Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

^Yeah, and those armies didn't need full codexes. And guess what? Giving them full codexes means you wind up seeing more of them.

More support for marines means you see more marines. That is the reality of it. More support for Xenos means you see more Xenos players.

I'm going to promote the views of BOTH Martel and Slayer-Fan in this arena. Marines are bloated, and the game would be better off if they were combined into fewer books and the chapter-alternates reined in.

And kill off some of the snowflake chapters to make some room.

Martel732 wrote:
And kill off some of the snowflake chapters to make some room.

You don't have to kill 'em off. Just prune them a bit.

And GW needs to stop the habit of giving marines things that other factions started with.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Yeah, and those armies didn't need full codexes. And guess what? Giving them full codexes means you wind up seeing more of them.

More support for marines means you see more marines. That is the reality of it. More support for Xenos means you see more Xenos players.

I'm going to promote the views of BOTH Martel and Slayer-Fan in this arena. Marines are bloated, and the game would be better off if they were combined into fewer books and the chapter-alternates reined in.

I mean the new supplement system makes it so easy! Theoretical BA and DA supplements wouldn’t need to be that much larger than say the Ultramarine one to cover everything and then when GW add the next latest and greatest primaris unit it’d be automatically included with all the right rules!

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Yeah, and those armies didn't need full codexes. And guess what? Giving them full codexes means you wind up seeing more of them.

More support for marines means you see more marines. That is the reality of it. More support for Xenos means you see more Xenos players.

I'm going to promote the views of BOTH Martel and Slayer-Fan in this arena. Marines are bloated, and the game would be better off if they were combined into fewer books and the chapter-alternates reined in.

I mean the new supplement system makes it so easy! Theoretical BA and DA supplements wouldn’t need to be that much larger than say the Ultramarine one to cover everything and then when GW add the next latest and greatest primaris unit it’d be automatically included with all the right rules!

Hehe, you meant the old supplement system, because that's basically how BA, SW and DA worked in 3rd. Ed. And yeah, it was a good system. I'd go further and recombine the non-BA, SW and DA chapters back into the main Marine book. Cut down all that gak.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Eldar, Orks, Tyranids and Tau all had 4th ed books, only Necrons and Dark Eldar where sitting around untouched for so long out of the Xenos.

Actually orks had a 3rd edition codex and a 5th edition one, never had a 4th edition book. Maybe you're referring to the apocalypse supplement which I don't remember if it was released during 3rd or 4th, but it still used the 3rd edition codex profiles.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
And kill off some of the snowflake chapters to make some room.

You don't have to kill 'em off. Just prune them a bit.

And GW needs to stop the habit of giving marines things that other factions started with.

I really think that some snowflakes need killed off to clear up some bloat. People can play them as other nameless, boring marines, so their models will still be usable. Get rid of three snowflake chapters and bring in three completely new armies.

 Blackie wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Eldar, Orks, Tyranids and Tau all had 4th ed books, only Necrons and Dark Eldar where sitting around untouched for so long out of the Xenos.

Actually orks had a 3rd edition codex and a 5th edition one, never had a 4th edition book. Maybe you're referring to the apocalypse supplement which I don't remember if it was released during 3rd or 4th, but it still used the 3rd edition codex profiles.

For some reason I was remembering their 5th ed codex as a 4th ed one.

And while I agree most of the Marines should be supplements, I don't think it'll reduce their presence in the game.

Insectum7 wrote:Marines are bloated, and the game would be better off if they were combined into fewer books and the chapter-alternates reined in.

Don't get me wrong, I actually *agree* that Marines (except Grey Knights and Deathwatch, who could be rolled into one book alongside Inquisition) should be rolled into one book with supplements for extra flavour, but Martel's rhetoric and "arguments" are woeful.

Marines are bloated and get disproportionate amounts of love from GW, but calling for Marines to be made less "accessible" by wholesale stopping their sales and forcing Marine players to have to play other factions is madness.

Blood Angels not having a codex isn't going to prevent people from painting their marines red. If you want to see less marines, you gotta be the person willing to show up without marines - I have my own grudge against the protagonist faction that goes far beyond just 40k; I do not play loyalist marines, and will never make such a purchase. Chaos and Xenos only are my mandate. If you don't play marines then you'll never participate in a marine mirror ever again.

 Blackie wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Eldar, Orks, Tyranids and Tau all had 4th ed books, only Necrons and Dark Eldar where sitting around untouched for so long out of the Xenos.

Actually orks had a 3rd edition codex and a 5th edition one, never had a 4th edition book. Maybe you're referring to the apocalypse supplement which I don't remember if it was released during 3rd or 4th, but it still used the 3rd edition codex profiles.

Orks had a 3rd, Armaggeddon supplement in 3rd, and a late 4th codex (no 5th codex): https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codices_(List)
Space Marines started off each new codex cycle for 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

Marines are GW flagship WH40K faction.

Expecting them to drop their flagship or people to stop using them is silly. Sounds like a real hard case of FYIGM.

They could, and probably should put the brakes on the Primaris and produce a stack of stuff for the other armies as new releases always get sales but thats like telling Ferrari they should stop making super cars and make more grand-tourers.

Kayback wrote:
Marines are GW flagship WH40K faction.

Expecting them to drop their flagship or people to stop using them is silly. Sounds like a real hard case of FYIGM.

They could, and probably should put the brakes on the Primaris and produce a stack of stuff for the other armies as new releases always get sales but thats like telling Ferrari they should stop making super cars and make more grand-tourers.

Primaris has slowed a bit, but I agree it could slow further still.

I want updated Catachan dang it.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Blood Angels not having a codex isn't going to prevent people from painting their marines red. If you want to see less marines, you gotta be the person willing to show up without marines - I have my own grudge against the protagonist faction that goes far beyond just 40k; I do not play loyalist marines, and will never make such a purchase. Chaos and Xenos only are my mandate. If you don't play marines then you'll never participate in a marine mirror ever again.

I won't sink that kind of money into a GW product, for better or for worse. I guess I'm slowly on the way out no matter what because I won't buy any more primaris.

Releasing some more non-marine stuff would be nice though.

The new box should have been Asuryani vs Necrons.

 harlokin wrote:
Releasing some more non-marine stuff would be nice though.

The new box should have been Asuryani vs Necrons.

Any army but marines vs necrons.

 ClockworkZion wrote:


And while I agree most of the Marines should be supplements, I don't think it'll reduce their presence in the game.

It probably won't, I agree with you. The majority of SM armies around are not SW, BA or DA, AKA the "independent" ones.

 Blackie wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:


And while I agree most of the Marines should be supplements, I don't think it'll reduce their presence in the game.

It probably won't, I agree with you. The majority of SM armies around are not SW, BA or DA, AKA the "independent" ones.

You think that's not in any way tied to their recent support?

Martel732 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Releasing some more non-marine stuff would be nice though.

The new box should have been Asuryani vs Necrons.

Any army but marines vs necrons.

Marines are too large of a target audience to not be in the starter. As much as parts of the communitt will complain, Marines have always made up a majority of 40k sales and players. Not catering to them with the starters just doesn't work from a business sense.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Releasing some more non-marine stuff would be nice though.

The new box should have been Asuryani vs Necrons.

Any army but marines vs necrons.

Marines are too large of a target audience to not be in the starter. As much as parts of the communitt will complain, Marines have always made up a majority of 40k sales and players. Not catering to them with the starters just doesn't work from a business sense.

Disagree. Marines will sell regardless. So why not hook players into other armies with the starter set?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Releasing some more non-marine stuff would be nice though.

The new box should have been Asuryani vs Necrons.

Any army but marines vs necrons.

Marines are too large of a target audience to not be in the starter. As much as parts of the communitt will complain, Marines have always made up a majority of 40k sales and players. Not catering to them with the starters just doesn't work from a business sense.

Disagree. Marines will sell regardless. So why not hook players into other armies with the starter set?

They do that, which is why the other half of the starter is Necrons this time.

Marines will always be half the starter to maximize sales. The other half will appeal to a smaller niche or get Marine players to try the other army and possibly expand out.

The amazing self-fulfilling marine popularity merry-go-round.

 harlokin wrote:
The amazing self-fulfilling marine popularity merry-go-round.

They're designed to be iconic from the ground up and are a large part of what draws people to this game. It's like complaining about Disney using Mickey Mouse in their marketing.

If you don't want to.mirror match with Marines then don't play with Marines. It's that simple and no one will stop you.

This could have been an interesting thread about the new mission design - too bad it was derailed halfway through the first page and has never recovered.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
This could have been an interesting thread about the new mission design - too bad it was derailed halfway through the first page and has never recovered.

Welcome to DakkaDakka where the salt must flow.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
The amazing self-fulfilling marine popularity merry-go-round.

They're designed to be iconic from the ground up and are a large part of what draws people to this game. It's like complaining about Disney using Mickey Mouse in their marketing.

If you don't want to.mirror match with Marines then don't play with Marines. It's that simple and no one will stop you.

It's not marketing at all. It would be as if Disney made Mickey Mouse the star of all of their cartoons...because everyone loves Mickey Mouse, amirite?

I don't care about marine circle jerks, I would just like some more non-marine stuff released without it having to be mirrored by more marines.

 harlokin wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
The amazing self-fulfilling marine popularity merry-go-round.

They're designed to be iconic from the ground up and are a large part of what draws people to this game. It's like complaining about Disney using Mickey Mouse in their marketing.

If you don't want to.mirror match with Marines then don't play with Marines. It's that simple and no one will stop you.

It's not marketing at all. It would be as if Disney made Mickey Mouse the star of all of their cartoons...because everyone loves Mickey Mouse, amirite?

I don't care about marine circle jerks, I would just like some more non-marine stuff released without it having to be mirrored by more marines.

Even when we go long stretches without Marine releases all I hear is that it's never good enough. The moment Marines fet anything again suddenly all that comes out of people's mouth's is how many releases Marines got.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
The amazing self-fulfilling marine popularity merry-go-round.

They're designed to be iconic from the ground up and are a large part of what draws people to this game. It's like complaining about Disney using Mickey Mouse in their marketing.

If you don't want to.mirror match with Marines then don't play with Marines. It's that simple and no one will stop you.

It's not marketing at all. It would be as if Disney made Mickey Mouse the star of all of their cartoons...because everyone loves Mickey Mouse, amirite?

I don't care about marine circle jerks, I would just like some more non-marine stuff released without it having to be mirrored by more marines.

Even when we go long stretches without Marine releases all I hear is that it's never good enough. The moment Marines fet anything again suddenly all that comes out of people's mouth's is how many releases Marines got.

I must have blinked and missed those 'long stretches', so can't comment. How much larger is the marine model range than say, any xenos faction?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Releasing some more non-marine stuff would be nice though.

The new box should have been Asuryani vs Necrons.

Any army but marines vs necrons.

Marines are too large of a target audience to not be in the starter. As much as parts of the communitt will complain, Marines have always made up a majority of 40k sales and players. Not catering to them with the starters just doesn't work from a business sense.

Disagree. Marines will sell regardless. So why not hook players into other armies with the starter set?

They do that, which is why the other half of the starter is Necrons this time.

Marines will always be half the starter to maximize sales. The other half will appeal to a smaller niche or get Marine players to try the other army and possibly expand out.

Just add some new terrain like a new building, or trenches or barriers or something in there along with some cool 40k themed dice and the rulebook. The marine players will buy the set to get that extra stuff and then some of them will also go on to start a collection of at least one of the armies from the box. Boom, you can now sell that marine player xenos models as well.

You say that like there is an incentive to buy a start collecting box for its terrain. There isn't.