Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My brother plays Tau and I seem to have trouble beating him with my Eldar. Am I a lousy eldar player or is this a difficult match up for eldar? He uses a lot of fire warriors which forces my aspect warriors to use expensive transports and he still manages to put a several crisis suits on the field since FWs are so cheap. I have lots of wraithguard and have had some success with a fortuned 10 man squad but they can't catch crisis suits.

It's possible that I just don't have the right units (warp spiders or swooping hawks for example) but I would appreciate any advice you might have... 

Assault his firewarriors, you will win.

Hmm, you could list build until you get a list powerful enough to almost guarantee a win. But then your Tau friend might complain of cheese.

There's a certain point where you can build your list so it's effective but can't be won by any slowed monkey. I'd try to reach that point. What's your list?

I would suggest fielding a couple squads of Striking Scorpions with Infiltraite, or some Harlequins, if you have the models. Transports will tend to get blasted away quickly by the Tau, as you've experienced, but a fairly durable unit with good assault capacity can tear the heart out of firewarriors, since he can't pierce their armor.

If you want to settle your grudges against a battlesuit team or two, use jetbikes of some sort. I would personally suggest four shining spears, one upgraded to an Exarch, accompanied by an Autarch or a Farseer -- but again, it's a matter of models, since I know I have none of the above, doubtful a they were before the current codex.

Finally, a deceptive choice: storm guardians in bunches of Wave Serpents. Sure, the FW rifles can kill a bunch of em off -- but Storm G. are two points cheaper, can have a Warlock, and Flamers are Very Bad for Tau, while your high-init, higher-WS storm guardians can kick em around in combat.

I'd avoid some of the traditional Eldar faves, though. Sadly, Wraithlords and Falcons are asking for it from mobile heavy weapons, and Guardian Defenders tend to get messily splattered by massed pulse rifle volleys. Dire Avengers don't AP, and so they are a little too ineffective without a lot of luck.

-Adso

Warlock with Destructor on Jetbike could be fun...especially with a singing spear for some nasty throws against his vehicles.

Just a thought.

Greets
Schepp himself

Falcons and fireprisms are good vs tau. They are there simply to attract all heavy weapon fire which takes forever to kill them. Take two falcons with small scorpion units inside and go crisis hunting.
Then take two max units of gardian jetbikes. Fortune the jetbikes and turbo boost them forward turn 1 along with the falcons. Turn two unload the scorps to attack his crisis suits if he didnt backpeddle fast enough and blast/assult his firewarrior line into peices with the bikes. This should leave you with enough free points to get some other units.
Dont take waveserpents, they will die horrible deaths as they lack the holo fields that make falcons so annoying.

O, and dont take harliequins. SMS systems ignore LOS and the shadowseer rule so they can hit you 24 in away.

Posted By cypher on 12/11/2006 7:46  and dont take harliequins. SMS systems ignore LOS and the shadowseer rule so they can hit you 24 in away.

Why is this?

Against Tau you need only three different units to win: 3 Falcons with 6 Harlies each and the rest jetbikes, Shining Spears are best.

Its that simple.

However, if you want a fair game which is fun for both of you I'd need to know what your and his lists look like.

Posted By kwade on 12/11/2006 8:00 AM

Posted By cypher on 12/11/2006 7:46  and dont take harliequins. SMS systems ignore LOS and the shadowseer rule so they can hit you 24 in away.

Why is this?

They don’t.  I’ve seen several players make this mistake, thinking that the Veil works like Nightfighting by denying LOS. 

 

Cypher, the Harlequin psychic power prevents enemy models from TARGETING the unit unless they are within the rolled distance.  It has nothing to do with LOS, hence SMS and indirect fire weapons don’t bypass it.

Actually, Veil of Tears uses the mechanics of Night Fight, but anti-Night Fight wargear (enhanced Senses, search lights) cannot be used against it (similar to how the GK Shroud works), which is why you can indead bypass it with things like Barrage weapons (though these deviate extra) and Smart Missle Systems. Indeed, the shrouding is basically just a weaker version of Veil of Tears and you can confirm this from the DH faq.

That said, clowns are a poor choice against tau. What you want are a warlock jetbike unit and as many hawks/spiders as you can fit in. Back this up with jetbike troop choices and some prisms and you will have your way with virtually any Tau list out there. You send the bikes (fortuned of course) at the FW and suits, and let the Hawks and spiders rock his tanks. There is very little a Tau player can do against a speed list, especially one built around Turbo Boosting bikes with fortune.

I think I see my problem... I don't have any jetbikes assembled and painted. I never got around to it as they used to be pretty expensive. I also don't have harlies or storm guardians.

his usual list:
2-3 full FW squads
1-2 cheap kroot squads (no shapers, krootox, etc.)
1 broadside team
2 hammerheads
about 6 crisis suits (including commander)

As I was afraid of I am missing some units that are Ideal for killing Tau.
My army selection consists of:
several farseers
Yriel (don't see him being of much use here)
Maugan ra
Karandras
10 scorpions
9 banshees
6 fire dragons
25 wraithguard (I did play Iyanden rules)
22 guardian defenders including 2 heavy weapons
10 dire avengers
8 rangers
5 warp spiders
1 vyper (StC & shuricannon)
2 wave serpents
1 falcon
3 wraithlords
10 dark reapers (only one exarch -who has a ML)
and about 8 warlocks altogether

So as you can see I originally collected to beat Meqs. Any thoughts on how to make a workable anti- tau list from this?

Thanks in advance.

Posted By Phazael on 12/11/2006 1:24 PM
Actually, Veil of Tears uses the mechanics of Night Fight, but anti-Night Fight wargear (enhanced Senses, search lights) cannot be used against it (similar to how the GK Shroud works), which is why you can indead bypass it with things like Barrage weapons (though these deviate extra) and Smart Missle Systems. Indeed, the shrouding is basically just a weaker version of Veil of Tears and you can confirm this from the DH faq.

Incorrect. The Veil of Tears power uses the Veil of Tears rules. A unit failing to spot the Harlies using the Veil of Tears rules may not fire that turn. No mention of Night Fighting rules, or LOS. Just because of a similarity you have made an assumption which is incorrect. The rule for Veil of Tears is very clear on this.

From this list, I would take....

HQ
Karandras or Ra --> Ra is probably the better bet, as he can lead your Reapers and keep them together under the inevitable heavy casualties, since he'll make them fearless. Karandras will make your scorps into a death machine, though, and free up their Wave Serpent.
Farseer --> Accompany the Scorpions or the Reapers. Fortune, Guide, and maybe Doom.

ELITES
Dragons --> Suicide squad. See Falcon explanation.
Scorpions (in Serpent) --> Run these guys up the flank where the Crisis Suits aren't, and rip into some FWs. 'Nuff said.

TROOPS
Avengers in Serpent --> Mobile Reserve. Adaptability means these guys go where your dice look bad.
Pathfinders --> Scoring unit, hard to kill, those rending shots can play hell with battlesuits
2 Min Squads of Guardians, no Warlocks, Scatterlas. --> Meat. Also, scatterlas can do good damage to FWs.
10 WL w/Spiritseer --> The most terrifying thing ever for Tau -- something they can't kill. If you have to drop something, though, drop these, since they'll have a hard time making range with their guns.

FAST
Warp Spiders --> Excellent at killing FWs via a shoot-assault-run, or getting in behind skimmertanks.

HEAVY
Falcon (for the Dragons) --> Pretty simple Snakes on a Plane. With star Engines, holofield, vector, you should survive the initial attention to deliver them straight into his Hammerheads/Broadsides. Kamakaze style.
Dark Reapers --> Crisis Suit deterrence. Just keep em in cover and out of sight of big templates.
Wraithlord --> Counter assault. Can tie up Kroot forever, and massacre them if equipped with 2x flamers on the hands.

-Adso

Thanks for the advice. I do have, however, some reservations.

I only recently considered Karandras but I should have thought of him sooner. with him leading scorpions they won't be pinned or fall back and even if they kill everybody else, he can kill the entire army in CC.

I'm not too sure about warpspiders as I only have 5.

I am planning on using Snakes though to kill hammer heads/ broadsides

I'm not so sure about the dire avengers though. Not because theyr'e bad but because their guns are kind of a waste against FW; they either shoot and kill everything in assault range and get shot up severely on the next turn or they charge and don't even use their guns. I guess I just need to learn to time things better with them.

Dark reapers- I LOVE dark reapers. They seldom if ever let me down. even when they were 37 pts. each I still used them almost every time.

I'm not so sure about rangers/ pathfinders they are really spendy.

Any way thanks for the advice. I think I will use Karandras and SoaP. I probably will keep the WG as it's fun to see fw unable to kill infantry. I think i will also give my Farseer mind war so he can pick off crisis suits with his "mind bullets"

JSJ will eat Reapers.

I played a Game today and won mostly because of an unstoppable WG squad and Karandras and his scorpion escort showing how to properly levy a beat down. I also decided I need to buy more warp spiders because I took a 5 man squad who did just enough to be decent. 3-5 more and they would've been excellent.

BTW, forgive my ignorance but what's JSJ?

Your opponent has a very static force in the unmounted FWs and Broadside suits, but has lots of anti-tank. It looks like the railcannons were meant to kill transports and long range fire while the suits and FW took out the foot sloggers. You will want to disrupt this strategy with speed. Scorpions are good options, along with Kandras if you play in heavy terrain. Otherwise you wan't jetbikes, warp spiders and swooping hawks to move in quickly and tie up the battle suit teams while rangers cause pinning and pick on the FW from out of range.