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Assuming you wanted to make an army that had 9 warwalkers, thoughts on the following (points may be slightly off, as I don't have the book handy)

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8 scorpions

3X10 guardians with bright lances

2X10 guardians with starcannons

2X4 shining spears

3X3 warwalkers with missile launchers and spirit stones

I was thinking that 9 Warwalkers with Star cannons might be a neat way to go. It would be one hell of a opening volley, espcially if mixed with guide/doom.

Are you including guardians because you have a bunch of models?

I do happen to have all the guardians.

I'm thinking that if I can keep the warwalkers alive, this is a decent shooty army with the guardians. It's got the proper countercharge to deal with most things that would want to get into assault with it, and should be able to at least hold it's own in any shooting match.

Why Scorpions as opposed to Banshees or Harlies though?

It will? how?

A guided falcon will destroy about 1.5+ walkers and stun 2 more by itself and is cheaper than this squad.

Similarly a pair of Landspeeder Tornados will destroy about 1.5 walkers and stun 2, again for much less than the cost of the squad. Even 3 Tornados cost less than this squad and they would pretty much destroy the entire squad in one turn.

The walkers are too expensive for filling anything but a harassment roll. If you keep the walkers hidden waiting for the speeders/falcons to make the first move, your army has negligible shooting capabilities. Plus the faster Falcons and Speeders will eventually maneuver around terrain to get the first shot on the walkers anyways.

Even 8 Devastators with 4 ML are better value and can out shoot this squad.

Building an army around war walkers is about as effective as building an army around grots.  Actually I think the grots might actually both out shoot and out last the war walkers also.... 

Wouldn't 3 Wraithlords with EML and BL be almost the same number of points? You lose a few shots, but gain a little bit more durability?

Actually, you'd lose alot of shots I guess...

Who knows.

Again, assuming you have to use 9 warwalkers.....

Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to use 9 warwalkers?

Someone is giving me the 9 warwalkers, so I'd at least like to occasionally do him the honor of letting them hit the table.

Curious - how many points would you save per squad by swapping out scatter lasers over the EML's?

Hopefully they are new war walkers

And the advantage of the missile launcher over the scatter laser is the 48" range. And if worst comes to worst, the template is at least AP4.

If the war walkers are able to scout to a good position in the first turn, they can stay at standoff ranges for most of the game. They could also stake out opposite corners of the deployment zone and criss cross fire lanes.

Posted By mauleed on 11/24/2006 10:47 AM
Someone is giving me the 9 warwalkers, so I'd at least like to occasionally do him the honor of letting them hit the table.

Perhaps this situation requires out of the box thinking?

 

Sell the war walkers on e-bay and buy a Falcon.  Honor him by naming the Falcon after him.

 

cookie cutter + Eldar = bad

They aren't marines; they need to be able to do different things.

You want 1 unit of 3 warwalkers with EML, one unit with scatterlasers, and one unit with something else that is not brightlances (too expensive) or shuriken cannons (too short ranged). That way the EML guys can stand off at long range, the scatterlaser guys can play light-armor point defense and horde hunting, and the other unit can do something else.

With warwalkers you can even increase the value and flexibility by mixing 2 different complementary weapons on each walker.

How about this.

Eldrad (3 psychic powers a turn, plus redeploy d3+1 units)

2 jetbike units with warlocks (both warlocks with spears)

3x3 warwalkers all with starcannons

2x3 vypers all with starcannons & shurikken cannons
1x3 vypers all with scatter lasers &  shurriken cannons

between the redeploy -anywhere in the deployment zone, and the scout move of the warwalkers that should mitigate their relativly poor armor. All those starcannons makes up for the fact that they have been nerfed and that there is no big can opening brightlances. I think its a gimmick list because if you have a bad first turn (i.e. going 2nd to a shooty list) or poor reserve rolls then the gig is up. However with doomx2 and guide... I think that going first will be hella nasty

Whats your thoughts? (btw the above list is 1848pts)

Sazzlefrats is on to something - although gimmicky, it might be a way to utilize the warwalkers while covering up their weak ARM.

I like the Eldrad redeployment combined with a scout move. At the least, the warwalkers can "tighten-up behind cover" or a minimum of 2 units could be totally redeployed.

I'd shave points by dropping the shurikencannons and adding another Farseer with toys.

my 2 cents.

Then again - droppod marines will love this build....

I'd use 9 with 2 scatterlasers each and then put everything else in the army into anti-tank guns. Possibly a horde of fire dragons in waveserpents.

Everyone thinks warwalkers suck, and I am here to disagree.

I love them, and I am going to use them. The Eldar army I am building right now is an Eldar MLV (Multiple Light Vehicles) army.

It will have 9 War Walker, and between 6-9 Vypers.

How am I going to arm my War Walkers squads?

Three squads of:
1 WW w/2 Scatter Lasers
1 WW w/2 Scatter Lasers
1 WW w/2 Star Cannons

That equals 200 points per squad.

So you are shooting 20, strength 6 shots a turn. They will kill just about anything. Not only that, but you have a 36" range to sit back and shoot.

And War Walkers are a lot more durable that everyone thinks. Read the rules on targeting vehicle squads and what you get is that if you are shooting single shots (and that is what you are going to get at 36" , they have to kill the first one before moving on to the next WW. So keep the closest in cover to help it survive, and keep the starcannon one a little farther back.

But everyone will do what they want to do, and I will win a lot of games with my army.

And by the way, the multiple strength 6 armys work. Look at Mech Guard, and Godzilla Tyranids if you think they don't.

Posted By Tau-Cent on 11/24/2006 9:24 AM
It will? how?

A guided falcon will destroy about 1.5+ walkers and stun 2 more by itself and is cheaper than this squad.

Similarly a pair of Landspeeder Tornados will destroy about 1.5 walkers and stun 2, again for much less than the cost of the squad. Even 3 Tornados cost less than this squad and they would pretty much destroy the entire squad in one turn.

The walkers are too expensive for filling anything but a harassment roll. If you keep the walkers hidden waiting for the speeders/falcons to make the first move, your army has negligible shooting capabilities. Plus the faster Falcons and Speeders will eventually maneuver around terrain to get the first shot on the walkers anyways.

Even 8 Devastators with 4 ML are better value and can out shoot this squad.

Building an army around war walkers is about as effective as building an army around grots.  Actually I think the grots might actually both out shoot and out last the war walkers also.... 

A guided falcon is much cheaper? Pass around the pipe you are smoking.

Falcon
Starcannon
Holofield
Spirit Stones
Vectored Engines
205 points

3 Tornados=240 points

War walkers=200 points

Do you want me to throw in the points for the Farseer w/guide?

Falcon at 24"-36"= 1.6 dead MEQs a turn
War Walkers with the above configuration=3.8 Dead MEQ a turn.

And that is for MEQs. Do you want to know how many they would kill if you are fighting something not in powered armor? And if you want to talk about guide, the war walkers fair much, much better. The falcons are more durable than the War Walkers, but one glance and the falcons are not shooting for a turn.

As far as the Land Speeders go, the War Walkers can wipe them out as easily as they can kill the War Walker. Since the eldar can't take Land Speeders, it is pointless to compare them. If you keep the WWs out of 36" range so the Speeders can't use their Assault Cannons when they move up, they will be just fine.  Not only that, but you have Vypers to take care of them.

The Devastators pose more of a threat, but they are a static shooting unit. Use your scout move to put some cover between them and the Walkers, and they will be fine.

Posted By Longshot on 11/24/2006 5:12 PM
I'd use 9 with 2 scatterlasers each and then put everything else in the army into anti-tank guns. Possibly a horde of fire dragons in waveserpents.

Good idea.......8 shots a piece for 72 shots total............plus if you took Eldrad to compliment your scout special rule.....they should be able to stay alive first turn and then unleash.........that is a lot of St 6 dakka........i think I might try this.

Well, for a squad of 3 war walkers it works out to:

3 War Walkers w/6 Scatter Lasers=3.33 dead MEQs
180 Points

3 War Walkers w/4 Scatter Lasers+ 2 Star Cannons=3.8
200 Points

You end up paying more for the Walker with the starcannon, but it kills MEQs and terminators, and other things with a high armor save like TMC, Greater Demons, etc.

Sazzlefrats and Blackmoor have some good thoughts. I like Sazzlefrat's build with Eldrad (that d3+1 movement is pimp) but I like Blackmoor's thoughts on death at 36 inches (scatterlasers+starcannons).

It appears that vypers and warwalkers can pump out more than enough fire (i.e., dakkafexs and mech ig) and Eldrad's movmement can be the turning point to set up those favorable shots.

While mulitple AR10 units seem weak, the squadron rules can benefit them. Moreover, a few lousy escalation rules (autarch anyone?) could result in good-game. How do you two propose to deal with droppod marines and godzilla nids played by individuals with ed's and your skills? It seems possible, but a challenge nevertheless.

Well, as far as escalation goes, remember that War Walkers have the scout special rule, so they always start on the table.


I think that they will do well against Godzilla nids. With the star cannon set up, it will put 2.3s wounds on a carnifex a turn, and the all scatter lasers will do 2. But range is your friend. Godzilla nid's kill zone is 24" (18" for the devoreror + 6"move) so try to stay back as much as possible. Godzilla nids have a nice synergy with genestealers and the TMCs because it is hard to kill both. But the War Walkers can do a nice job of killling both.

Drop pods are another matter. With Ed's build I would just turtle up in a corner, and spread out my fearless guardians as a buffer so they can't get any shoot at anything I want to keep alive. Turn 3 might be more of a problem because then your guardian shiels has been stripped away.

But like every army in 40k, you will have your bad match ups.

And AV10 is weak, when you take enough of them, hen they become a problem.

I hadn't realized that you could get 3 war walkers with 2 ML each and spirt stones for 200 pts. ( as per the orginal post) I must have a misprint in my codex.

I also didn't realize that I had suggested the Falcon have a Starcannon instead of a Scatter laser. (wait I didn't!) I pretty sure this Falcon would be cheaper than your reconfigured walkers.

Forget about Guide, the Falcon will still beat 3 walkers. Even without guide 1+ dead walkers, 1.5+ stunned and some weapon destroyed and immobilized results on top of that. The walkers are all but mush after one round of shooting.

If one plays it right they can even use the remains of 1 squad of walkers to block the LOS of the other squads.

Another set up that you might want to think about is equiping all of them all with Shuriken Cannons.

It makes the unit dirt cheap (120 points for 3), so it lets you endulge your self with the other eldar goodies.

But everyone is complaining that bolters will kill you, and I disagree. Since bolters can't move and fire, the War Walkers are the ones that are going to advance into the 24" range and get first shot. Also bolters only get a single shot, and they need a 6 to glance, so it is possible to be hurt by them, but it is only a minor concern.

Falcon w/Starcannon= 1.6 dead MEQs a turn
Falcon w/Scatter Laser= 1.28 dead MEQs a turn.
3 War Walkers with 2 Scatter Lasers and 2 Starcannons=3.8 Dead MEQ a turn.
3 War Walkers with 6 Shuriken Cannons=2.5 dead MEQs a turn

 

 

 

Comparing point efficiency of the two types of WW units based on Blackmoor's numbers (assuming they've all got 36" range? I don't have the new codex yet).

3.8 dead meqs / 2.5 dead meqs = 1.52
200 pts/120 pts = 1.67

1.67/1.52 = 1.1

So the ShuriCannon WWs are 1.1 x more point efficient against Meqs that are not in cover.

Against anything with worse armour, or even against Meqs in cover, the ShuriCannons get even more point-efficient.

Plus it hurts a lot less to have a 40 point ShuriCannon WW downed by bolter or assault cannon fire.

Just use the 9 ShurCannon WWs against any infantry except Terminators and Meqs in the open, and use the other 1490 points of your army against those two types of target and heavy vehicles

shuricannon = 24"
scatterlaser = 36" + 1 more shot with reduced AP

HUGE difference there.

Posted By Hellfury on 11/25/2006 1:35 PM
shuricannon = 24"
scatterlaser = 36" + 1 more shot with reduced AP

HUGE difference there.

You can make the argument either way.

With the Scatter Lasers the range is nice. You can stay out of assault cannon and devouror range.

The Shuriken Cannons are so cheap, that you don't mind losing some. Also, as I said, bolters can only glance, and they are not that great of a threat. Although plasma guns become more of a problem.

Remember the torent of fire rule to try to pick off the heavy weapons, and I think either configuration will be a good choice.

No, Hellfury is right. 24" is the magic range for plasma, bolters, fleeting beast assaults... A 36" weapon is qualitatively different from a 24" range weapon. On a light platform like a vyper or warwalker, packing a shuriken cannon instead of a 36+ range weapon makes it a suicide unit.

I would like to inform you that the weapon differences are actually pretty huge. 

Star-Cannon: 36 range, 2 shots, strength 6, AP 2 (25 points)
Shuriken Cannon: 24 range? (Don't remember), Strength 6, AP 5 (15 points each)
Scatter Laser: 36 range, 4 Shots, Strength 6, AP - (20 points)
Bright Lance: 48 range, 1 shot, strenght 8, ap 2, lance, (30 points)

I am currently using
Eldrad

2 squads of 5 Wraith Guards with a warlock with conceal
2 Wave Serpents, with vectored engines, star engines, and the shuriken cannon upgrade

1 squad of 8 rangers with pathfinders
2 squad of 6 rangers with pathfinders
10 Dire Avengers, with exarch, two Avenger shuriken catapults and blade storm

2 ww's with 2 bright lances
2 ww's with 2 star cannons
2 ww's with 2 scatter lasers