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Hey guys,

With the fact that I am on the very verge of completing an army totally and 100% I turn my eyes to the future.  I have contemplated several list, but something struck me.

As I surfed I saw some amazingly painted Ultramarines and inspiration was formed.  I know, smurfs, but I have always liked them.  I will be painting mine a bit less pristene than what they are normally painted.  I want my Ultramarines to be the guys who have been in the trenches for quite a long time.

Below I feel is a well rounded list, is it optimal??  Probably not, but I come before you dakkites and ask, how does it look.  I'd like to keep the TWV because I already did two sweet conversions...man I gotta buy a digital camera. 

Anyway on to the list:

HQ:
Codicier, Fury of the Ancients, Fear of the Darkness , Force weapon, Bolt pistol, Psychic hood, Terminator Honors
    Total: 124pts

Reclusiarch, melta bombs, bolt pistol, crozius, jump pack, Terminator Honors
    Total: 126pts

Elites:
Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon,
                    Storm Bolter, Extra Armor, Venerable with Tank Hunter
    Total: 140pts

8 Tyranid Veterans, Flamer, Heavy Bolter, Veteran Sergeant with Powerfist
    Total: 182pts

Troops:
6 Tactical space Marines, LasCannon, Plasma Gun
    Total: 115pts

6 Tactical space Marines, LasCannon, Plasma Gun
    Total: 115pts

Fast Attack:
7 Assault Marines, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, 2 flamers, Veteran Sergeant with Powerfist
    Total: 203pts

2 Tornados (Seperate Squads)
    Total: 160pts

Heavy Support:
Predator Annihilator, Heavy Bolter sponsons
    Total: 130pts

8 Devastator Spacemarines, 4 Heavy Bolters
    Total: 180pts

Total: 1475pts
Question did I mess up any point values??  And what should I do with the las 25 points??

Thanks,

Chappy P!

Well, after playing in competitions and for fun I have a few suggestions.

Its a hair cheesey but it will work. There is little issue with it working. Its rounded enough to take on armor and horde alike.

The semi static nature of your tactical squads and devs could cause a little problems for people out of range / people assaulting you. Your ICs could and will be shot up badly if they are not part of a squad.

Remember that Space Smurfs hardly have to be optimal to be effective. You play the Emperor's Chosen so dont be afraid to add flare and have a bit of fun with the army.

you have to have an epistolary to have two psychic powers-that should take out most of the points left over, the term honors isn't really needed as he is there for his powers i think an invul save-combat shield would be more useful

if the chaps with the assault squad he really doesn't need bombs, give him and the squad the same thing

dread looks good, maybe smoke launchers for early game fdont have a lot of vehicles to hide it

vets look good but would really benefit from a vehicle, at least againt tyranids to use though grenades

assault squad looks good, you dont have a lot of ap ignoring weapons though so plas pistols may be better

everyhting else looks fine

so decide for assault if tank,heavy or infantry killers and pick grenades flamer/pistols as necessary

change thecodicer to an epistolary and drop term honors for combat shield

give dread smokes

give pred smokes and extra armor

pretty good list nice to see tyrannic war veterans and devastators

yeah i play ultra's too and i hate painting them all shiny i prefer the more weathered battle weary look, what company are you going to do?

Posted By the_trooper on 11/28/2006 5:03 PM

Its a hair cheesey but it will work

I don't really see anything cheesy about it...

Wow Thanks for all the replies! So let's get on with the business....

@The Trooper:

I totally mean no offense by this, but why would the list be considered cheesey?? I have to agree with Skyth on this one...The only thing I could see is that yes it does have a sort of Older Mauleed styled base (read the Las/Plas Squads, speeders and Heavy bolter devs) but I was trying to employ things that work with things not normally considered optimal (read TWV)

Both of the HQ's will be a part of a squad. The Chaplain will be with the assault squad and The Librarian will join the TWV's.

The army does have a bit of staticness to it, yes, but I do have some counter assault elements in the form of the TWV's and mainly with the Assault squad. They along with the speeder's will linger and see what the enemy will do, then they will move/assault/shoot whatever the priority will be.

Part of my flair honestly is the squad of TWV's, I love the minis! Plus as I said, the conversion I did for the sergeant with fist and the flamer I am quite proud of...I wish I had a dang camera!

I kind of wanted an Ultramarine honor guard, but I felt led to go with a more war torn feel and went with the TWv's instead. I will be using the vertical stripping method of highlighting to try and acheive a beaten look for the boys in blue.

@Mothman 451:

A big opps with the Epistolary! I'll make the change real quick! I'll switch the Terminator Honors with the Shield, which will look cool. Maybe I'll use a spare Empire round shield and carve off the lion head to make a Spartan hoplite type shield...ohhh the ideas are flowing...The librarian will be scratched built...

I thought Melta bombs on the Chappy would help out with some AT action...Maybe I'll just give him frag and krak grenades instead??

I'd love for the TWV's to have a ride, but where do I get the points for one?? I really don't think dropping the squad down to six would be cool...I'd rather try to squeeze out a rhino instead of a razorback, plus I have a rhino ready to go to paint!

I thought I could get away with lack of smoke and use terrain instead. The place I would end up playing tend to play on boards which have a fair amount of terrain. Hmmm...let me think about that one...

As for the Assault squad...I debated and still am debating whether to use plasma of flamers. I have been following the boards pretty heavily and it seems like the better build would be flamers, plus given the armies I would usually face, I think they would work better than plasma...the debate rages on though...

General thoughts about the list?? What are your thoughts out there in dakka-land! Let me have it, If I were to give the TWV's a rhino ride, what needs to go?? Did I do the points right for the predator tank?? Is the list balanced enough?? Cheesy, not too cheesy??

Thanks again,

Chappy P!!

Here's an uptaded list. I changed the Librarian sho he's now legal, opps! I dropped the Terminator honors off of him and gave him the combat shield instead. I dropped the melta bombs off the chappy and gave him frag/krak grenades instead. and finally I picked up another TWV to fill the squad out from 8 man to 9...

My questions raised about are still valid...let's beat this list out to perfection or near perfection!

Thanks Chappy P!

HQ: 258pts
Epistolary, Fury of the Ancients, Fear of the Darkness , Force weapon, Bolt pistol, Psychic hood
Combat Shield
Total: 134pts

Reclusiarch, Frag and Krak Grenades, bolt pistol, crozius, jump pack, Terminator Honors
Total: 124pts

Elites: 339pts
Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon,
Storm Bolter, Extra Armor, Venerable with Tank Hunter
Total: 140pts

9 Tyranid Veterans, Flamer, Heavy Bolter, Veteran Sergeant with Powerfist
Total: 199pts

Troops: 230pts
6 Tactical space Marines, LasCannon, Plasma Gun
Total: 115pts

6 Tactical space Marines, LasCannon, Plasma Gun
Total: 115pts

Fast Attack: 363pts
7 Assault Marines, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, 2 flamers, Veteran Sergeant with Powerfist
Total: 203pts

2 Tornados (Seperate Squads)
Total: 160pts

Heavy Support: 310pts
Predator Annihilator, Heavy Bolter sponsons
Total: 130pts

8 Devastator Spacemarines, 4 Heavy Bolters
Total: 180pts

Total: 1500pts

Posted By skyth on 11/28/2006 5:22 PM

Posted By the_trooper on 11/28/2006 5:03 PM

Its a hair cheesey but it will work

I don't really see anything cheesy about it...

Minimal troop choices at a hair above min squad size.   Yes, he is being pleasant by not donkey cannoning the crap out of his opponents but the min max aspect is still there.

@The Trooper:

True I do have 2 min/max squads but as you said I could have done worse. Imagine If I dropped the TWV's and a few other things to include 2 more of such squads. Again, I am not mad or trying to be an arse, but I guess it could be worse. Sometimes I think I might have hamstrung my list by doing so.

Anyway, any other thoughts, comments, advice...anything??

Thanks ChappyP!!

I think the war veterans add a nice fluffy touch to the list. It is a well balanced list and there isnt any other real troop choices for the ultramarines.

Also, I used to run multiple las plas squads (pot, meet kettle!) and yes they were an awesome fire base but they weren't the most effective units in my army. Your assault based squads will give people trouble especially in 1500.

What are the plans for the HQ as far as deployment goes?

What's your Librarian for? Counter attack? you probably don't need to give him fear of the darkness then.

Otherwise, if you're thinking of putting him with the vet. squad for assaulting (say, against imp. guard or something -- sometimes you don't have a choice) things might get difficult for you as they're going to be footslogging their way across the board.

I would lose melta-bombs on the chappy.  You've got good anti-tank already.

I would drop the veterans and use them as a command squad for the librarian. You could then replace the heavy bolter with a second assault weapon.

As for the 25 additional points?  You could drop tank hunter on the dread and then you have an interesting choice.  I believe tank hunter costs 10 for a dread.  You then have enough points to put the libby and his buddies in a drop pod or buy them the infiltrate skill (I assume vanilla command units can get infiltrate).  Against an assault army, they run counter assault (possibly even dropping behind your lines!  Against a shooting force, they can drop into enemy lines and the libby goes "BOO."

@The Trooper and Logan007:

The Chaplain will run with the Assault Squad. They will hang back and move/assault when and where they are needed.

The Librarian will run with the Tyranid War Vets. I see them as a possible assualting unit, but I want them to be able to bring the full dakka down upon the enemy first. If I am up against Tyranids, then they will focus on the smaller fodder first, such as the various types of guant units.

If I drop the librarian down to the Codificer and drop fear, that would free up 20pts, now where could I scrounge another 30-35pts?? I could drop 1 TWV that would bring me to 37pts, leaving me with 16-21 pts left in order to get a Rhino for the veteran squad.

With a Rhino I could move the squad up to a valuable position on the board and have the Assault marines use the Rhino as rolling cover. The Vets could unload upon a target and have the Assualt marines move in for the kill. I think the two units would work well together...

What are your thoughts on that?

Plausible? Where should I dig for the last remaining points to get the Rhino and With the Rhino, should I just do a stock Rhino, a Rhino with Smoke, or a Rhinoe with both Smoke and Extra armor??

Thanks again for all the responses so far...

Please keep the thoughts/opinions/comments coming...

Thanks Chappy P!

PS: As far as building the army, I have the 2 Tactical squads about halfway built. I have 2 of the TWV's converted up, with plans for the Heavy Bolter guy. I am gonna use the Chaos heavy bolter to show that these guys have been fighting for a long time and are using some pretty old equipment. I have all the rest of the army, but I just need to find the time to sit down and start putting the stuff together. I think with the way I plan on painting the army, that it will go by fast once I get things assembled and primed.

Might as well spend the ten for a missile launcher on the Vennie - he's got tank hunters and no pod, so might as well give him something to do while he waddles into 24" of NME.

Jump Pack for the Epistolary? With Fury and Fear he's a one-man pod if you want to chance it. Also gives him more mobility to stick his force sword in things/pretend to be a skimmer with FotA/make one very mean assault squad.

Krak grenades no needed on the assault squad - that's why they have a power fist.

I will plumb once more for x3 Scout Bikes with melta bombs - they haven't yet become a "net list" unit, seem uncommon, and ought to be fairly effective as tank hunters/nuisance unit.

Places to get mor epoints for other people's suggestions: Tank Hunters from Vennie, the 9th Tyrannic Veteran, the Combat Shield, Terminator Honours on characters, krak grenades (all ready mentioned I think)

@Wight_Widow:

Thanks for the reply! I found out that I did some point valuse wrong in an earlier incarnation of the list. I did take your advice on several things.

I dropped Tank hunter from the venerable dread, imho it wasn't worth it on that particular configuration. I dropped the terminator honors from the chaplain, 15pts for one attack, not sure if it will be worth it. And finally I dropped the krak grenades from the Assault marines and the chaplain since he doesn't need to be totally like the assault squad now.

With the points I skimmed off the list, I managed to pick up a Rhino with Smoke for the TWV's so they can be moved into the best firing/Counter assault position possible. Plus the Assault marines will be able to use the Rhino as mobile terrain till it gets blown up!

So now I have 6 points to spend, I might pick up the dozer blade I dropped from the predator and maybe add a search light, just for the last point??

Thoughts...Thanks again Chappy P! The new revised list is below...


HQ: 221pts
Codicier, Fury of the Ancients, Force weapon, Bolt pistol, Psychic hood, Combat Shield
Total: 114pts

Reclusiarch, Frag Grenades, bolt pistol, crozius, jump pack
Total: 107pts

Elites: 377pts
Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon,
Storm Bolter, Venerable
Total: 125pts

9 Tyranid Veterans, Flamer, Heavy Bolter, Veteran Sergeant with Powerfist
Rhino with Smoke
Total: 252pts

Troops: 230pts
6 Tactical space Marines, LasCannon, Plasma Gun
Total: 115pts

6 Tactical space Marines, LasCannon, Plasma Gun
Total: 115pts

Fast Attack: 356pts
7 Assault Marines, Frag Grenades, 2 flamers, Veteran Sergeant with Powerfist
Total: 196pts

2 Tornados (Seperate Squads)
Total: 160pts

Heavy Support: 310pts
Predator Annihilator, Heavy Bolter sponsons
Total: 130pts

8 Devastator Spacemarines, 4 Heavy Bolters
Total: 180pts

Total: 1494pts