Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've got my reasonably well painted Ulthwe laying around, and if I show up at a certain store with drop pods again I'm likely to by lynched.

So what do you think of this?

Farseer, warding, spirit stones, doom, guide

Avatar (to make all the guardians fearless)

8 banshees (or possibly scorpions, but in either case just for countercharge)

5X10 guardians with bright lances

2 (separate) vypers with missile launchers (for indirect fire hunting)

3X3 warwalkers with 4 scatter lasers and 2 starcannons, spirit stones (thanks to Blackmoor for that config)

The idea is that it simply outshoots everything and countercharges anything that happens to get close, or pushes a unit of guardians outside the fearless range to die and then shoots what just killed them. Recon missions are a problem, and pods should still beat the pants off this, but it seems reasonably workable otherwise.

I just want to make sure I understand the WW layout:

Each Squad of 3 has 2 walkers w/2 Scatter Lasers, and 1 walker with 2 starcannon. Is that correct?

That is correct.

It gives it some AP2 punch if you really need it, but still keeps the unit cheap.

That's a really neat idea. I like the list, but a few questions:

1. No runes of witnessing?
2. brightlances+bs3? I know there's 5 of 'em, but still...are you just assuming that you won't have more than one real nasty tank to deal with at a time?

An interesting concept...

The warwalker layout is a good idea. I faced one 3 unit squad with a very similar set up to that before. It would have been pretty effective if my orbital bombardment didn't screw it from Turn 1.

I've got reservations about the Guardian squads myself, but if you've got your Farseer babysitting with his guide, then they might get the job done.

And the farseer might want to take his Runes of Witnissing (if thats the extra dice one, not 100%). With Perils of the Warp able to insta kill now, you want to limit that possibility as much as you can.

Runes of witnessing increases the chance of perils of the warp considerably.

I think I would rather have Eldrad than the avatar there. With those warwalker, I think more guide would be better. Also, by using cover, the guardians shouldn't have to worry about morale check too often. The avatar is good for the counter charge, but I don't think it's necessary for the fearless boost.

Another question, why the spirit stone on the warwalkers? They have so much firepower that I would think that if anyone is shooting at them they would pour enough firepower into a unit to knock them all out. So I'm not sure how much the spirit stone would help them.

1. Fearlessness is the only real way to counter fear of the darkness.

2. I can think of plenty of situations where I'll have one stunned walker and want to move to let the rest of the squad have some LOS to something (or simply hide). Remember, the vehicle squadron rules work so that it's very unlikely that all the vehicles get damaged. The first shot always goes on the closest walker, and you distribute hits, not pen results, between them. So it's very likely you'll have one walker stunned by one shot, then stunned again by the next, etc.

I think you will have better luck with Eldar Missle launchers than Brightlances.

First off you automatically gain 50 points to your army list. A Brightlance is only marginally better versus vehicles and you already have a good amout of AP2 weapons. The Missle Launchers also offer great utility, remember their blast is AP4, better than a Space Marine missle.

Also, I would only run 2 Squads of War Walkers. 9 War Walkers seems offly hard to hide. If you replace the thrid War Walker Squad with a Wraithlord w/ EML and Brightlance, you gain an unstunnable gun platform that will help you out a little better against Nidzilla lists.

Also Harlequins seem the better counter assault for this list, mainly because the Shadow sear keeps them protected from longe range fire.

Just my thoughts.

I'm definitely thinking that the harlies are a perfect compliment to this.

But the lances stay. They're more than 50% better against AV13 and 300% better against AV14. And the AP2 is just icing. That's worth 50 points to me.

Seems like a solid list. I'd be curious to see how it performs. Let us know your results. For the Adepticon TT we had a similar concept but it focused on Dire Avengers. While our testing was netting great results we found that in close games, we'd end up on the short end of the stick (minor losses and draws) due to the frailness of the troops. You are also correct that certain pod configs can still pants this list.

Capt K

Good point about FoD, but with the rune of warding, average roll on 3D6 is 11, so odds are slightly in your favor for them to fail their psychic test, also the increased chaces of Perils of the Warp might make the player think twice about casting.

I just think that if your going to take 3 walker squads, than 3 guides are going to help a lot.

Well at 0% chance of fear working makes me a whole lot more comfortable than a 50% chance.

3 guides would be nice and the redeployment + scout move of the warwalkers would be great. I'm sure I'll try it at some point.

Realized that soon after I typed it; ghosthelm is probably all the PotW defence you need.

RoWarding is a neat little trick; agree with previous poster regarding Eldrad.

I know everyone has a big crush on Harlies, but for simple counter-assault, a unit of banshees w/Exarch (War Shout + Executioner) should really do the trick just fine. Harlies one big advantage is the shadowseer, but you're paying a premium in a list that's already pretty tight, points wise (especially if you swap in Eldrad)...

Even if FoD works, depending on scatter and your unit placement, he will not get all 5 of the guardians squads. Even than you have 42% chance of passing a moral check on LD6. Even after they fail, you would have had a turn to move them at least 12" away from your board edge, and with the weapons platform, they would still be able to shoot the bright lance even as they fell back.

I would take the risk and get Eldrad in there. Also with the avatar, that just give your oponent one large MS to shoot their Lascannons at.

Ed, you don't suspect that this army might be kind of dull to play? Like the guard infantry horde?

After playing my own Ulthwe for awhile, I've found a common problem whether it be 1500 points or 2000; Necrons.  One Monolith is bad enough, two get frustrating.

I played against a 2 Monolith army in a tourney last weekend and realized how badly I needed Singing Spears. I had lots and lots of S6 weapons (useless), a few S8 weapons which never got a glancing hit and assaulting them were ridiculous.

I know, I know, ignore them and go for phase out. That didn't work either. My shooting was NOT effective enough after two We'll be back rolls and my assaults weren't effective enough to sweep them.

You have little in the ways to deal with Monoliths, which can be a top tier army in my opinion. Against Drop Pods, I think you are in pretty good shape actually b/c of the Fearless nature of 50 Guardians. I also agree that Eldrad would be a nicer fit to this army.

Let us know how it fares.

 

 

 

 

I really feel its best to go for eldrad and the avatar. Besides making all your units fearless, he makes assault a risky prospect. (especially with your banshees/scorps as backup) And the redeploy+scout move of the walkers means you have the potential to really throw your opponents anti tank weaponry out of position.

That being said, I dont like the list.

Basically all of your long range firepower rests in your war walkers, and even with guide, they cant compete with any stationary firepower army. Even worse, your firepower is clustered in easily destroyable squadrons(!) that can be taken down by almost every common heavy weapon in the game.  I know you wanted to use the 9 warwalkers, but they currently are a SHOOT ME FIRST! target, and are unfortunately the only one in the army.

Posted By Flavius Infernus on 12/06/2006 2:46 PM
Ed, you don't suspect that this army might be kind of dull to play? Like the guard infantry horde?

I've never found shooty armies to be dull. And this has to move alot to work, so it's certainly not static.

Just keeping the warwalkers alive should be entertaining enough.

Sarigar: Against monoliths I'll just dump all the S8 shots into them. I'll only average a glance every 2 of 3 turns, but eventually I'll bring one down. What I really worry about is deep striking monoliths.

From my experience, anybody who actually has a clue how to play Necrons will never start the Monolith on the board if they can Deep Strike (not sure if they always get to deep strike or not). With the very favorable rules for placing Monoliths deep striking, I did not fare well at all trying to handle 2 of them.

IIRC, you can still shoot and penetrate the Monolith as it does not move over 6". S9 at least gives you that chance.

 

Have you thought about sticking warlocks with singing spears and embolden in the squads in place of the avatar? You can reroll Morale, and it gives you a weapon you can use against the Monoliths.

I played a Biel Tan list in the old rules, mostly because I wanted to be able to place my Dark Reapers last, and I can still play the army with this codex. My big concern are ZillaNids, and Necrons with Monoliths...

I'm not a fan of models that can be killed by one lascannon...hence no vypers or warwalkers for me. Have you thought about a couple units of jetbikes with shuriken cannons and warlocks with singing spears? Or the jetbike seer council?

Also, why 1750? Most tournies are 1850-2000 these days.

To me, it seems a good tourney list can handle A. Hordes, B. Monoliths and big stuff, and C. Marines. Throw in some mobility to handle objective taking and you are set. Your list can handle all three, but it doesn't have alot of redundancy, but then, thats the Eldar's weakness.