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 Type40 wrote:
I am excited for there lore entry in the supplement and excited to see mechanics that are relevant to that fluff on the table ... but I am not going further into my thoughts or ideas on this because i don't want to start an argument

Been a long while since I've seen a thread simply be deleted lol

That's a pretty cool unit. Not as good as my sister of silence at giving the middle finger to psykers, but won't break my detachment bonuses.

Dudeface wrote:

 Type40 wrote:
I am excited for there lore entry in the supplement and excited to see mechanics that are relevant to that fluff on the table ... but I am not going further into my thoughts or ideas on this because i don't want to start an argument

Been a long while since I've seen a thread simply be deleted lol

Well we know the rules now so they could do the same with this one or close it.

Dudeface wrote:

 Type40 wrote:
I am excited for there lore entry in the supplement and excited to see mechanics that are relevant to that fluff on the table ... but I am not going further into my thoughts or ideas on this because i don't want to start an argument

Been a long while since I've seen a thread simply be deleted lol

Right,, lets try to be more civil with each other ,, I honestly don't think anyone enjoyed that XD at least I didn't XD

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Clad in the midnight armour of the Cult of Morkai, the Hounds are relentless hunters of enemy psykers, warded against the wyrd with runic totems. Once they’ve caught the scent of their quarry, the hapless witch is as good as dead.

Cool, so they are, in fact, better at hunting psykers than Sisters of Silence.

Yeah, that tracks for a fluff-compliant space wolf unit

Surprising that once again Marines manage to get another factions entire stick for one of their yet another flavpur of Chadmaris BS but somehow do it better for cheaper because Marines.

So does their Howl aura stack with multiple units? seems to

What do this Reivers have to make them that good vs Psykers? It's... the small trinkets?... with the runes on it?

I can't help but imagine Cawl into his advanced and highly techological lab:

"haha! my new Primaris Reivers are done! I guess I could equip them with those small leather and bone trinkets and send them to Grimnar..."

 Mr Morden wrote:
So does their Howl aura stack with multiple units? seems to

I thought the concept was multiples of the same aura don't stack unless stated to do so, but given it's Marines GW will probably FAQ it to stack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Denegaar wrote:
What do this Reivers have to make them that good vs Psykers? It's... the small trinkets?... with the runes on it?

I can't help but imagine Cawl into his advanced and highly techological lab:

"haha! my new Primaris Reivers are done! I guess I could equip them with those small leather and bone trinkets and send them to Grimnar..."

I suspect Cawls about to be told to go raid Fenrris of every dang runic totem he can find and scatter them into the citrixmaledictum as apparently tese things are potent enough to stop 50% of warp shenanigans. Also when the wolfs find out he's stollen all their shiny trinkets and start howling at the void apparently it'll be soo terrifying that choas will just retreat into the warp, why they didnt just try that against the eye of terror dumb space puppies.

Ice_can wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
So does their Howl aura stack with multiple units? seems to

I thought the concept was multiples of the same aura don't stack unless stated to do so, but given it's Marines GW will probably FAQ it to stack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Denegaar wrote:
What do this Reivers have to make them that good vs Psykers? It's... the small trinkets?... with the runes on it?

I can't help but imagine Cawl into his advanced and highly techological lab:

"haha! my new Primaris Reivers are done! I guess I could equip them with those small leather and bone trinkets and send them to Grimnar..."

I suspect Cawls about to be told to go raid Fenrris of every dang runic totem he can find and scatter them into the citrixmaledictum as apparently tese things are potent enough to stop 50% of warp shenanigans. Also when the wolfs find out he's stollen all their shiny trinkets and start howling at the void apparently it'll be soo terrifying that choas will just retreat into the warp, why they didnt just try that against the eye of terror dumb space puppies.

the trickets likely wouldn't work for non wolves, for the same reason why a Tau screaming "the emperor protects" when confronted with a deamon won't work while a SOB doing so it might.

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
So does their Howl aura stack with multiple units? seems to

I thought the concept was multiples of the same aura don't stack unless stated to do so, but given it's Marines GW will probably FAQ it to stack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Denegaar wrote:
What do this Reivers have to make them that good vs Psykers? It's... the small trinkets?... with the runes on it?

I can't help but imagine Cawl into his advanced and highly techological lab:

"haha! my new Primaris Reivers are done! I guess I could equip them with those small leather and bone trinkets and send them to Grimnar..."

I suspect Cawls about to be told to go raid Fenrris of every dang runic totem he can find and scatter them into the citrixmaledictum as apparently tese things are potent enough to stop 50% of warp shenanigans. Also when the wolfs find out he's stollen all their shiny trinkets and start howling at the void apparently it'll be soo terrifying that choas will just retreat into the warp, why they didnt just try that against the eye of terror dumb space puppies.

the trickets likely wouldn't work for non wolves, for the same reason why a Tau screaming "the emperor protects" when confronted with a deamon won't work while a SOB doing so it might.

Aka GW needed another WGAF reason to pump out more primarcrap so lets take a POS unit that we duck the rules for and make them into some sort of SOS Calexus assasin wombcombo with marine doctorines and chapter tactics and then we'll finally sell those revier kits.

Don't bother that lore wise it makes zero sence and bonus totally destroys what little balance their was between psychic armies and anti psycher units in the game.

As now every dang psycher army is going to be demanding better rules as are going to have to face this BS so those without anti psycher units abilities or strategums will get double screwed, but we should all be happy for more marine BS.

At this point I'm just done waiting and seeing. I've seen enough.

Ice_can wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
So does their Howl aura stack with multiple units? seems to

I thought the concept was multiples of the same aura don't stack unless stated to do so, but given it's Marines GW will probably FAQ it to stack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Denegaar wrote:
What do this Reivers have to make them that good vs Psykers? It's... the small trinkets?... with the runes on it?

I can't help but imagine Cawl into his advanced and highly techological lab:

"haha! my new Primaris Reivers are done! I guess I could equip them with those small leather and bone trinkets and send them to Grimnar..."

I suspect Cawls about to be told to go raid Fenrris of every dang runic totem he can find and scatter them into the citrixmaledictum as apparently tese things are potent enough to stop 50% of warp shenanigans. Also when the wolfs find out he's stollen all their shiny trinkets and start howling at the void apparently it'll be soo terrifying that choas will just retreat into the warp, why they didnt just try that against the eye of terror dumb space puppies.

the trickets likely wouldn't work for non wolves, for the same reason why a Tau screaming "the emperor protects" when confronted with a deamon won't work while a SOB doing so it might.

Aka GW needed another WGAF reason to pump out more primarcrap so lets take a POS unit that we duck the rules for and make them into some sort of SOS Calexus assasin wombcombo with marine doctorines and chapter tactics and then we'll finally sell those revier kits.

Don't bother that lore wise it makes zero sence and bonus totally destroys what little balance their was between psychic armies and anti psycher units in the game.

As now every dang psycher army is going to be demanding better rules as are going to have to face this BS so those without anti psycher units abilities or strategums will get double screwed, but we should all be happy for more marine BS.

ok honest question, do you think this new unit is going to be "on meta"?

I don't even think it is going to be on meta. I'm just past caring.

Am I the only one that's seriously unimpressed with the new unit's rules...? I do appreciate trying to do something different with it than just "here are some Wolf Reivers, they howl extra wolfily" or something. But... their role seems incredibly niche for (what I'm guessing will be) the Elite slot... and they're not even that great at taking out psykers unless that psyker is a small-fry one, and has no support nearby.

The pistol snipe ability seems handy... until you realise it's only 12" range and S4 (the AP isn't too bad, mind). That's decent against your basic Farseer or Weirdboy I suppose, but it's not doing anything against Greater Daemons, Hive Tyrants or Librarian Dreads. That's far too specific a target for a unit that isn't even as good as basic Reivers against any non-psyker target. If your army is having that much trouble with one non-monstrous psyker, you've got bigger problems... and if that psyker is really important to the opponent, they're not going to be on their own, so getting within that 12" could be a tricky prospect.

I could see them being fantastic against Grey Knights, Thousand Sons and Daemons armies, to fight alongside the rest of the army rather than hunting anything specific. But if you've taken them because you know you'll be playing one of those armies... I dunno, seems a bit "that guy" to me. Doubly so if you take more than one unit of them.

Clearly the threat is so real post Psychic Awakening with all the new psyker units and rules, this unit was sorely needed for grey wolfy marines..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Super Ready wrote:
Am I the only one that's seriously unimpressed with the new unit's rules...? I do appreciate trying to do something different with it than just "here are some Wolf Reivers, they howl extra wolfily" or something. But... their role seems incredibly niche for (what I'm guessing will be) the Elite slot... and they're not even that great at taking out psykers unless that psyker is a small-fry one, and has no support nearby.

The pistol snipe ability seems handy... until you realise it's only 12" range and S4 (the AP isn't too bad, mind). That's decent against your basic Farseer or Weirdboy I suppose, but it's not doing anything against Greater Daemons, Hive Tyrants or Librarian Dreads. That's far too specific a target for a unit that isn't even as good as basic Reivers against any non-psyker target. If your army is having that much trouble with one non-monstrous psyker, you've got bigger problems... and if that psyker is really important to the opponent, they're not going to be on their own, so getting within that 12" could be a tricky prospect.

I could see them being fantastic against Grey Knights, Thousand Sons and Daemons armies, to fight alongside the rest of the army rather than hunting anything specific. But if you've taken them because you know you'll be playing one of those armies... I dunno, seems a bit "that guy" to me. Doubly so if you take more than one unit of them.

They seem really good for screening out smite.

As well as taking out things like IG priamaris psykers, or CWE Warlocks (which are 2W T3)

So against amries like CWE, Tsons, Tyranids, GK or any other army that includes psyker elements as key strategies (da jump for example?) they could be great.
Especially if you can boom them forward in a impulsor and just have them run out + shoot & eat all the smite and nerf psychic.

 Argive wrote:
They are excellent for screening out smite.

Only once they're actually close enough, so same problem as with the pistol snipe really. Arguably decent against smite spam, but the armies that can achieve that can spread their units out far enough that it won't matter.

As well as takign out things like IG priamaris psykers, or CWE Warlocks (which are 2W T3)

Again, you really don't need a specialised unit to take care of those. It's still too niche for me to consider spending an already hotly-contested Elite slot for the sake of taking out one piddly psyker.

 CEO Kasen wrote:
I don't even think it is going to be on meta. I'm just past caring.

So, it's a medicore unit that fills a specialist function that's mostly narrative.... so whats the problem?

Because it just doesn't end. I no longer hold out hope it ever will.

BrianDavion wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
I don't even think it is going to be on meta. I'm just past caring.

So, it's a medicore unit that fills a specialist function that's mostly narrative.... so whats the problem?

So why then do we needed this unit to be yet another flavour of SM?

BrianDavion wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
I don't even think it is going to be on meta. I'm just past caring.

So, it's a medicore unit that fills a specialist function that's mostly narrative.... so whats the problem?

Yeah whats the problem with marines getting yet another pointless mediocare unit using a bit more of the design space+ resource while everyone else lingers about with nothing? Whats the problem with that CEO Kasen? Don't you play grey wolfy marines? Maybe you should..

Seriously though this is minimal effort/investment type thing with a unit of rievers (that amriens decry as gutetr trash since inception..)and an upgrade sprue in a new box so its very meh *shrugs*.
Id rather they do this than put time into even more new sculpts for a mediocare pointles sunit for an over-bloated faction so yay? I guess?

It seems they feel they need to have "something NEW!!!" to go with each new codex/supplement. So we are likely to end up with more hare brained pointless bloaty data sheets coz GW be GW..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Super Ready wrote:

 Argive wrote:
They are excellent for screening out smite.

Only once they're actually close enough, so same problem as with the pistol snipe really. Arguably decent against smite spam, but the armies that can achieve that can spread their units out far enough that it won't matter.

As well as takign out things like IG priamaris psykers, or CWE Warlocks (which are 2W T3)

Again, you really don't need a specialised unit to take care of those. It's still too niche for me to consider spending an already hotly-contested Elite slot for the sake of taking out one piddly psyker.

I assume they can grav shoute in or DS? So you could drop them in some cover/crater and be a real pain int he ass...

The impulsor stil has the asult ramp rule doesnt it?

It could be a speedbump unit against some factions that will funnel them and restrict their movement. If I have to shoot some pesky rievers in order to enable my psykers to do their key roles, im not shooting at things I actually want to shoot at ?

I don't think they are meta shattering or anything. But certainly against some armies they could eeek out a win.
Anything that dictates deployment and movement for you opponents and make them think twice about positioning psyker characters is more powerful than simply dice output IMO

 Argive wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
I don't even think it is going to be on meta. I'm just past caring.

So, it's a medicore unit that fills a specialist function that's mostly narrative.... so whats the problem?

Yeah whats the problem with marines getting yet another pointless mediocare unit using a bit more of the design space+ resource while everyone else lingers about with nothing? Whats the problem with that CEO Kasen? Don't you play grey wolfy marines? Maybe you should..

Seriously though this is minimal effort/investment type thing with a unit of rievers (that amriens decry as gutetr trash since inception..)and an upgrade sprue in a new box so its very meh *shrugs*.
Id rather they do this than put time into even more new sculpts for a mediocare pointles sunit for an over-bloated faction so yay? I guess?

It seems they feel they need to have "something NEW!!!" to go with each new codex/supplement. So we are likely to end up with more hare brained pointless bloaty data sheets coz GW be GW..

.. you realize the rules team and the mini design team are entirely two differant groups of people right?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Argive wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
I don't even think it is going to be on meta. I'm just past caring.

So, it's a medicore unit that fills a specialist function that's mostly narrative.... so whats the problem?

Yeah whats the problem with marines getting yet another pointless mediocare unit using a bit more of the design space+ resource while everyone else lingers about with nothing? Whats the problem with that CEO Kasen? Don't you play grey wolfy marines? Maybe you should..

Seriously though this is minimal effort/investment type thing with a unit of rievers (that amriens decry as gutetr trash since inception..)and an upgrade sprue in a new box so its very meh *shrugs*.
Id rather they do this than put time into even more new sculpts for a mediocare pointles sunit for an over-bloated faction so yay? I guess?

It seems they feel they need to have "something NEW!!!" to go with each new codex/supplement. So we are likely to end up with more hare brained pointless bloaty data sheets coz GW be GW..

.. you realize the rules team and the mini design team are entirely two differant groups of people right?

I fail to see how that's relevant at all to what I said. Other then being needlessly condescending and doing yourself no favours....

 Argive wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Argive wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
I don't even think it is going to be on meta. I'm just past caring.

So, it's a medicore unit that fills a specialist function that's mostly narrative.... so whats the problem?

Yeah whats the problem with marines getting yet another pointless mediocare unit using a bit more of the design space+ resource while everyone else lingers about with nothing? Whats the problem with that CEO Kasen? Don't you play grey wolfy marines? Maybe you should..

Seriously though this is minimal effort/investment type thing with a unit of rievers (that amriens decry as gutetr trash since inception..)and an upgrade sprue in a new box so its very meh *shrugs*.
Id rather they do this than put time into even more new sculpts for a mediocare pointles sunit for an over-bloated faction so yay? I guess?

It seems they feel they need to have "something NEW!!!" to go with each new codex/supplement. So we are likely to end up with more hare brained pointless bloaty data sheets coz GW be GW..

.. you realize the rules team and the mini design team are entirely two differant groups of people right?

I fail to see how that's relevant at all to what I said. Other then being needlessly condescending and doing yourself no favours....

I actually misread you, and thought you where saying they should put more time into new sculpts

BrianDavion wrote:

 Argive wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Argive wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
I don't even think it is going to be on meta. I'm just past caring.

So, it's a medicore unit that fills a specialist function that's mostly narrative.... so whats the problem?

Yeah whats the problem with marines getting yet another pointless mediocare unit using a bit more of the design space+ resource while everyone else lingers about with nothing? Whats the problem with that CEO Kasen? Don't you play grey wolfy marines? Maybe you should..

Seriously though this is minimal effort/investment type thing with a unit of rievers (that amriens decry as gutetr trash since inception..)and an upgrade sprue in a new box so its very meh *shrugs*.
Id rather they do this than put time into even more new sculpts for a mediocare pointles sunit for an over-bloated faction so yay? I guess?

It seems they feel they need to have "something NEW!!!" to go with each new codex/supplement. So we are likely to end up with more hare brained pointless bloaty data sheets coz GW be GW..

.. you realize the rules team and the mini design team are entirely two differant groups of people right?

I fail to see how that's relevant at all to what I said. Other then being needlessly condescending and doing yourself no favours....

I actually misread you, and thought you where saying they should put more time into new sculpts

Ah fair enough.. I retract my earlier assessment. And int he words of some random gospel music I heard on youtube:
"Helll no!!! To the no to the no no noooooo Hell to the no!"

Its essentially repackaging reivers with additional sprue. Its very minimal effort/investment so its better than the alternative totally new priamris kit.. But its still effort and investment so wotcha gunna do.

Is it me or do they now feel beholden to the idea that for every book they need to have a "NEW RELASE NEW * MODELS** NEW NEW**!!" ??
Cos that does not bode well if we get more hack jobs like this for everyone rather than meaningful units for those taht need them.

 Argive wrote:
I assume they can grav shoute in or DS? So you could drop them in some cover/crater and be a real pain int he ass...

Nope. They can only outflank, hence my previous comment about them not even being as good as Reivers outside of hunting psykers.

The impulsor stil has the asult ramp rule doesnt it?

Yes, it does indeed... but I feel like that's throwing more points after bad. That Impulsor could be used elsewhere.

It could be a speedbump unit against some factions that will funnel them and restrict their movement. If I have to shoot some pesky rievers in order to enable my psykers to do their key roles, im not shooting at things I actually want to shoot at ?

That's true. I suppose they could well serve as a decent distraction if you run them cheap and are otherwise focusing hard on your objectives.

I don't think they are meta shattering or anything. But certainly against some armies they could eeek out a win.
Anything that dictates deployment and movement for you opponents and make them think twice about positioning psyker characters is more powerful than simply dice output IMO

Not a bad analysis. Perhaps I've been overly harsh on them, and I'm sure some players will find a use for them. I just can't see many lists actually wanting to take them over, say, Aggressors or Bladeguard. Meanwhile if you really need units to dictate deployment and movement, you've got much better options in the Fast Attack slot that can continue doing so all game long.

this is honestly part of the problem with elites, it includes both hyper specialist and hyper killy. if 10th edition divided elites into "elites" and "specialists" then people might be more incliend to take some of these style of units but as it is, "I could take these....... or I could take blade guard" isn't a hard choice

So custodes can ignore wounds in the psychic phase on six but these schmucks do it on a 4+ because lord help us if space marines don’t do something better. This is just laughable at this point. How on earth do you justify that choice? Thank god the Space Wolves’ rivals aren’t a psychic based legion. Seriously good luck to any 1000 Sons player. Enjoy the one or two powers you can cast.

There was zero need for this unit. It’s just one more case of marine BS. Plus to add insult to injury it’s another unit that marine players will label as mediocre because they’re spoiled for options.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
So custodes can ignore wounds in the psychic phase on six but these schmucks do it on a 4+ because lord help us if space marines don’t do something better. This is just laughable at this point. How on earth do you justify that choice? Thank god the Space Wolves’ rivals aren’t a psychic based legion. Seriously good luck to any 1000 Sons player. Enjoy the one or two powers you can cast.

There was zero need for this unit. It’s just one more case of marine BS. Plus to add insult to injury it’s another unit that marine players will label as mediocre because they’re spoiled for options.

........ are you really objecting to the fact that a specialist anti-psyker reiver varient gets it, but an ENTIRE ARMY of 2+/4++ guys with a higher toughness also don't have a 4+ save vs wounds?!

BrianDavion wrote:

ok honest question, do you think this new unit is going to be "on meta"?

At this point your going into the old circular argument marine players always make X isnt as Broken as Y so why should I ever take it.

While missing the wider issue these dang things even exsisting within a marine codex causes a host of issues.
They are shoot psychers on 2+, with Ap-2/3 D2 weapons.
The hit them on 1+ in CC FFS. These smucks hit a demon primarch on a 1+ in CC

This now means that inevitably more -1 to be hits will be spread around screwing over everyone else who doesn't get the new buffed up psychers or anti psycher unit.

Ice_can wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

ok honest question, do you think this new unit is going to be "on meta"?

At this point your going into the old circular argument marine players always make X isnt as Broken as Y so why should I ever take it.

While missing the wider issue these dang things even exsisting within a marine codex causes a host of issues.
They are shoot psychers on 2+, with Ap-2/3 D2 weapons.
The hit them on 1+ in CC FFS. These smucks hit a demon primarch on a 1+ in CC

This now means that inevitably more -1 to be hits will be spread around screwing over everyone else who doesn't get the new buffed up psychers or anti psycher unit.

... no they don't. their pistols are 1 DMG.

and their knives are AP - 4 dmg 1.

How is that a threat to a deamon Primarch?

hell, how are these fethers reaching close combat with a deamon primarch?!