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 Insectum7 wrote:
^Won two 2nd ed tournies with Terminators in my list so I'm just not going to agree with you.

I saw a 1st company list tabled multiple times by turn 2. Your point?

Bad players are/were bad, and running only Terminators was a dumb idea. That doesn't make them a bad unit. Try running only Aggressors in 8th and see how far you get.

The Assault Cannon was one of the best weapons in the game in 2nd. Terminators and Dreadnoughts were some of the only units to get them, and deployed right they were game-winning.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Won two 2nd ed tournies with Terminators in my list so I'm just not going to agree with you.

Nobody cares about your casual locals. It isn't good anecdotal evidence, especially for an edition KNOWN for overly broken crap.

Since you didn't even play 2nd, I'd consider your opinion even less relevant.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Won two 2nd ed tournies with Terminators in my list so I'm just not going to agree with you.

I saw a 1st company list tabled multiple times by turn 2. Your point?

Bad players are/were bad, and running only Terminators was a dumb idea. That doesn't make them a bad unit. Try running only Aggressors in 8th and see how far you get.

The Assault Cannon was one of the best weapons in the game in 2nd. Terminators and Dreadnoughts were some of the only units to get them, and deployed right they were game-winning.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Won two 2nd ed tournies with Terminators in my list so I'm just not going to agree with you.

Nobody cares about your casual locals. It isn't good anecdotal evidence, especially for an edition KNOWN for overly broken crap.

Since you didn't even play 2nd, I'd consider your opinion even less relevant.

I've played a couple of games of it. It isn't hard to figure out. On top.of that you don't have to be a trained chef to know if the cat poop you're eating tastes bad.

Watch this: "Nobody cares about your 'couple games' against locals"

It's so easy to be Slayer-Fan.

If you post something of substance I'll give you something more. Otherwise I'll leave it at that, and converse about 2nd with people who have more than such a 'casual' acquaintance with it.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Watch this: "Nobody cares about your 'couple games' against locals"

It's so easy to be Slayer-Fan.

If you post something of substance I'll give you something more. Otherwise I'll leave it at that, and converse about 2nd with people who have more than such a 'casual' acquaintance with it.

Your argument was it was easy to ignore my assessment because I never played 2nd. I'm saying that I have as it's pretty easy to procure those rules, and the game was hilariously imbalanced and that people saying "3D6 sAvE fOr TeRmInAtOrS wAs SuPeR gOoD" are letting the rose tinted glasses cloud their judgment, including you. Martel went out of his way to show they were bad and why, and then you retort "I wOn A tOuRnAmEnT aT mY lOcAlS" as your retort.

So am *I* really the one not posting anything of substance?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

So am *I* really the one not posting anything of substance?

Correct. Because broad statements and ad-hominem are less substance than the specifics I gave in response to Martel. Namely: Models had to shoot closest unit, LOS control was a big part of play and Overwatch was a powerful tool with Terminators.

Your contribution has been:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Nobody cares about your casual locals. It isn't good anecdotal evidence, especially for an edition KNOWN for overly broken crap.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I've played a couple of games of it. It isn't hard to figure out. On top.of that you don't have to be a trained chef to know if the cat poop you're eating tastes bad.

So basically "I played a couple games and your anecdotes are invalid because casual." The statement "[edition] known for broken crap" is to vague to help you in either direction (because I could also use broken stuff to my advantage with Terminators). And we have "Rose tinted glasses" in your last post. So nothing substantive other than an apparent plain misunderstanding of what substance is. Have a good day!

The jam cannon was not worth the points on the terrible unit it was attached to. It's totally rose colored glasses. Loyalist terminators have always been crap. Stormbolters could jam, too. Garbage. If your marines were living more than 2 or 3 turns, your opponents were crap in 2nd.

Chaos terminators had some solid weapons. But not loyalists.

As an additional note, your assault cannon would never gun down the 100+ fast moving hormagaunts before your whole list was in melee with nids. Without blight grenades, loyalist marines just lost to nids.

Is the Camo Cloak style ability not an option?
Crux Terminatus adds +2 to this model’s armour save.

Hit it with a -2ap weapon and it laughs it off, hit it with a -3 or -4 and it feels like it got hit by an Anti-Tank weapon

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Is the Camo Cloak style ability not an option?
Crux Terminatus adds +2 to this model’s armour save.

Hit it with a -2ap weapon and it laughs it off, hit it with a -3 or -4 and it feels like it got hit by an Anti-Tank weapon

or have it remove a flat -2AP & anything s3 the armour is actually impervious?

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Is the Camo Cloak style ability not an option?
Crux Terminatus adds +2 to this model’s armour save.

Hit it with a -2ap weapon and it laughs it off, hit it with a -3 or -4 and it feels like it got hit by an Anti-Tank weapon

or have it remove a flat -2AP & anything s3 the armour is actually impervious?

No objections from me.

Hello, I am new here. But I agree 100% with Crux Terminatus being a pointless rule. The main issue is (as an Ordo Malleus gamer in particular), Warhammer 40,000 eighth edition has broken the game.

It just makes melta even worse than it already is.

The crux terminatus should ignore 1 AP rather than giving a 5++ invul. This would effectively do the same for melta weapon (5+ save) but increase tanking versus all other weapons.

Considering I just played a game where a PF/SB Deathwing Terminator tanked a doomsday arks 5 shots because of his 5++ I'm gonna say it has some value.

But it's a relic if ap2 spam from third edition when not having that 5++ was a killer

Martel732 wrote:
The jam cannon was not worth the points on the terrible unit it was attached to. It's totally rose colored glasses. Loyalist terminators have always been crap. Stormbolters could jam, too. Garbage. If your marines were living more than 2 or 3 turns, your opponents were crap in 2nd.

Chaos terminators had some solid weapons. But not loyalists.

As an additional note, your assault cannon would never gun down the 100+ fast moving hormagaunts before your whole list was in melee with nids. Without blight grenades, loyalist marines just lost to nids.

I'd say Martel-glasses are in full effect.

The Assault Cannon was what you pointed at the big Nids, since it was S 8 D10 damage. For dealing with 100 Hormagaunts you lay on the blast markers and block movement with plasma missiles and grenades, which could further expand and knock out droves of them. As Marines youre going first againt Nids with a Strategy rating of 5 or 6 vs. 1, so make them pay for any bunched up deployment, target Synapse with heavier guns (Like the Assault Cannon), and set good positions to take advantage or rapid-fire. Have Jump units ready to run interference against the front line, and get ready with Flamers and Grenades.

I dont recall details about Blight grenades, but iirc Chaos Terminators didn't have Targeters like loyalists, and the Reaper Autocannon wasn't nearly as good as the Assault Cannon.

I literally write this as I paint up Terminators for use in 2nd edition against a Nid player.

Good luck. You'll need it vs non-scrubs.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I dont recall details about Blight grenades, but iirc Chaos Terminators didn't have Targeters like loyalists, and the Reaper Autocannon wasn't nearly as good as the Assault Cannon.

One of the things that always annoyed me playing into Chaos in 2nd ed was how much better the Reaper cannon was than my ACs, especially since it was cheaper. The AC had the potential to be better but it also had the potential to jam itself for the whole game the first time it fired, and iirc the Reaper could reroll jam dice.

It could. It was better than assault cannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It could. It was better than assault cannon.

The Newman wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I dont recall details about Blight grenades, but iirc Chaos Terminators didn't have Targeters like loyalists, and the Reaper Autocannon wasn't nearly as good as the Assault Cannon.

One of the things that always annoyed me playing into Chaos in 2nd ed was how much better the Reaper cannon was than my ACs, especially since it was cheaper. The AC had the potential to be better but it also had the potential to jam itself for the whole game the first time it fired, and iirc the Reaper could reroll jam dice.

Assault Cannon
3 Sust. Fire Dice, S8 - D10Damage, -3 Save mod. 32" range

Reaper Autocannon
2 Sust. Fire dice (reroll 1) S8 D6 Damage, -3 Save mod. 40" range

I much prefer the Assault Cannon for the Extra Sust. Dice and especially the D10 Damage. Each shot of the Assault Cannon hit Armor with the pen-value of a Krak Missile making both a great Anti infantry and Anti-Armor/Monster weapon. While the Terminators couldn't re-roll a Sust. fire die, the Dreadnought could, and both units had Targeters which Chaos Terminators did not. (nor did they have the built in Teleport Homers, either) Imo the loyalist setup is the superior one. It jammed sometimes, sure, but that's why you brought defensive measures like Blind Grenades and built redundancies into your positioning.

(Edit): The Assault Cannon also got +1 to hit at short range, while the Reaper did not.

Martel732 wrote:
Good luck. You'll need it vs non-scrubs.

I'll be fine, But congratulations on hitting Slayer-level posting.