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Thanks for the Wraith Beamer opinions.

I have 3 Canoptek Harvests with 6 Wraiths each. I'll have one of those sets be all Beamers and see how that goes.

Hollismason wrote:
It's 60 points though for the squad pushing the formation to a hefty 400+ points.

Where are you getting 60? Wraiths with Beamers are 50. It's right there in the book.

Requizen wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
It's 60 points though for the squad pushing the formation to a hefty 400+ points.

Where are you getting 60? Wraiths with Beamers are 50. It's right there in the book.

60 to upgrade a full unit from not Beamers to Beamers.


Though as you'd probably be taking Whip Coils if you weren't taking Beamers, it's more like 42.

EDIT: Nevermind, too slow.

I don't think Deathmarks are getting enough love it's a sad thing.

changemod wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
It's 60 points though for the squad pushing the formation to a hefty 400+ points.

Where are you getting 60? Wraiths with Beamers are 50. It's right there in the book.

60 to upgrade a full unit from not Beamers to Beamers.


Though as you'd probably be taking Whip Coils if you weren't taking Beamers, it's more like 42.

Ah, that makes more sense.

Hollismason wrote:
I don't think Deathmarks are getting enough love it's a sad thing.

Yeah, did I miss something with DMs? They used to be great prior to the FAQ getting the Axe. I just don't see how they're at all worth it anymore. unless I'm missing something and if I am please point it out because I'm not seeing it which sucks since I own 15 of the suckers...

 necron99 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
I don't think Deathmarks are getting enough love it's a sad thing.

Yeah, did I miss something with DMs? They used to be great prior to the FAQ getting the Axe. I just don't see how they're at all worth it anymore. unless I'm missing something and if I am please point it out because I'm not seeing it which sucks since I own 15 of the suckers...

They lost the veilTek combo. HfH USR doesn't transfer to IC in the new codex, if I recall correctly.

Deathmarks are... eh. I was really jazzed about the new Ethereal Interception, but HfH nerf was really heavy and uncalled for. They also went up in cost for no reason. Their one big gimmick (Death and Despair) went away, too.

I honestly don't see a reason to bring them, unless you really feel that your army needs an unreliable Interceptor squad.

Deathmarks seem pretty great, yes. Point reduction with interception becoming useful and the nerf to their marking ability honestly being pretty meaningless 90% of the time.

Also they're one of the only units a Decurion can spam. You could run a bulky Reclamation Legion gunline and have five man squads of Deathmarks and Flayed Ones springing up all over the board all game if you like.

changemod wrote:
Deathmarks seem pretty great, yes. Point reduction with interception becoming useful and the nerf to their marking ability honestly being pretty meaningless 90% of the time.

Also they're one of the only units a Decurion can spam. You could run a bulky Reclamation Legion gunline and have five man squads of Deathmarks and Flayed Ones springing up all over the board all game if you like.

They are super nifty for intercepting deep striking troops, just less potent for MC control. Also they seem less potent than same number of points in Flayed Ones, so losing their place at the adult table.

Yeah , I really like them a lot so I'll probably use them. I like the ability a lot, plus rapid firing sniper rifles. That's pretty cool.

Decurion is the way to go with them, Tomb Blades, Flayed Ones, and Deathmarks, hell yes.

Yeah, that's what I thought. too. Plus they lost the ability to get back in to the NS. I used to run 3 death+despair units in NSs and just fly around, hop out and flame/shoot and hop back in and fly off to the next target. Granted you could only reliably slaughter three units but I pissed off a lot of people who thought their 10 man terminator squads were going to roll me. All 3 D&D units hope out flame on - no more termies - fly off to the next target. Rinse and repeat. Ahhh....those were the days

col_impact wrote:

 necron99 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
I don't think Deathmarks are getting enough love it's a sad thing.

Yeah, did I miss something with DMs? They used to be great prior to the FAQ getting the Axe. I just don't see how they're at all worth it anymore. unless I'm missing something and if I am please point it out because I'm not seeing it which sucks since I own 15 of the suckers...

They lost the veilTek combo. HfH USR doesn't transfer to IC in the new codex, if I recall correctly.

Veiltek is lost anyhow, really.

That said, the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator doesn't need the 2+ effect to work, so if you want to drop in a ten man squad with a Conflagrator Destroyer Lord, you could do an extreme version. Preferred enemy helps their shooting from then on too. Not the most optimal unit, but could be a hard counter to some Deathstar or other.

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 necron99 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
I don't think Deathmarks are getting enough love it's a sad thing.

Yeah, did I miss something with DMs? They used to be great prior to the FAQ getting the Axe. I just don't see how they're at all worth it anymore. unless I'm missing something and if I am please point it out because I'm not seeing it which sucks since I own 15 of the suckers...

They lost the veilTek combo. HfH USR doesn't transfer to IC in the new codex, if I recall correctly.

Veiltek is lost anyhow, really.

That said, the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator doesn't need the 2+ effect to work, so if you want to drop in a ten man squad with a Conflagrator Destroyer Lord, you could do an extreme version. Preferred enemy helps their shooting from then on too. Not the most optimal unit, but could be a hard counter to some Deathstar or other.

Yeah, they are for sure still cool, just flayed ones are stone cold nuts.

I could see a use for a full squad of ten to just drop in on something , plus 2+ wounding on the first roudn with BS 4 is gonna put some wounds a MCs.

Wait, so Deathmarks getting not-cheesy and more fluffy is a bad thing? I think they're great still. They can still kill MCs just like before, and now they can screw with Melta drop pods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
I could see a use for a full squad of ten to just drop in on something , plus 2+ wounding on the first roudn with BS 4 is gonna put some wounds a MCs.

That is always a good use for them, though running multiple small units of them is also a decent option.

Yeah I like the unit I haven't used them enough. I think they're a good addition to the decurion w/ Flayed ones.

Multiple small units. That's pretty nice.

A big squad just seems to be asking to mishap. Smaller squads feel better, and you can scatter them about to get good angles as well.

Still, if you don't annihilate the thing that you're intercepting, then they're just kinda mediocre after that. Especially if you Interecept on your side of the board (drop pods, Mawlocs, etc), and then need to footslog them across to anything else to shoot at.

Most I would do is 2 squads of 5, personally.

I think death marks are awesome for AV protection I am going to be running 5 AV13 units and to counter the heavy drop pod meta at my LFGS so their meltas can drop into a sniper trap and protect my armor. all n all I think they are great in 7th.

The big difference really is that last edition, I took one or two units nearly every game, but now there's more than one useful thing to do with Elites slots.

Yeah they're a decent melta counter which is good.

There might be *better* things to do with the elites slots, but we have so many viable options that that isn't saying all that much. Will there be death marks in a top tier LVO list? Unlikely. But if they round out your army comp and fill in its weaknesses then that's all that really matters.

I feel like I would prefer having more than just min squads though. I mean, with 5 coming in, they hit say 7 times out of 10 shots times, wound 6 or so, 1 ish of which are AP 2? Hardly going to decimate any squad that you likely want to remove. I'd rather go big or go home (but that's also a personal philosophy haha)

No I'm the same way I like using big squads, I will occassionally play MSU but I just like using max squad sizes.

We're just an army that doesn't need big blobs. Unless you are limited by force organization or formations there's no benefit of maxing our squads.

1 unit of 10 death marks deals the same damage as 2 units of 5 except you can split your target priority if you want and you can force your opponent to overkill your squads since they can only remove 5 from the min squad and whatever they kill from the 10 man. MSU is used competitively because it's just better unless you need x number for said upgrade.

Punisher wrote:
We're just an army that doesn't need big blobs. Unless you are limited by force organization or formations there's no benefit of maxing our squads.

1 unit of 10 death marks deals the same damage as 2 units of 5 except you can split your target priority if you want and you can force your opponent to overkill your squads since they can only remove 5 from the min squad and whatever they kill from the 10 man. MSU is used competitively because it's just better unless you need x number for said upgrade.

Another way of looking at that is:

"You give up two easy kill points to your opponent instead of one more difficult kill point. Furthermore, the amount of damage output that a 5 man squad puts out is not likely to overkill anything"

MSU is often used competitively to min/max a list; however there are a number of units that will take as many models as you can fit in them. See wraiths, flayed ones, etc.

 luke1705 wrote:


Another way of looking at that is:

"You give up two easy kill points to your opponent instead of one more difficult kill point. Furthermore, the amount of damage output that a 5 man squad puts out is not likely to overkill anything"

MSU is often used competitively to min/max a list; however there are a number of units that will take as many models as you can fit in them. See wraiths, flayed ones, etc.

Except kill points show up so infrequently in games its not that much to worry about. The part about damage output was more that your opponent has to overkill the squad and "waste" shots that wouldn't be wasted otherwise. An example would be a centurion squad shoots at your 5 man squad wiping it with lots of wounds left over, those wounds would surely have dealt more damage if the unit was fuller.

However with certain units the kill points can be a concern, specifically if it's a first blood risk. But with the deathmark in particular since it's what was being discussed it's in deepstrike reserve and will likely come in after first blood anyway.

If that's true in the games you play, then go for it. However in maelstrom (especially modified) they show up quite a bit. And there are a couple of missions where kill points play a large roll. I usually just roll a d6 to see what mission I play, so I like for my army to have as few liabilities as possible. It's not game-breaking either way, but I think the cons generally outweigh the pros. Unless you don't play kill points. In which case go nuts!

FWIW btw, Necrons are not great at getting first blood turn one so if you don't give it up, then I would worry a little more since the death marks will likely be sitting there for the taking on your opponent's turn 2

Requizen wrote:
You don't lose Relentless when the Spyder dies, only RP/Fleet/Shred. So Beamers are still good even if they focus the Spyder or you leave it behind.

Unless I am reading the rule wrong, the buff is applied to everything within range during the movement phase, then it lasts until the start of the players next movement phase. I would assume that the RP/fleet/shred would last until the beginning of my next movement phase, whether the spyder dies or not.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
You don't lose Relentless when the Spyder dies, only RP/Fleet/Shred. So Beamers are still good even if they focus the Spyder or you leave it behind.

Unless I am reading the rule wrong, the buff is applied to everything within range during the movement phase, then it lasts until the start of the players next movement phase. I would assume that the RP/fleet/shred would last until the beginning of my next movement phase, whether the spyder dies or not.

You're right, but that has nothing to do with the use of Beamers on Wraiths. The rule for Relentless is granted to everything in the formation regardless of range to the spyder. The Wraiths need Relentless to fire the Beamers and still charge/move without using snap shots.