Now that almost a dozen units are legends for 40k, will those models be accepted in 30k circles?

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**TangoTwoBravo**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
My town has a large 40K community (we get 40+ players at our tourneys) and a small but active Horus Heresy community (we get 12 to 16 players at an event; we've had active leagues and you can get a game if you want). If there was an 30K scene before HH V2 then it was underground and not at the FLGS. Of the current HH players that I play with, at least half are also 40K players. At our events I have seen a few "pure" HH armies, but I have also seen a few armies where it is all 40K models. Several of the armies have a mixture. I have not seen any angst or drama about having 40K models on the board. 40K Landspeeders are quite common to see zipping around. While some prefer to use the HH versions, nobody is checking the pattern on Rhinos, Vindicators and Predators.

I play Ravenwing Black Knights from my 40K army as Outriders in my HH Dark Angels army without any conversions or changes to the paint. Yesterday I tried out Hellblasters as Interemptors (oh the heresy - Primaris! What if children were watching!), although I did paint those ones black and tried to Heresy them up a little with decals. One of our most dedicated HH players has a beautiful Imperial Fists army that does use models from 40K 3rd to 5th Ed in some squads along with the FW models for the specialist squads. I find as long as squads look homogenous it all works out aesthetically to have a mixed army.

I think if we banned 40K models we wouldn't have much a local Horus Heresy community. I have absolutely no issue with someone using their old Tactical Marines as Horus Heresy Tactical Marines. Nor 40K Devastator Marines as Horus Heresy Heavy Support Squads. Having said that, the Heavy Support squads should all be equipped with the same weapon. If someone had an issue with my ersatz Outriders and Interemptors I guess we wouldn't have a game?

I'd absolutely play with you. Let's have fun. As to the opinions of others? Who cares. May they burn.

Cool! I haven't faced Night Lords - would be very thematic!

I am grateful that I have found that your can-do attitude has been the prevailing one in my gaming circles.

**ThePaintingOwl**

chaos0xomega wrote:
I categorize you in the same gorup that I did the guys who used to use shoeboxes as stand ins for stormravens and red solo cups for drop pods. I refused to play them then, I refuse to play you now.

Do you really not think it's a bit hyperbolic to treat a model with some minor differences that aren't visible at tabletop distances as equivalent to shoeboxes and plastic cups?

You of course have the right to refuse to play with anyone who doesn't meet your demanding standards, but most people are going to think you're being ridiculous. And if you cross into telling people that your standards are expected for anything outside of games with you then you're crossing the line into gatekeeping and that isn't ok.

**chaos0xomega**

BrianDavion wrote:

also you have to be a little careful as sometimes a 40k model over a HH model may be an aestetic choice, like using mars pattern land raiders, rhinos and predators may be a specific choice for aestetics rather then "just reusing my 40k stuff"

My army is late heresy Imperial fists and I've been considering what pattern of rhinos I want to use from an aestetics POV

Sure, if its done purposefully and intentionally with underlying fluff to justify it, I'll buy that concept, but you can usually tell when someone is doing that for justifiable reasons, vs showing up with their customer 40k chapter and trying to pretend that they are an army from one of the lost legions.

**From_Kiavahr_With_Love**

chaos0xomega wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

also you have to be a little careful as sometimes a 40k model over a HH model may be an aestetic choice, like using mars pattern land raiders, rhinos and predators may be a specific choice for aestetics rather then "just reusing my 40k stuff"

My army is late heresy Imperial fists and I've been considering what pattern of rhinos I want to use from an aestetics POV

Sure, if its done purposefully and intentionally with underlying fluff to justify it, I'll buy that concept, but you can usually tell when someone is doing that for justifiable reasons, vs showing up with their customer 40k chapter and trying to pretend that they are an army from one of the lost legions.

Yeah totally, I don't think anyone wants to reward complete laziness and lack of interest in the fluff, which is what you're talking about I think. People who enjoy the game rules but don't care about the setting at all. That being said effort/aesthetics makes a difference, if someone showed up with a beautifully painted oldhammer chaos marine army and said it was late Heresy I would just be happy to see it honestly.

There's another issue we're not discussing which is access to the background material. You might be a seasoned veteran wargamer who has all the skills and the desire to create an amazing force who is new to Heresy, but the Black Books are difficult to get hold of now, and the new Heresy books are quite light on detail and sketches/model photos, they don't offer much advice or inspiration. There's an absolute tonne of novels we don't all have time to read. Personally I would like to see some in depth guides like they used to do back in earlier editions of 40k, with army showcases, modelling and painting advice, heraldry, legion organisation charts, that sort of deep dive nerd stuff. I would jump on a book like that for my legion

**ThePaintingOwl**

From_Kiavahr_With_Love wrote:
People who enjoy the game rules but don't care about the setting at all.

Why is enjoying the rules but not the setting laziness?

**From_Kiavahr_With_Love**

ThePaintingOwl wrote:
From_Kiavahr_With_Love wrote:
People who enjoy the game rules but don't care about the setting at all.

Why is enjoying the rules but not the setting laziness?

I acknowledge that is a completely subjective statement. And there's nothing wrong with enjoying the rules but not the setting, however there's going to be a lot of Heresy gamers who are deeply attached to the system and the setting who aren't going to like that approach or want to play against people with that approach and would see it as lazy. I see it as a bit like WAAC vs narrative in 40k, I got bored of 40k and stopped playing years back because no one in my gaming group was interested in doing anything creative with the game and just wanted to spam all the best units and smash their opponents.

Each to their own though. We all want different things from the game, and like you I don't have an issue with playing against people with proxy/40k armies and I don't want to be told how to model mine either. I do think that Heresy has traditionally been a place where more narrative approach has been encouraged though and I get why people would want to 'gatekeep' that, because (IMO) it's just so much better. You're not going to win people to that perspective by being elitist though, that's just a fact.

**ThePaintingOwl**

From_Kiavahr_With_Love wrote:
I see it as a bit like WAAC vs narrative in 40k, I got bored of 40k and stopped playing years back because no one in my gaming group was interested in doing anything creative with the game and just wanted to spam all the best units and smash their opponents.

FYI that's not what WAAC means. WAAC means Win At ALL Costs, including cheating and seal clubbing and similar unethical behavior. Playing the best units and prioritizing good strategy over "creativity" is just normal competitive play.

**From_Kiavahr_With_Love**

ThePaintingOwl wrote:
From_Kiavahr_With_Love wrote:
I see it as a bit like WAAC vs narrative in 40k, I got bored of 40k and stopped playing years back because no one in my gaming group was interested in doing anything creative with the game and just wanted to spam all the best units and smash their opponents.

FYI that's not what WAAC means. WAAC means Win At ALL Costs, including cheating and seal clubbing and similar unethical behavior. Playing the best units and prioritizing good strategy over "creativity" is just normal competitive play.

OK well, there was a 50/50 mix of WAAC and normal competitive play then. I'm just saying that it didn't float my boat. I'd rather just read the books than play those games every weekend. Which is why I like Heresy, because there's more of a balance between the hobby side and the gameplay side.