar becoming more like Dark Elves, rather than the other way around.

If nothing else, I'd like to have actual DE psykers. I suspect I'm in the minority on this one, but to my mind Dark Eldar is just crying out for the psychic equivalent of the Lore of Dark Magic.

Well, iirc the reason they don't have psykers is because they don't want to attract the attention of demons.
But then again, capturing psykers and using them as a decoy to lure demons elsewhere where they won't bother the Dark Eldar seems like something they would do. Maybe they can have a psyker slave unit, or an psychic potential-Haemonculous creation that uses powers based on pain and suffering, which is intended to be used as demon bait (demons are attracted to pain, I would think), but could be combat effective as well.

Also after 10,000 years their ability to even use Psychic powers has stunted. They are still Eldar and still a psychic race, they just can't use them properly. Also Vect says no and what Vect says is law.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Agreed. But it's hardly surprising seeing as the 8th edition dark elf army book basically made them into "dark eldar in the middle ages" and threw in the whole "slaanesh stealing elf souls" shtick from 40K into Fantasy for some reason. It makes sense in 40k where the eldar created slaanesh (so the god is trying to eat its creators) but in fantasy slaanesh always existed and wasn't created by the elves.

It's amusing because, if anything, I'd actually prefer Dark Eldar becoming more like Dark Elves, rather than the other way around.

If nothing else, I'd like to have actual DE psykers. I suspect I'm in the minority on this one, but to my mind Dark Eldar is just crying out for the psychic equivalent of the Lore of Dark Magic.

Well, iirc the reason they don't have psykers is because they don't want to attract the attention of demons.
But then again, capturing psykers and using them as a decoy to lure demons elsewhere where they won't bother the Dark Eldar seems like something they would do. Maybe they can have a psyker slave unit, or an psychic potential-Haemonculous creation that uses powers based on pain and suffering, which is intended to be used as demon bait (demons are attracted to pain, I would think), but could be combat effective as well.

Also after 10,000 years their ability to even use Psychic powers has stunted. They are still Eldar and still a psychic race, they just can't use them properly. Also Vect says no and what Vect says is law.

Oh yeah, that's right, that is a thing that happened. All the more reason for them to enslave other psykers then, to force them to use powers for their benefit.
You'd think Haemonculi would be particularly keen on experimenting on them too, seeing as they are basically Space Dr. Mengeles and all.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh yeah, that's right, that is a thing that happened. All the more reason for them to enslave other psykers then, to force them to use powers for their benefit.
You'd think Haemonculi would be particularly keen on experimenting on them too, seeing as they are basically Space Dr. Mengeles and all.

Haemonculi still won't dare cross Vect, even in secret. Not worth the risk.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh yeah, that's right, that is a thing that happened. All the more reason for them to enslave other psykers then, to force them to use powers for their benefit.
You'd think Haemonculi would be particularly keen on experimenting on them too, seeing as they are basically Space Dr. Mengeles and all.

Haemonculi still won't dare cross Vect, even in secret. Not worth the risk.

Oh not even experimentation or slaves then? Well there goes that idea then.

Well, if not actual psykers, what about a Mandrake HQ with weird, pseudo-magical powers?

(Given that Mandrakes seem to have all manner of weird powers in the fluff.)

 vipoid wrote:

Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that the new primarchs are absurdly oversized.

No, you're most certainly not the only one

I actually have a project on the back burner (meaning that it may happen one day, but I'm not holding my breath) to convert up each of the Primarchs using Primaris models (because Primaris Marines don't exist in my 40K either ). I don't mind Primarchs being a little bigger than regular marines, but Guilliman is just absurd. It looks silly on the tabletop, and it raises all sorts of practical issues with ship and building design.

 vipoid wrote:
Well, if not actual psykers, what about a Mandrake HQ with weird, pseudo-magical powers?

(Given that Mandrakes seem to have all manner of weird powers in the fluff.)

The problem with Psykers is that they're just too dangerous to have around. It just takes one Kabalite goofing around with them and getting it very wrong to blow a hole into the warp, inviting in a Daemon horde and starting a Disjunction.

As for Haemonculi, they'll have a very good idea on how psychic powers work just by experimenting on Aeldari in general. I just wish they'd follow up on that with the anti-psyker tech, things like the Crucible of Malediction were really cool but it's like nobodies bothered with implementing it. Same can go for the Necrons.

 insaniak wrote:

No, you're most certainly not the only one

I actually have a project on the back burner (meaning that it may happen one day, but I'm not holding my breath) to convert up each of the Primarchs using Primaris models (because Primaris Marines don't exist in my 40K either ). I don't mind Primarchs being a little bigger than regular marines, but Guilliman is just absurd. It looks silly on the tabletop, and it raises all sorts of practical issues with ship and building design.

Yeah, I think Pimarchs being Primaris-size would be fine. It would help them stand out (especially when combined with more elaborate armour, weapons etc.), without making them look out of place.

Guilliman looks like a 40k model for an entirely different scale of game.

 Imateria wrote:

The problem with Psykers is that they're just too dangerous to have around. It just takes one Kabalite goofing around with them and getting it very wrong to blow a hole into the warp, inviting in a Daemon horde and starting a Disjunction.

Fair enough. But that's why my second suggestion was for a Mandrake HQ - since they could have some weird abilities without actually needing to be psykers (in the fluff, Mandrakes can teleport in and out of shadows and reflections - even past Vect's own wards -, drain the strength from other creatures, manifest that stolen strength into blasts of cold fire etc.). Seems like more could be done with that than the current, one-dimensional unit.

 Imateria wrote:

As for Haemonculi, they'll have a very good idea on how psychic powers work just by experimenting on Aeldari in general. I just wish they'd follow up on that with the anti-psyker tech, things like the Crucible of Malediction were really cool but it's like nobodies bothered with implementing it. Same can go for the Necrons.

Yeah, so much supposed anti-psyker tech just doesn't do a whole lot in game. The Crucible of Malediction is supposed to be an absolutely nightmarish weapon (even by the standards of 40k), yet all it does is lightly tickle nearby psykers, and then only once per game.

Primarchs being this giant freaks just screws over with so much previous lore, like... the Lion Helmet the watcher in the dark of Azrael has.

And all the other Primarch reliqs in current 40k.

I mean I would have 0 problems with demon primarchs being giants, thats why they are demons. But normal primarchs should be, at max, one head taller than a Custodes/Primaris.

 Galas wrote:
Primarchs being this giant freaks just screws over with so much previous lore, like... the Lion Helmet the watcher in the dark of Azrael has.

And all the other Primarch reliqs in current 40k.

I mean I would have 0 problems with demon primarchs being giants, thats why they are demons. But normal primarchs should be, at max, one head taller than a Custodes/Primaris.

40k Model scale does not represent "real" scale.

Raptors old metal to current plastic, hated that.

 vipoid wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

No, you're most certainly not the only one

I actually have a project on the back burner (meaning that it may happen one day, but I'm not holding my breath) to convert up each of the Primarchs using Primaris models (because Primaris Marines don't exist in my 40K either ). I don't mind Primarchs being a little bigger than regular marines, but Guilliman is just absurd. It looks silly on the tabletop, and it raises all sorts of practical issues with ship and building design.

Yeah, I think Pimarchs being Primaris-size would be fine. It would help them stand out (especially when combined with more elaborate armour, weapons etc.), without making them look out of place.

Guilliman looks like a 40k model for an entirely different scale of game.

+1 to this. Guilliman looks odd next to other marines IMHO, which breaks the visual cohesion of the army. Plus he is positively spindly looking next to the new Abaddon.

On the other hand the miniature makes a great basis for a power-armoured Daemon Prince!

This is relative to the when they are made.

Abaddon. He's so absolutely monumentally huge. He's an Astartes, not a Primarch. It detracts from the fact that an Astartes (though Warp-fuelled to a large degree) who has achieved so much.

The new CSMs. It's an absolute crime that they are monopose, and worse that the Havocs are monopose AND come with a pitiful array of weapons. The sculpts are great, but with today's technology, they shouldn't be limited to what generally limited metal models.

The new Obliterators I'm not a fan of either - as with the above, they're lovely sculpts, but these don't look flesh metal and the speedo and legwarmer look isn't great.

 ChazSexington wrote:


The new Obliterators I'm not a fan of either - as with the above, they're lovely sculpts, but these don't look flesh metal and the speedo and legwarmer look isn't great.

They look like a mutated Bane in power armor..

The old models looked gak too though.

 ChazSexington wrote:
Abaddon. He's so absolutely monumentally huge. He's an Astartes, not a Primarch.

It has been a central part of Abaddon's fluff, literally since he was first introduced in 2nd edition, that (some) people believe he's a clone of Horus. Blame the stupid HH lore for making the primarchs huge in the first place, but Abaddon absolutely has to be of a size that would justify people thinking he's a Horus clone.

Almost all of them. Wrecked Cypher, wrecked flayed ones, wrecked deaomonettes, ect

I dislike the new Oblits. The old were worse but the new ones look like mini hel brutes. I always thought of oblits as more terminator sized.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Duskweaver wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Abaddon. He's so absolutely monumentally huge. He's an Astartes, not a Primarch.

It has been a central part of Abaddon's fluff, literally since he was first introduced in 2nd edition, that (some) people believe he's a clone of Horus. Blame the stupid HH lore for making the primarchs huge in the first place, but Abaddon absolutely has to be of a size that would justify people thinking he's a Horus clone.

Ive always hated that the primarchs are lolgiants.

Table wrote:
I dislike the new Oblits. The old were worse but the new ones look like mini hel brutes. I always thought of oblits as more terminator sized.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Duskweaver wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Abaddon. He's so absolutely monumentally huge. He's an Astartes, not a Primarch.

It has been a central part of Abaddon's fluff, literally since he was first introduced in 2nd edition, that (some) people believe he's a clone of Horus. Blame the stupid HH lore for making the primarchs huge in the first place, but Abaddon absolutely has to be of a size that would justify people thinking he's a Horus clone.

Ive always hated that the primarchs are lolgiants.

terminator armour = tactical dreadnought armour, so the mini helbrute thing actually makes sense.

Table wrote:
I dislike the new Oblits. The old were worse but the new ones look like mini hel brutes. I always thought of oblits as more terminator sized.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Duskweaver wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Abaddon. He's so absolutely monumentally huge. He's an Astartes, not a Primarch.

It has been a central part of Abaddon's fluff, literally since he was first introduced in 2nd edition, that (some) people believe he's a clone of Horus. Blame the stupid HH lore for making the primarchs huge in the first place, but Abaddon absolutely has to be of a size that would justify people thinking he's a Horus clone.

Ive always hated that the primarchs are lolgiants.

Agree with both points. I prefer the "style of ugliness" of the old Obliterators, as well as the scale.

Guilliman is goofy looking in his scale, and sadly, now Abaddon is too.

Just to specify - I really like the sculpt of Abaddon, just not the size.

 Andersp90 wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:


The new Obliterators I'm not a fan of either - as with the above, they're lovely sculpts, but these don't look flesh metal and the speedo and legwarmer look isn't great.

They look like a mutated Bane in power armor..

The old models looked gak too though.

For their age, I think they were fine-ish. Finecast was the main issue.

 Duskweaver wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Abaddon. He's so absolutely monumentally huge. He's an Astartes, not a Primarch.

It has been a central part of Abaddon's fluff, literally since he was first introduced in 2nd edition, that (some) people believe he's a clone of Horus. Blame the stupid HH lore for making the primarchs huge in the first place, but Abaddon absolutely has to be of a size that would justify people thinking he's a Horus clone.

That would mean he's something like 220cm or something - that's large for an Astartes. Just look at his HH model. His 40k model is the equivalent of something like 3+ metres.

 ChazSexington wrote:
That would mean he's something like 220cm or something - that's large for an Astartes. Just look at his HH model. His 40k model is the equivalent of something like 3+ metres.

220cm is not particularly large for an Astartes. They're supposed to average 7 feet tall, which is about 213cm. I don't think 7cm above average height is sufficiently tall to make people think "I wonder if he's a cloned primarch?" when primarchs are in the region of 9-12 feet tall.

For the record, I also hate that GW decided primarchs were 9-12 feet tall. But given that they did, Abaddon has to be at least somewhere near the bottom of that range for the Horus-clone rumour to seem plausible in-universe. And Horus was supposed to have been one of the larger primarchs.

Abaddon's also not THAAAT much larger then a standard terminator, his base and pose just makes him look much bigger

Looking through the model ranges of Factions I collect, the one that stands out the most as a PASS on purchase is the Ork Painboy, with the swiss army klaw.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Abaddon - They took the poster child for Napoleon Syndrome in the 40k setting, and rather than making him smaller, made him much bigger? The fools.

And 5x what would be a reasonable price point.

So you think that model should retail at roughly £8? In 2019? Um, no.

Duh, it is a medium sized piece of polystyrene.

 sing your life wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Abaddon - They took the poster child for Napoleon Syndrome in the 40k setting, and rather than making him smaller, made him much bigger? The fools.

And 5x what would be a reasonable price point.

So you think that model should retail at roughly £8? In 2019? Um, no.

Duh, it is a medium sized piece of polystyrene.

Thats rather reductionist. It's like saying I am a fatty bag of salty water. Or David is a hunk of stone.

 sing your life wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Abaddon - They took the poster child for Napoleon Syndrome in the 40k setting, and rather than making him smaller, made him much bigger? The fools.

And 5x what would be a reasonable price point.

So you think that model should retail at roughly £8? In 2019? Um, no.

Duh, it is a medium sized piece of polystyrene.

So? The same can be said of literally any model out there, not just GW. Every single one is made for pence on the pound. Now, I'm not defending GW on their price of him, as frankly it is too much and only online discounters take it down to a slightly more reasonable £30, but to ask GW to charge £8 for him is just absurd. The OG Abby cost £8 when he came out IIRC, in 1996. 23 years ago.

A more reasonable price for him would be roughly £25. Heresy Minis have this Big Boris, which is exactly the same size as Abby. I have both minis in my cabinet next to me as a type this so I'm not just pulling this out my backside (the only difference is one is made of resin and one plastic. But both are made for comparatively peanuts), so if an independent one man show can charge £20 for something roughly the same dimensions then that is the baseline, or are you going to chastise Andy too for overcharging?. Slap on another fiver of "GW tax" that they'll put there because they can and you have what I would have expected to pay for him. But you cannot think GW will give you change for a tenner from him in 2019. Look at the other updated CSM special characters- they all sit at £22-£25 range. You could work out from that what you'd expect Abby to cost. Seriously, what did you think he was going to cost before the prices came out?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Abaddon - They took the poster child for Napoleon Syndrome in the 40k setting, and rather than making him smaller, made him much bigger? The fools.

And 5x what would be a reasonable price point.

So you think that model should retail at roughly £8? In 2019? Um, no.

Duh, it is a medium sized piece of polystyrene.

So? The same can be said of literally any model out there, not just GW. Every single one is made for pence on the pound. Now, I'm not defending GW on their price of him, as frankly it is too much and only online discounters take it down to a slightly more reasonable £30, but to ask GW to charge £8 for him is just absurd. The OG Abby cost £8 when he came out IIRC, in 1996. 23 years ago.

A more reasonable price for him would be roughly £25. Heresy Minis have this Big Boris, which is exactly the same size as Abby. I have both minis in my cabinet next to me as a type this so I'm not just pulling this out my backside (the only difference is one is made of resin and one plastic. But both are made for comparatively peanuts), so if an independent one man show can charge £20 for something roughly the same dimensions then that is the baseline, or are you going to chastise Andy too for overcharging?. Slap on another fiver of "GW tax" that they'll put there because they can and you have what I would have expected to pay for him. But you cannot think GW will give you change for a tenner from him in 2019. Look at the other updated CSM special characters- they all sit at £22-£25 range. You could work out from that what you'd expect Abby to cost. Seriously, what did you think he was going to cost before the prices came out?

there's quite the difference though.
I don't feel like the new abigail is supposed to cost 3 x as much as a generic terminator lord.

Abbadon. They had a chance for a redesign and he's just as ugly. I HATE the topknot head. I put one together and painted it for my brother. My only condition was he got a haircut.

The topknot is kinda iconic though, it's key to abby's look.

It’d be interesting to see if I’m just weird, but I preferred the old (second edition I think?) Leman Russ tanks. There’s something about it- I can understand the reasons for simplifying the tracks even though I disagree, but when you compare the side plates it feels like a step backwards. The integrated side doors, the flatter front coil springs, and the simplification of the brackets that mount the side sponsons just disappoint me for example. There are elements I love about the new Russ and it’s nice from a practical side, but let’s just say after buying the new one when it first came out I got an old Emperor’s Fist tank company box for less per tank and had it sit in storage during my College days!