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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




South of Philadelphia

http://www.privateerpress.com/

Sad but true, due to the price of Tin nearly doubling the past few years, PP will be forced to raise the price of nearly all of their Prime and Escalation lines as well as as many of the Mercs in the Superiority book (due to most of them being out for over a year). 

On the site is is a full explanation of why, how, and when the raise will take affect.


See that? That thing just stuffed two other things into that bigger thing! What in Morrow's name is going on?"
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Well, it sucks, but the increase isn't too huge. Hopefully, they don't make an annual tradition like GW. I may have to make some purchases before the new year.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



California

Interesting.

I just made a post in the discussions area to rant on it, and to provide a place to people to *female dog* about this increase, and for me to compare GW to PP.

Let's keep this thread merely about the increase, and keep the whining in the discussion area.

"I know what hearsay is, I do not know what a federal librarian is as I am not American and to me a librarian is a person who helps you find books and then returns them back to their shelves or stacks at night (so your credentials do not awe me, and do not impress me" -
IG fan 
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

One way to look at it. Its one way to drive christmas sales up.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







How will raising prices drive christmas sales up?

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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

Well, the price hike is supposed to happen january of 2007. No one wants to buy models at an increased hike. Thus people will buy even more during christmas.

Though that is not what I truly think is happening. Its just a nice benefit from that.

My feelings is that they are making sure that everyone is able to get their holiday buying in before the price hike. Its just two ways of looking at the same thing.

   
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







I guess I should read the post...

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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in ca
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






hehe
I thought it was said that GW were the devil when they said the increase in the price of tin would affect costs?
   
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






 

Bah. The cost of materials is miniscule....this is pure greed. All they want is more money. They know they have hooked a ton of gamers into Warmachine and that its the hottest thing going now, so why not milk it for what its worth. I for one will be proxying prepaints from the DnD line that you can get for nickels.

 


.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I'm just going to wait and see if this becomes a continuing trend or not. It's not like I buy massive amounts of stuff... Just a unit here and there. Just the same as GW or anyone else, if the price goes above what I consider to be reasonable, I'll just hit the web and get my stuff used instead. I'm not exactly running for cover just yet, though.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




South of Philadelphia

Posted By deitpike on 12/04/2006 5:19 PM
hehe
I thought it was said that GW were the devil when they said the increase in the price of tin would affect costs?

The problem w/ GW arguement is that most of their lines are made of plastic.  When the price hike went into action due to the "price of tin" most of the plastics went up as well. 

Last i checked tin was not in plastic.


See that? That thing just stuffed two other things into that bigger thing! What in Morrow's name is going on?"
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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Canada

Posted By Kaile_Bloodhammer on 12/04/2006 6:28 PM
Posted By deitpike on 12/04/2006 5:19 PM
hehe
I thought it was said that GW were the devil when they said the increase in the price of tin would affect costs?

The problem w/ GW arguement is that most of their lines are made of plastic.  When the price hike went into action due to the "price of tin" most of the plastics went up as well. 

Last i checked tin was not in plastic.


Riiight, but they didn't use that excuse to justify the price raise on plastic kits.  Also- material costs are about 2% of the miniature, so this is a little bs anyway.

Regardless, this should NOT turn into a price discussion unless it's in terms of the rumour, not in terms of speculation. 

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In your house, rummaging through your underwear drawer

The LME lists tin as about 4.90 USD per pound by their latest figures.

"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow"~Oscar Wilde 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Canada

Ok, so that 2% price seems to have changed over the years, but none the less- it's not too far off. A $10 increase in boxed set price would FULLY cover 2 extra pounds of tin.

FULLY. Oh, and how many pounds of tin are there in a box of 6 soldiers?

Yeaaahhh. Well I'm not going to smile and say "wow- that's a fully explanation". This is a preemptive increase to cover tin price increases well into the next decade.

That or I'm getting bitter about price raises. I'm just stating the economic facts as I know them.

"Nothing from the outside world can be imported into Canada without first being doused in ranch dressing. Canadian Techs have found that while this makes the internet delicious it tends to hamper the bandwidth potential. Scientists are working furiously to rectify the problem. "

--Glaive Company CO 
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




In your house, rummaging through your underwear drawer

In their defense, tin has gone down in price in the past little while, so don't be too bitter, Drake.

I'm sure Privateer has razor thin margins, and they don't have other revenue streams to tap like GW (computer games, books, Forgeworld, Phil Kelly's Chimney Sweeping/Gigolo Service, etc)

"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow"~Oscar Wilde 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







The economic situation as I see it:

My budget is x per month. raising prices just means I buy less.

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sorry, I should have added multiple smileys to my post
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Tyranny of Evil Men




Los Angeles

Posted By malfred on 12/04/2006 9:37 PM
The economic situation as I see it:

My budget is x per month. raising prices just means I sell my children as slaves to sweat shops in developing countries in order to maintain my current level of miniature purchases.
Fixed your typo.

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Been Around the Block




First time in 3 years that the prices go up.

So I guess its almost normal.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Canada

Posted By bigchris1313 on 12/05/2006 1:12 AM
Posted By malfred on 12/04/2006 9:37 PM
The economic situation as I see it:

My budget is x per month. raising prices just means I sell my children as slaves to sweat shops in developing countries in order to maintain my current level of miniature purchases.
Fixed your typo.

Hahahaha.  Classic.  AND we all know Malfred well enough to know he doesn't have children.  Malfred takes his clones to those father-son picnics.

"Nothing from the outside world can be imported into Canada without first being doused in ranch dressing. Canadian Techs have found that while this makes the internet delicious it tends to hamper the bandwidth potential. Scientists are working furiously to rectify the problem. "

--Glaive Company CO 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The way I see it is that the stuff that they increased the price on is all of their old models; this is when the game was in its infancy. It?s pretty clear to me that they were selling these miniatures at little to no profit in order to develop a consumer base. Now that they have ?got their foot in the door? they are going back and re-evaluating the price to bring it in line with the market.

This whole excuse of the price of tin going up is total BS. I do understand where they are coming from though; they pretty much had to make up an excuse. A ?Hey, now that we have gotten all of you guys hooked, we are going back and increasing the price of our old models in order to make a better profit margin? would not have been well received.
   
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Madrak Ironhide







The clones masquerade as my father.

"Who's your daddy? WHO'S YOUR DADDY?"

*ahem*

Excuse me.

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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Philadelphia

And so it begins, PP has a 'foot in the door' and now we see the price rises. It'll be interesting how much slack they get cut (since they're not GW), since they're 'more friendly and listen to their customers'.

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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







The prices rose back in April with the release of Hordes. I don't think
sales are down.

And I think the difference is just that it's the difference between dealing
with a board of directors and a smaller company where the designers
are also stakeholders. The smaller company is more versatile whereas the
board has to act more cautiously.

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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





We had to see this coming. The price for a similarly sized warjack or warbeast from Hordes or Superiority is already much higher. Compare a Crusader to a Castigator for example.

I'm not saying their stated reasons for increasing prices is valid. I'm just saying that its been in the wings for a while.

Get 'em while they're hot, boys!

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





whats funny is in April with the increase on the newer stuff that was coming out, they stated then that it was only the new Hordes and Superiority stuff that was going to have the higher price, we will never increase the price of our Prime/Escalation line

Read my lips, no new increases...

Glad I got out of WM while the getting was good, and I agree some of the same people that slam GW everytime they raise something will defend this practice by PP

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Da Southern New Hampshire!

Well look at it. You buy one heavy jack, thats already a good percentage of your army composition right there.
Its not like you need that many.

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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Posted By 2.0 on 12/05/2006 6:46 PM
whats funny is in April with the increase on the newer stuff that was coming out, they stated then that it was only the new Hordes and Superiority stuff that was going to have the higher price, we will never increase the price of our Prime/Escalation line

Read my lips, no new increases...

Glad I got out of WM while the getting was good, and I agree some of the same people that slam GW everytime they raise something will defend this practice by PP

Did they really say never increase price on the Prime Escalation line? Or never
make them obsolete.I remember reading a few things, but from what I recall they
said that the older stuff would remain the same. I don't remember them saying
"for always."

Ah well, saying always and never is going to get you in trouble in business.

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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Mechanithrall




Posted By 2.0 on 12/05/2006 6:46 PM
whats funny is in April with the increase on the newer stuff that was coming out, they stated then that it was only the new Hordes and Superiority stuff that was going to have the higher price, we will never increase the price of our Prime/Escalation line

Read my lips, no new increases...

Glad I got out of WM while the getting was good, and I agree some of the same people that slam GW everytime they raise something will defend this practice by PP


Absolutely false.  PP has never said that they won't ever raise prices.  All they said is that they haven't.  Unfortuntaely, it's 2006 and prices on everything go up...  Here's a quote from Matt Wilson, one of the owners of PP.  Take it in context, it was in a complaining post about how "WM is priced like GW now. 

First, you're wrong. The Dire Troll is significantly heavier than a Juggernaut. I wish I had the model weights at home, but fortunately, I rarely need that information here. I'm happy to post them Monday if anyone likes. What rubs me a little raw here, though, is that the entire premise of this post is false. I don't mind if people point out Privateer's shortcomings all day long, but at least get the facts straight.

Now, allow me to draw you a picture:
(If this works, there's goingto be a picture of a graph of tin prices, starting September 1, 2002 when we started production of WARMACHINE, and ending May 2, 2006, today. Unfortunately, I have never in the last three years posted a picture, so I don't know if this is going to work or not. If it doesn't and you want to see it for yourself, go here and enter in those dates for yourself

http://www.lme.co.uk/tin_graphs.asp

(Okay, the picture showed up at the bottom.)
As the astute might guess, the graph shows a significant increase in the price of tin—the metal we make our models out of—over the past four years. Note that during that time, not once have we raised prices. We HAVE priced models accordingly with the current price of metal, however. And we will continue to do so. The simple fact of the matter is that metal costs more now than it did when we started making WARMACHINE. Even if, for example, a Dire Troll weighed the SAME as a Juggernaut, today it would be priced higher than the Juggernaut whiich got priced three years ago. The other fact of the matter is, that because we haven't raised prices on this stuff, we're kind of taking a bath on some of it. We make a lot less money on the earlier produced models than we do on current ones, and at a certain point, when we can't sustain a company on those margins, things have to change.

So here's the reality bomb: we have never said we would not raise prices. We have said that 'never have' and we have said that 'we don't have any current plans to'. But I will tell you right now that someday, we will raise prices across the board, unless the price of tin drops dramatically. However, historically, metal prices rarely go down unless massive quantities of the resource are suddenly discovered. Right now, the world is very focused on silver mining, and the few places that actually produced tin are supplying very little, so this isn't a phenomenon you will be seeing with tin in the near future. Times change, inflation rises, and a business has to adapt to the way the world is going. As consumers, so do you. The uninformed will believe that we should keep prices the same forever and are tantamount to criminals if we do any differently. The educated and observant will understand that a company doesn't stay in business if they're taking a loss on their product.

Something else you have to understand is that we've never sold ourselves as a cheaper alternative to GW. It costs money to make top shelf products, and they're not going to be sold at bargain basement prices. If all you care about is the price, you're playing the wrong game. And the truth is, WARMACHINE and HORDES aren't for everybody. These are games for people of discriminating taste, not folks that don't really care if the lump of metal in front of them looks good or not, so long as they didn't have to pay much for it. We have sold our game as having a low entry price, and that is and will always be true. A battlebox or a warpack are a low price for starting a miniatures game. They're not cheap—you're paying for those miniatures. But you can have a fulfilling gaming experience with the contents of that box without having to invest hundreds of dollars up front just to be able to start a game. We have never touted the prices of our miniatures as a low priced alternative to anything. We're going to make great stuff, and great stuff is going to be costed appropriately.

Does this make us like GW? I'm pretty sure it doesn't. I doubt the owner, much less anyone, is going to get up on a Saturday morning to give this kind of explanation to some forum users. Also, we always hold up our end of the bargain—when you spend your money on our products, it's money well spent. Privateer also delivers an unmatched level of service when you purchase our products, and genuinely care for the people that play our game. Just because we actually have to charge money for the products we make, I don't believe it's justifiable to stand us next to an icon that you feel is disreputable. At the end of the day, though, you have the final vote. And if you believe there is a better game with better models, better service, and a better overall consumer experience at a cheaper price, then you know what to do. So far I don't think you can get a better bang for your buck than what Privateer has to offer.
Here's a link to the post.
Knight
   
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Posted By 2.0 on 12/05/2006 6:46 PM
Read my lips, no new increases...

Glad I got out of WM while the getting was good, and I agree some of the same people that slam GW everytime they raise something will defend this practice by PP


Now if only you would get out of the threads talking about it.  PP still has my trust. I believe thier products are superior and getting better. An occasional price hike, doesn't bother me. Should their quality drop or they develop the "well its good enough" attitude of GW, then I'll have a problem with them.

Give in to your hate 2.0, it will make you powerful. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

   
 
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