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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Bournemouth, UK

Tom Kirby, Director of Games Workshop Group, was reported Thursday to have purchased 142,000 shares at £350.00 GBP each, for a total value of £497,000.00 

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Dakka Veteran





Sri Lanka

That would actually be £49,700,000.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Bournemouth, UK

Sorry, just simply cut & paste off the TMP website

Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.

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Made in gb
Stitch Counter






Rowlands Gill

It implies that he wants even greater control of the company. Prior to that he owned over 6% of the company shares. Now that's just got higher. Everytime he does this it makes it that bit harder for the board to get rid of him.

On the positive side of things at least it means he is putting his money where his mouth is! At least he has confidence in the future of the company if no-one else does!

Cheers
Paul 
   
Made in gb
Stitch Counter






Rowlands Gill

The error was with TMP. shares wre actually worth £3.50 on Thursday. Today they are worth £3.60. Which means Kirby is now £50k richer than he was yesterday. Dagnabbit!

Cheers
Paul 
   
Made in ca
Drew_Riggio




Vancouver, British Columbia.

He's probably doing this for a couple of reasons:

1) By purchasing shares he creates a demand for them, which increases their price. An increased stock price makes his performance appear better, although its effect will be temporary. Regardless of the short term effect, he is banking on the idea that GW's deflating stock value is a temporary problem that will soon rectify itself. And given his influence within the corporation, he's in the position to assist in its recovery. I'm betting that he thinks that the future of GW is in video games and other licensed properties.
Note that I'm not suggesting that Kirby has been deliberatly driving GW stock down so that he can purchase it at an undervalued before major policy changes cause it to bounce back; while I don't hold much faith in the man's abilities, I'm not going so far as to call him a crook.

2) Kirby is further speculating that if he has gambled wrong and GW stock continues to drop, they will get bought out relatively quickly and for a good price. He has faith that a number of potential buyers will compete over GW on the basis of it's intellectual property, regardless of the state of its retail operations.

So, by purchasing stock, Tom is showing faith in the company he runs and is imagining he is making a fairly safe investment. If he is right, he could double his investment or more. If he is wrong, he thinks he'll probably recover most of his investment anyway. And he's probably correct on the latter point.
   
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Plastictrees



Amongst the Stars, In the Night

I think Trigger is on the right path with this, but I have a much, much more cynical take on it (go figure).

Firstmost, regarding the timing, CEOs and other corporate executive directors, all have extremely limited windows of opportunity where they are able to buy/sell stock options of their company at their own discretion (and not part of some third hand automated buy/sell system which they have no control over). At least, in the US they do (and I imagine it's the same in the UK). This is due to insider trading laws that make it illegal for those who have material non-public information from benefiting from it. The times of year where that occurs are very, very few indeed and as such means such execs only get to actively trade securities (or set up automated securities trades) less than a week or two out of the entire year combined, all to prevent insider trading.

The point of all this is I don't think Kirby is engaging in any insider trading. However, I *do* believe that he has driven the company into the ground, intentionally or not, and is now looking to ensure that he has a very big golden parachute if (when?) the house of cards collapses. He made a series of gambles and they've failed miserably. But by buying what's clearly a controlling share of the company, he's made it a win-win-win situation for him no matter what happens to the company, including if it fails, is taken over or if he's removed from his position (and, obviously, if it turns around and starts to succeed, he'll benifit there too).

By now he probably has a hostile board that is looking for ways to out him, but by purchasing stock he makes this very expensive to do. So if he gets fired, he wins big. If the company fails, he's confident that prior to going into administration that there are plenty of suitors out there that would compete for the company's IP, studio and even manufacturing operations, which would allow him a tidy profit when one or more companies scoop up what would certainly be a good buy. And even if the company goes into administration, he'll likely bail ship before it occurs and sell off his stocks for a tidy sum.

He also knows GW has historically always paid dividends, even when the company is doing terrible (they took out loans to do so this past fy). So he knows that even if the company continues to limp along as it has, he'll still collect his sizeable salary and get a dividend "bonus" regardless if the company snaps out of it's downward spiral or not. On top of this, the "risk" he's taking by holding so much stake in the company sends a message to jittery investors that the future is secure (though it's anything but), and as such will possibly help drive the stock price back up (like it did at the end of summer, thanks to the above dividend pay out and automated buys).

Unfortunately, I can't see this as good news for GW. Kirby is the chief offender in putting the company in the tenuous position it is now and to get rid of him (which has long been necessary) is going to be a very expensive and dangerous proposition, especially if management can't shake out the entrenched "yes-man/fanatic" corporate culture that has them sounding like the Iraqi Minister of Information "The Company is doing fine! Our little miniatures are the bestest on the planet! We are the Porsche of the wargaming world!" yadda, yadda, yadda. I really, really do NOT want to see GW fail or get taken over, but I really don't have any hope for that happening so long as Kirby is at the helm.

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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Canada

I really, really do NOT want to see GW fail or get taken over, but I really don't have any hope for that happening so long as Kirby is at the helm.


My thoughts exactly. I'm shocked, just shocked, that they took out a loan to pay dividends! Since when is paying dividends necessary!?! I thought it was more common to see a company put that money back into infrastructure/expansion of operations?

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Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

There was a time when the Montana Power company was desiganted as the most sound investment to make in the entire country. It wasnt a booming stock, it didnt jump 500 points every year, but it was a sure investement as historically it never faulted, only slowly gained. The state of montan enjoyed the cheapest power bills in the country.

Then, there was a corporation that convinced Montana power to sell its controlling stock to a certain group, ensured that the same company would prosper. WEll that fell through. It was sold and became known as the Evil Touch America. Scandals occured because of the trades and because of touch america. The state of montana now has some of the highest power bills, rivalling even california.

The point of all of this is that Kirby now owns a very solid hold on the company. Not only insuring his continued existance with them, but also has the opportunity to sell GW out if many other investors agree that it would be for the best.

This is a very tenuous situation when a company is owned by people just after the buck (as Kirby obviously is) and could be for the worst because he holds so much power than before.

That said, I dont think GW is in dire straights. The current attitude that GW portrays is a positive influence compared to the last few years.

BUT, we must keep in mind what happened to Wizkids. It was sold to Topps during the height of Mechwarrior popularity, thus providing alot of confidence from Topps that this would be a good aquisition. Mechwarrior dumped in popularity and Topps now spurns most of its better games because they diversified to far.

   
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Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

Posted By Drake_Marcus on 11/24/2006 3:19 PM
I really, really do NOT want to see GW fail or get taken over, but I really don't have any hope for that happening so long as Kirby is at the helm.


My thoughts exactly. I'm shocked, just shocked, that they took out a loan to pay dividends! Since when is paying dividends necessary!?! I thought it was more common to see a company put that money back into infrastructure/expansion of operations?

Paying dividends is completly neccesary. Otherwise, people will not want to continue to invest in a company thatt gives nothing back. Most people arent fooled by loaned dividends though. The price hike in stocks is due to alot of good trading aggressivly for the purpose of the quick buck.

But the stock has fallen again, indicating that the short term investment minded people have made their dough and left.

   
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Plastictrees



Amongst the Stars, In the Night

Now, if those dividends were from profits, that's one thing, but paying dividends bytaking out loans is absolutely not necessary. Indeed, it's an incredibly bad business decision especially given the market. Not only are you banking on increased performance to not only cover the loans, but also to exceed them and return a profit. Given the plummeting loss of units sold, an ever shrinking market, and a continuing to pigheadedly raise prices GW is shooting themselves in the foot. On top of that, aside from cutting staff, they aren't making the necessary changes to bring customers back into the fold. Indeed, they are continuing to piss them off. This is what makes me worry so.

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Sri Lanka

Paying a divdend by taking out a loan is just laughable.

   
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Been Around the Block




Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 11/24/2006 4:40 PM
Now, if those dividends were from profits, that's one thing, but paying dividends bytaking out loans is absolutely not necessary. Indeed, it's an incredibly bad business decision especially given the market. Not only are you banking on increased performance to not only cover the loans, but also to exceed them and return a profit. Given the plummeting loss of units sold, an ever shrinking market, and a continuing to pigheadedly raise prices GW is shooting themselves in the foot. On top of that, aside from cutting staff, they aren't making the necessary changes to bring customers back into the fold. Indeed, they are continuing to piss them off. This is what makes me worry so.


That is the thing.....the words back into the fold. They don't care about veteran customers. They only care about new customers who will spend lots more money then a veteran.
   
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Fireknife Shas'el





A bizarre array of focusing mirrors and lenses turning my phrases into even more accurate clones of

Since some of you guys are well-versed in this (I buy stocks every now but only go on intuition since I'd rather not take business classes to learn stuff I'm never going to use in my future career), mind telling others/me how we should invest for possible profits? If the company's going down, I might as well make a quick buck to cover the costs of the hobby.

Yes, I know there are better things to invest in but it's psychologically gratifying to know you got a bit out of the company you spent money on.


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Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

Posted By Green Angel on 11/25/2006 12:10 AM
Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 11/24/2006 4:40 PM
Now, if those dividends were from profits, that's one thing, but paying dividends bytaking out loans is absolutely not necessary. Indeed, it's an incredibly bad business decision especially given the market. Not only are you banking on increased performance to not only cover the loans, but also to exceed them and return a profit. Given the plummeting loss of units sold, an ever shrinking market, and a continuing to pigheadedly raise prices GW is shooting themselves in the foot. On top of that, aside from cutting staff, they aren't making the necessary changes to bring customers back into the fold. Indeed, they are continuing to piss them off. This is what makes me worry so.


That is the thing.....the words back into the fold. They don't care about veteran customers. They only care about new customers who will spend lots more money then a veteran.
I both agree and disagree.

I dont see how a kid will say "I want to buy 4 shining spear boxes, 4 gaurdian boxes, 3 falcons, 4 waveserpents, 3 squads of aspects, ..."etc. I buy more than all the newbs in town, put together.

But on the whole, I can see newbs buying more than vets. Even if a kid only picks up 2 squad boxes, I suppose that outranks the vets buying armies, on a broader national or international scale.

   
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Dakka Veteran




Bloomington, Illinois - USA

You can make money of a stock going down in price by short-selling it or taking options on the stock.

No real ownership of the shares takes place, you're just entering into a contract to sell shares at an agreed upon price (today's Put Price...) in the future. So, if today's price is 5 1/8 and in 3 months it's 4 1/8 (Call price)...you have a contract in hand to sell X number of shares at 5 1/8 and even if you don't own them (which is sometimes the case in margin call trading) you buy them from the open market at 4 1/8 and make a point per share for your time.

The bigger the fall...the more money you make. However, if stock rises about your Put price, you're in a negative situation and have to cover the margin. Ick.

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Madrak Ironhide







Selling to kids must be market science. 1 veteran = x kiddie buyers.

Out of x kiddie buyers you get y veterans.

Out of y veterans, you get z enablers.

Which yields more kiddie buyers...

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Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

Thank god the enablers are going down... dont see those much anymore in the hobby.

   
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Castle Clarkenstein

Posted By Hellfury on 11/25/2006 8:52 AM
Thank god the enablers are going down... dont see those much anymore in the hobby.

Depends on the area. We have a group of vets that routinely help kids out with the games. They want bigger leagues with more people. Two of them were in this saturday to help a group of 4 guys that all just bought new armies.

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Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

Too bad all areas like yours are not exceptions to the rules...

*thinks fondly back to the days before Y2K when 40K was a growing hobby everywhere, and support for everyone was rife.*

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I agree with Hellfury.

Whilst Vets are more "streetwise" and less likely to buy into GW staff and corporate BS, they will spend more. As they are looking at building armies for serious gaming/ serious painting modelling.

From my experience as a former GW staff member I know that kids will only buy core game sets, or individual squad boxes / blisters etc. A kid is more likely to buy a random blister that they like the look of than something they actually need for the game. Also with the loss of the LOTR boom less and less kids are coming into the stores on the back of that. So the more kids over vets arguement doesn't always ring true, especially in these dark post LOTR times.

Another issue that has to be taken into consideration is the staff members skill at intro games, and their ability to sell the core game to a kid / new person. They will be banking on this, and since you can only sell someone the core game once you are limiting your options for the kid market somewhat. Unfortunately (well in the UK at least) since the company made a whole load of people redundant the quality control regarding hiring new people is much lower. For example when i joined whilst at Uni we had to be strong painters, and know all three main game systems throughly (LOTR, WFB, 40K). Now they only want people to know one system well, and painting standards have dropped.

Intro games are now in my opinion not as strong as they used to be, given this move towards know one game well, learn the others as you go. What happens if the LOTR guy has to run a fantasy intro? You get a substandard intro game where the guy is making most of it up as he goes along. This weakness in understanding and promoting the games to youngsters / new people is affecting their sales also.

Whilst this may have been true to a certain extent in the past also I don't believe that it was as bad as it is now. At least in the store that i used to work the manager had a very high level of what he wanted before he hired people, and as a result we all had a solid grounding in the hobby and could give good games that were fun exciting, and informative when needed. Now since all his good staff have either been made redundant, or left because they have become disalusioned with the company, he is forced to hire local gamers and vets that he knows are not always up to scratch.

The group that i used to work with at my store have all left now, most of us couldn't justify the prices to customers and got fed up of being scolded by the company when we tried to give people honest advice and find the cheapest way for them to enjoy the hobby.

 

   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






Cheltenham, UK

£350 each!?

Hell, he can buy mine for that!

That sounds like bad reportage to me. That would sit about 100 times above the market value of the shares at the moment, which are riding around £3.50.

Has anyone seen an account of this news from a business news outlet? TMP seems to have taken the page away.

R.

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





equities are regularly reported in pence, hence the TMP confusion.

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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




I was under the impression that there is really no obligation to announce dividends. At least, not every year.

 

Sure it is beneficial for the stockholders to obtain dividends on a yearly basis. But at the same time it is beneficial for the company as a whole to grow, which will provide larger profits down the road and a more valuable stock. Anyone expecting yealy dividends from any company is just uninformed or mearly ignorant to the fact that a company can't grow (especially one in a recession like GW) if it makes a fact to announce yearly divindends. These dividends came out of the company's equity, which hampers growth potential. If I were a stockholder, I would prefer they not announce dividends until they can add more value to my stock through growth.

 

Should it also be noted that the value of the GW stock HAS grown quite a bit since this summer? Again, only vaguely versed in this

   
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in southern England.

Dividends are usually paid out of profits. There is no obligation to pay dividends. They help keep the share price up which is beneficial to shareholders who want to sell and to the management as it makes a take-over less likely. This is why they are sometimes paid out of borrowings like in the GW case.

Cash retained makes a company a more attractive take-over target. A good management should find an investment opportunity to spend the cash on, other than just buying back shares.

Successful companies usually pay dividends every year as well as investing in future growth. Many shareholders want dividends to bring them income, but investment is beneficial in the longer term.



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Riverside, CA USA

so does anybody know how much of the total company shares that is?

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Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

Sure do.
Kirby now owns 2.047 million shares, or about 6.6% of the company.

Its a .5% increase in shares since he bought more on july 31st.

   
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In your house, rummaging through your underwear drawer

When was the time the stock started climbing?

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Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

About the time when kirby bought the stock, of course, Just like earlier this summer.

   
 
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