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Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Ah, I see someone's wheeled out the old "stale" argument.

10,000 years of history to play in on untold thousands of worlds with trillions of inhabitants is "stale"? Ten. Thousand. Years. This is longer than recorded human history so far. Do you know how much scope that gives you?

Instead we get a shoehorned in "story" to no-one asked for (well, someone did as apparently they have no imagination to make their own...) that revolves around a few big characters and no-one else. Now that is stale. 40k was a setting, a fething massive one with the scope for untold amounts of potential stories to be told in it. Who gives a feth if they're not "canon", we got along perfectly well with our own campaigns for the last 2 decades, what makes it any different now?


except we DON'T have 10 thousand years of history. first contact with the Tau was sometimes in the 700s M41, the first recorded contact with the Tyranids was likewise in the 700s M41. the Necrons had been stirring for awhile but Sanctuary 101 which is considered to be the "first battle" occured in the late 800s M41.

basicly well the IoM and Chaos have been around awhile. MOST of the armies in 40k, have actually only been active for a few hundred years.


Honestly, nobody I've ever played with has ever really seemed to care about "timeline accuracy".

And there's always the "They're not Tau, they're civilization 30012 in subsection 235 of quadrant B Sector Latinus. Encountered and warred with in millenia 34, prior to being cut off by warp storms four centuries later after stalemate brought about by Imperial bureaucratic error in fleet assignment."

10,000 years is a long time, and 250 billion stars is a lot of area to cover.


ohh sure, I mean no one's going to say Boo if you field an army of Blood Angels Primaris Mariens lead by Captain Tycho. my point simply is that for all the claims of a huge amount of history to play with most of 40ks history is basicly a "humans, eldars and orks only" club. an aweful lot of the xenos races are new arrivals. And thus doing say a big campaign book set in M 36 risks excluding them, which would be fine every now and again, bu do that too much and you lead to players of those armies feeling even further like 2nd class citizens.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/15 22:07:58


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
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Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






^Ok, but my point is that despite Orks and Eldar being the flagship races since the days of 2nd, that doesn't at all mean that there weren't/aren't other civilizations along that whole timeline, in the expanse of the galaxy. Galaxies are big.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
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USA

BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Ah, I see someone's wheeled out the old "stale" argument.

10,000 years of history to play in on untold thousands of worlds with trillions of inhabitants is "stale"? Ten. Thousand. Years. This is longer than recorded human history so far. Do you know how much scope that gives you?

Instead we get a shoehorned in "story" to no-one asked for (well, someone did as apparently they have no imagination to make their own...) that revolves around a few big characters and no-one else. Now that is stale. 40k was a setting, a fething massive one with the scope for untold amounts of potential stories to be told in it. Who gives a feth if they're not "canon", we got along perfectly well with our own campaigns for the last 2 decades, what makes it any different now?


except we DON'T have 10 thousand years of history. first contact with the Tau was sometimes in the 700s M41, the first recorded contact with the Tyranids was likewise in the 700s M41. the Necrons had been stirring for awhile but Sanctuary 101 which is considered to be the "first battle" occured in the late 800s M41.

basicly well the IoM and Chaos have been around awhile. MOST of the armies in 40k, have actually only been active for a few hundred years.


Honestly, nobody I've ever played with has ever really seemed to care about "timeline accuracy".

And there's always the "They're not Tau, they're civilization 30012 in subsection 235 of quadrant B Sector Latinus. Encountered and warred with in millenia 34, prior to being cut off by warp storms four centuries later after stalemate brought about by Imperial bureaucratic error in fleet assignment."

10,000 years is a long time, and 250 billion stars is a lot of area to cover.


ohh sure, I mean no one's going to say Boo if you field an army of Blood Angels Primaris Mariens lead by Captain Tycho. my point simply is that for all the claims of a huge amount of history to play with most of 40ks history is basicly a "humans, eldars and orks only" club. an aweful lot of the xenos races are new arrivals. And thus doing say a big campaign book set in M 36 risks excluding them, which would be fine every now and again, bu do that too much and you lead to players of those armies feeling even further like 2nd class citizens.


You act like Tau are going to ever get in a campaign book anyway!

"For the dark gods!" - A traitor guardsmen, probably before being killed. 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Sir Heckington wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Ah, I see someone's wheeled out the old "stale" argument.

10,000 years of history to play in on untold thousands of worlds with trillions of inhabitants is "stale"? Ten. Thousand. Years. This is longer than recorded human history so far. Do you know how much scope that gives you?

Instead we get a shoehorned in "story" to no-one asked for (well, someone did as apparently they have no imagination to make their own...) that revolves around a few big characters and no-one else. Now that is stale. 40k was a setting, a fething massive one with the scope for untold amounts of potential stories to be told in it. Who gives a feth if they're not "canon", we got along perfectly well with our own campaigns for the last 2 decades, what makes it any different now?


except we DON'T have 10 thousand years of history. first contact with the Tau was sometimes in the 700s M41, the first recorded contact with the Tyranids was likewise in the 700s M41. the Necrons had been stirring for awhile but Sanctuary 101 which is considered to be the "first battle" occured in the late 800s M41.

basicly well the IoM and Chaos have been around awhile. MOST of the armies in 40k, have actually only been active for a few hundred years.


Honestly, nobody I've ever played with has ever really seemed to care about "timeline accuracy".

And there's always the "They're not Tau, they're civilization 30012 in subsection 235 of quadrant B Sector Latinus. Encountered and warred with in millenia 34, prior to being cut off by warp storms four centuries later after stalemate brought about by Imperial bureaucratic error in fleet assignment."

10,000 years is a long time, and 250 billion stars is a lot of area to cover.


ohh sure, I mean no one's going to say Boo if you field an army of Blood Angels Primaris Mariens lead by Captain Tycho. my point simply is that for all the claims of a huge amount of history to play with most of 40ks history is basicly a "humans, eldars and orks only" club. an aweful lot of the xenos races are new arrivals. And thus doing say a big campaign book set in M 36 risks excluding them, which would be fine every now and again, bu do that too much and you lead to players of those armies feeling even further like 2nd class citizens.


You act like Tau are going to ever get in a campaign book anyway!


they have,m we gopt warzone Damocles last edition.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot




USA

BrianDavion wrote:
 Sir Heckington wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Ah, I see someone's wheeled out the old "stale" argument.

10,000 years of history to play in on untold thousands of worlds with trillions of inhabitants is "stale"? Ten. Thousand. Years. This is longer than recorded human history so far. Do you know how much scope that gives you?

Instead we get a shoehorned in "story" to no-one asked for (well, someone did as apparently they have no imagination to make their own...) that revolves around a few big characters and no-one else. Now that is stale. 40k was a setting, a fething massive one with the scope for untold amounts of potential stories to be told in it. Who gives a feth if they're not "canon", we got along perfectly well with our own campaigns for the last 2 decades, what makes it any different now?


except we DON'T have 10 thousand years of history. first contact with the Tau was sometimes in the 700s M41, the first recorded contact with the Tyranids was likewise in the 700s M41. the Necrons had been stirring for awhile but Sanctuary 101 which is considered to be the "first battle" occured in the late 800s M41.

basicly well the IoM and Chaos have been around awhile. MOST of the armies in 40k, have actually only been active for a few hundred years.


Honestly, nobody I've ever played with has ever really seemed to care about "timeline accuracy".

And there's always the "They're not Tau, they're civilization 30012 in subsection 235 of quadrant B Sector Latinus. Encountered and warred with in millenia 34, prior to being cut off by warp storms four centuries later after stalemate brought about by Imperial bureaucratic error in fleet assignment."

10,000 years is a long time, and 250 billion stars is a lot of area to cover.


ohh sure, I mean no one's going to say Boo if you field an army of Blood Angels Primaris Mariens lead by Captain Tycho. my point simply is that for all the claims of a huge amount of history to play with most of 40ks history is basicly a "humans, eldars and orks only" club. an aweful lot of the xenos races are new arrivals. And thus doing say a big campaign book set in M 36 risks excluding them, which would be fine every now and again, bu do that too much and you lead to players of those armies feeling even further like 2nd class citizens.


You act like Tau are going to ever get in a campaign book anyway!


they have,m we gopt warzone Damocles last edition.


Sorry, let me rephrase. In 8th edition.

"For the dark gods!" - A traitor guardsmen, probably before being killed. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Sgt_Smudge wrote:


Yes, you did have 10,000 years of history between M31 and M41, and you could play games set in any time between but only if you play Imperium (with no special characters other than Bjorn or maybe Dante if it's set in M40, and no Custodes or Sisters of Silence, unless it's set on Terra or the War of the Beast!), Chaos (but not Huron Blackheart!), Eldar (but not Prince Yriel), Dark Eldar, Orks (but no special characters!) and *maybe* just pure Genestealers as Ymgarl natives.


You could have Bjorn for most of that time, but not the earliest part, you could have Dante(in M40), you could have Cassius (in most of M40) - You could have Lysander on both ends, but not the middle. You could have Gulliman on both ends but not the middle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
They havent done nearly that poorly. The 90s grimdark cant last forever and satirical elements are mostly gone. Primaris is no more stupid than anything else theyve done. Its just unfortunate they suck in practice.


I am still convinced Primaris are only not powerful to appease classic marine players. I very much expect them to be in the good category in 9th. 13 point tactical are bad, 19 point intercessors are better but still weak. change those intercessors to 16 points each though... and yea suddenly good. 15 and you'd take as many as you can get


Intercessors are closer to 16 than they are 19 already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Imo the Grimdark is beautiful, and is what makes the 40K setting great. IMO it's absurdity is what gives 40K it's greatest defining character.

Also, I found the "stagnation" refreshing. As there is no drama. Or more precisely, the drama doesn't matter. It might matter in a little system in the corner of the galaxy, for a few years, or maybe even a thousand years. But on the galactic scale it doesn't matter. This is the 41st (or maybe 42nd) millenium. And There Is Only War.


Its still grimdark. Just because Armageddon isn't being invaded this year, but Vigilus is and Cadia has fallen doesn't mean things are all puppy kisses and rainbows. To use your own expanded thought - It might matter on Armageddon, or Cadia, but on the galactic scale it doesn't matter which world it is, there is only war.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/16 05:48:53


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
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Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






Breton wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Imo the Grimdark is beautiful, and is what makes the 40K setting great. IMO it's absurdity is what gives 40K it's greatest defining character.

Also, I found the "stagnation" refreshing. As there is no drama. Or more precisely, the drama doesn't matter. It might matter in a little system in the corner of the galaxy, for a few years, or maybe even a thousand years. But on the galactic scale it doesn't matter. This is the 41st (or maybe 42nd) millenium. And There Is Only War.


Its still grimdark. Just because Armageddon isn't being invaded this year, but Vigilus is and Cadia has fallen doesn't mean things are all puppy kisses and rainbows. To use your own expanded thought - It might matter on Armageddon, or Cadia, but on the galactic scale it doesn't matter which world it is, there is only war.


Yes, it is still Grimdark. But now it's Grimdark with drama and galaxy-wide consequences. Before, nothing really changed. Now, the Galactic map is redrawn, and factions are potentially being redefined, all centered around the actions of a couple characters.

I prefer the relative stagnation, where drama is almost meaningless beyond any particular world or war.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Insectum7 wrote:
Breton wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Imo the Grimdark is beautiful, and is what makes the 40K setting great. IMO it's absurdity is what gives 40K it's greatest defining character.

Also, I found the "stagnation" refreshing. As there is no drama. Or more precisely, the drama doesn't matter. It might matter in a little system in the corner of the galaxy, for a few years, or maybe even a thousand years. But on the galactic scale it doesn't matter. This is the 41st (or maybe 42nd) millenium. And There Is Only War.


Its still grimdark. Just because Armageddon isn't being invaded this year, but Vigilus is and Cadia has fallen doesn't mean things are all puppy kisses and rainbows. To use your own expanded thought - It might matter on Armageddon, or Cadia, but on the galactic scale it doesn't matter which world it is, there is only war.


Yes, it is still Grimdark. But now it's Grimdark with drama and galaxy-wide consequences. Before, nothing really changed. Now, the Galactic map is redrawn, and factions are potentially being redefined, all centered around the actions of a couple characters.

I prefer the relative stagnation, where drama is almost meaningless beyond any particular world or war.


the problem with that is, if before hand, you didn't feel the IoM was invested in winning a conflict, and that it was an important conflict.. then GW had failed as a story teller. we're constantly told how important Armageddon is, how Important planet X is etc. but... GW never showed it. now GW's making the stakes of these conflcits they SAY are important, clearer.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Insectum7 wrote:


Yes, it is still Grimdark. But now it's Grimdark with drama and galaxy-wide consequences. Before, nothing really changed. Now, the Galactic map is redrawn, and factions are potentially being redefined, all centered around the actions of a couple characters.

I prefer the relative stagnation, where drama is almost meaningless beyond any particular world or war.


The galaxy map is always being redrawn, if just to put The Rock in a new place and to highlight this new planet that gets to be Campaign Flavor Of The Month. Factions are always potentially - especially potentially - being redefined, all centered around the actions of a couple characters. The world is no more or less stagnant than ever before, the only thing changing is the artwork, not a meaningful detail.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






Breton wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:


Yes, it is still Grimdark. But now it's Grimdark with drama and galaxy-wide consequences. Before, nothing really changed. Now, the Galactic map is redrawn, and factions are potentially being redefined, all centered around the actions of a couple characters.

I prefer the relative stagnation, where drama is almost meaningless beyond any particular world or war.


The galaxy map is always being redrawn, if just to put The Rock in a new place and to highlight this new planet that gets to be Campaign Flavor Of The Month. Factions are always potentially - especially potentially - being redefined, all centered around the actions of a couple characters. The world is no more or less stagnant than ever before, the only thing changing is the artwork, not a meaningful detail.


It should be fairly obvious that the Cicatrix Maledictum is a far more substantial change to the galaxy than the position of The Rock.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight





LA

Thing is they got the point where the lore of 40k was in a pretty good place, around the time dawn of war 1-dawn of war 2 were a thing. It's a setting/backdrop for games, a sandbox. By turning it into an evolving story we could watch this game become something else entirely, and not in a good way.

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Insectum7 wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:


Yes, it is still Grimdark. But now it's Grimdark with drama and galaxy-wide consequences. Before, nothing really changed. Now, the Galactic map is redrawn, and factions are potentially being redefined, all centered around the actions of a couple characters.

I prefer the relative stagnation, where drama is almost meaningless beyond any particular world or war.


The galaxy map is always being redrawn, if just to put The Rock in a new place and to highlight this new planet that gets to be Campaign Flavor Of The Month. Factions are always potentially - especially potentially - being redefined, all centered around the actions of a couple characters. The world is no more or less stagnant than ever before, the only thing changing is the artwork, not a meaningful detail.


It should be fairly obvious that the Cicatrix Maledictum is a far more substantial change to the galaxy than the position of The Rock.


It should be fairly obvious the fictional position of a fictional navigational hazard mcguffin subject to the whims of plot armor is a far more substantial change that the fictional position of the fictional headquarters of a fictional group subject to the needs of a campaign writer who needs an Imperiall deus ex machina mcguffin? You keep talking like any and every one of these details is more powerful than the story needs and whims of the people who control every detail of a fictional world, down to the cholesterol count of Abaddon or the existence/discovery of another Pharos artefact.

I've mentioned this before. Go watch the movie Speed. Watch how often something good happens is followed by something bad, is followed by something good. You know what an action thriller is? It's two hours of a writer giving you emotional ups and downs for maximum effect. They're doing the same thing, but it's the longest Action Thriller movie ever.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/16 08:33:45


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ie
Elite Tyranid Warrior




Roscommon, Ireland

 Thargrim wrote:
Thing is they got the point where the lore of 40k was in a pretty good place, around the time dawn of war 1-dawn of war 2 were a thing. It's a setting/backdrop for games, a sandbox. By turning it into an evolving story we could watch this game become something else entirely, and not in a good way.


This.

People seem to be forgetting that 40K's lore was primarily a setting to facilitate endless conflict, it was never meant to be a story.

The setting was meant to be frozen in time of galaxy wide conflict, this allows players to justify their battles, as there was no consequence or advancement in the setting. Wiping out your opponents Tau army didn't advance the setting, it may advance the campaign you may be in. Having the setting paused and on a massive scale with impersonal characters allowed players to breathe their own creative ideas and narratives, because their actions couldn't be at loggerheads or disrupt the setting.

What GW have done is turn the setting into a story, as we all know stories have a beginning, middle, and an end. It could be that this change is what people feel the most jarring. It is asking of the lore to be something it was never meant to be, and treads the very real possibility of undoing/losing/killing off a part of the lore that people have liked for decades.

The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
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 stonehorse wrote:

People seem to be forgetting that 40K's lore was primarily a setting to facilitate endless conflict, it was never meant to be a story.

Citation Needed.
 stonehorse wrote:

The setting was meant to be frozen in time of galaxy wide conflict, this allows players to justify their battles, as there was no consequence or advancement in the setting. Wiping out your opponents Tau army didn't advance the setting, it may advance the campaign you may be in. Having the setting paused and on a massive scale with impersonal characters allowed players to breathe their own creative ideas and narratives, because their actions couldn't be at loggerheads or disrupt the setting.

What GW have done is turn the setting into a story, as we all know stories have a beginning, middle, and an end. It could be that this change is what people feel the most jarring. It is asking of the lore to be something it was never meant to be, and treads the very real possibility of undoing/losing/killing off a part of the lore that people have liked for decades.


The setting never meant to have a Second War of Armageddon, or a Third War of Armageddon? Or Tyranids, Necrons, Tau, Custodes, Sisters of Battle, Whirlwinds, Razorbacks, Land Raider Variants, Drukhari, Ursarkr Creed and a host of other IG characters, and legions, and so on? I've still got the 2nd edition army list. Anything not in that book was never meant to be?

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Citation? Try 25+ years of fluff prior to the Gathering Storm books. With the exception of worldwide events like Armageddon and EoT there was no “story” in 40k. It was a setting and always had been prior to the publication of the Gathering Storm books.

All of things you mention are either rectons/additions that were always there and “just off camera” or came after the above events.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/16 09:34:17




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If you break apart my posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
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 Grimtuff wrote:
Citation? Try 25+ years of fluff prior to the Gathering Storm books. With the exception of worldwide events like Armageddon and EoT there was no “story” in 40k. It was a setting and always had been prior to the publication of the Gathering Storm books.

All of things you mention are either rectons/additions that were always there and “just off camera” or came after the above events.


I have not read many books of black library, but the few i read have been chapters of a "story" which ultimately led to big war shaking events. Case in point the series of Baal, which ultimately led to the devastation of Baal, and the first books predate gathering storm by quite a good time.
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

I'd day the 3 major Nid invasions are story rather than settings.
Tau expansions / Farsights renegades.
Badab War.
Necron awakening (on a large scale e.g Orpheus campaign).
13 Crusades.

All of them formed major, major stories in the previous fluff and definitely were not "just a bit of setting".

And those are the ones just off the top of my head.

Edit: Taros campaign, Orpheus, Damnos campaign, World Engine campaign, The Beast wars.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/16 09:52:41


Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
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 Grimtuff wrote:
Citation? Try 25+ years of fluff prior to the Gathering Storm books. With the exception of worldwide events like Armageddon and EoT there was no “story” in 40k. It was a setting and always had been prior to the publication of the Gathering Storm books.

All of things you mention are either rectons/additions that were always there and “just off camera” or came after the above events.


I'm pretty sure EoS is a retcon/addition that was always there and just "off camera" the same as anything else you just classified as such. Sisters of Battle are not in the 2nd Edition Codex Army List that game with the boxed game. They had to be retconned, and added off camera, and the story for who they are and what they do had to be added... thus advancing the story.

For that matter, claiming 25+ years of fluff means the world is supposed to be a single moment snapshot in time as we read about the continuing adventures of Uriel Ventris rising from Squad Sergeant, to Captain, to exiled penitent crusader and back isn't a very strong argument.

If you want to say the Black Library doesn't count, do you want me to get out a few Codexes? Who is the Captain of the Ultramarine's first company? Is Lord Solar Macharius alive or dead? Did the Story Advance when Darnath Lysander returned from the Warp, and we suddenly had a whole lot more fluff about the Imperial Fists? How did everyone else get Land Raider Crusaders from the Black Templar chapter that doesn't exist in an event that doesn't exist because we didn't advance the story for 25+ years? Don't get me started on the Land Raider Redeemers that don't exist because the Salamanders affinity for flame doesn't exist.
[Thumb - 2nd_edition_codex-15113100-500px.jpg]


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






FFS... you can have stories in a setting.

What has shifted in 40k is the setting, which was previously front and centre to make your own stories in and even had stories in it (but were not huge things that would shake up the main backdrop) has now been shoved to the side to focus on a massive galactic scale story that includes a couple dozen characters and effects everything around it.

See the difference?



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Frankly, no.
The current story is just one HUGE story within the setting of the 40k universe.
It'll continue until 9th when GW will mix it all up again.
Terra will still be Terra and Chaos will still be Chaos and Nids will still eat stuff.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Ratius wrote:
Frankly, no.
The current story is just one HUGE story within the setting of the 40k universe.
It'll continue until 9th when GW will mix it all up again.
Terra will still be Terra and Chaos will still be Chaos and Nids will still eat stuff.


That's about what I figure, but apparently being surrounded on all sides in a warp storm just outside of Chaos is somehow earthshatteringly different than being surrounded on all sides in a warp storm next to Cadia.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Grimtuff wrote:
FFS... you can have stories in a setting.


I'm sorry but whats the differance between Armageddon and Vigilus? yes the gathering storm changed things, but occasionally making somer changes in the setting isn't a bad thing, 40ks been stagnant for awhile. GW had told all the stories they could tell within the setting and thus decided to have things happen that would enable changes to be made. even the return of Gulliman is, in the grand scheme of things.. kinda irrelevant.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






BrianDavion wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
FFS... you can have stories in a setting.


I'm sorry but whats the differance between Armageddon and Vigilus? yes the gathering storm changed things, but occasionally making somer changes in the setting isn't a bad thing, 40ks been stagnant for awhile.

You appear to answer your own question by acknowledging there IS a difference.

BrianDavion wrote:

GW had told all the stories they could tell within the setting and thus decided to have things happen that would enable changes to be made. even the return of Gulliman is, in the grand scheme of things.. kinda irrelevant.

How "grand" is the reference in "grand scheme of things"? Heat death of the universe? Or just "no more marines as we know them, because of Primaris". I'm not sure we do know how much will change. But there IS change, and there is a threat of more change. Because we don't know the extent of any coming changes, it's hard to say weather or not these changes will be irrelevant. I don't think we're going to be full on AOSing, but it's possible it could still be happening at just a slower pace.

As for having "told all the stories they could tell" I'll never believe that to be true. The 40K setting is gigantic. There is so much room for for story in that setting, and so much space to add more flavor or nuance, etc.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breton wrote:
Spoiler:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:


Yes, it is still Grimdark. But now it's Grimdark with drama and galaxy-wide consequences. Before, nothing really changed. Now, the Galactic map is redrawn, and factions are potentially being redefined, all centered around the actions of a couple characters.

I prefer the relative stagnation, where drama is almost meaningless beyond any particular world or war.


The galaxy map is always being redrawn, if just to put The Rock in a new place and to highlight this new planet that gets to be Campaign Flavor Of The Month. Factions are always potentially - especially potentially - being redefined, all centered around the actions of a couple characters. The world is no more or less stagnant than ever before, the only thing changing is the artwork, not a meaningful detail.


It should be fairly obvious that the Cicatrix Maledictum is a far more substantial change to the galaxy than the position of The Rock.


It should be fairly obvious the fictional position of a fictional navigational hazard mcguffin subject to the whims of plot armor is a far more substantial change that the fictional position of the fictional headquarters of a fictional group subject to the needs of a campaign writer who needs an Imperiall deus ex machina mcguffin? You keep talking like any and every one of these details is more powerful than the story needs and whims of the people who control every detail of a fictional world, down to the cholesterol count of Abaddon or the existence/discovery of another Pharos artefact.

I've mentioned this before. Go watch the movie Speed. Watch how often something good happens is followed by something bad, is followed by something good. You know what an action thriller is? It's two hours of a writer giving you emotional ups and downs for maximum effect. They're doing the same thing, but it's the longest Action Thriller movie ever.

Abaddons cholesterol count? Really? You appear to be so nonsensically misrepresenting my argument that it's really not worth responding to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ratius wrote:
Frankly, no.
The current story is just one HUGE story within the setting of the 40k universe.

But you would say that a big story is different than the addition of Hunters/Stalkers to the Space Marine army, no?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/16 17:56:49


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You heard it here first folks. There are only ever 7 stories that can be told and 40k has told them all...



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