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Last week played one of the Macragge battle additional scenarios with my brother. We played the one with the Tyranid Warriors and the Dreadnought.

 

On turn 5 onwards we get to some situations that we weren’t sure how to solve using RAW.

 

A)    What was left of my brother genstealers assaulted my dready, achieving a glancing hit (immobilized) and a penetrating hit (weapon destroyed). My brother chose to get rid of the DCCW, so the first discursion was how to resolve the dready counterattack. As per immobilized it get one attack less, but having the DCCW destroyed we didn’t know which strength (10 or 6) to use to resolve the 1 attack remaining… Finally we agreed to use S 6, as that is the strength for the dreadys without DCCW, but I am still not sure if that was the right interpretation.

B)     On my following turn, as the dready is a vehicle and vehicle do not get engaged in close combat, I declared my intention to fire at the genstealers … my brother said I couldn’t , because on the rules it’s stated that walkers fight at close combat as infantry… so if the infantry gets engaged in HtH so should be my dready. Finally we agreed on allow me to fire, but my brother was not 100% convinced…

C)    Once I was allowed to fire, the third discussion came about the heavy flamer. My brother stated that destroying the DCCW means destroying as well de flamer, because they are mounted on the same arm of the dready. My point was that what my brother got on the previous turn was a weapon destroyed, a not an “arm destroyed” so the flamer, as an independent weapon from the DCCW, should be still operative. This time I conceded in order to continue the game, and the heavy flamer didn’t shoot

D)    Then arose the last problem. After the assault cannon shoots were resolved, there were still 1 genstealer standing. We have agreed that we weren’t engaged. In addition my dready was immobilized, so it could not charge into HtH. But the figures were in base contact so… ¿should they fight that turn an HtH round or not? It seems to me that the rules were on the “no” side, but it was 100% clear, so we finally diced it out

 

What was the right solution for each discussion in your opinion?

 

A) You played it correctly. The DCCW is what makes the Dreadnought have a S10 instead of a S6. Once the wepon is destroyed the Dreadnought is simply S6.

B) You played incorrectly. Walkers fight in an assualt the same way as infantry (pg 71 of the rulebook) and are therefore locked in combat. That means they cannot be shot at, nor shoot at anyone while locked in combat.

C) The answer to this is unclear in the RAW since the terminology of a "built-in" weapon is not defined in the rules. It can be argued either way so your best bet is just to agree on which way you're going to play before the game begins.

D) You played incorrectly because (as mentioned in 'B') Walkers are locked/engaged in combat so they remain fighting until they kill the last enemy or the enemy destroys them.

 

Posted By yakface on 12/14/2006 3:20 AM

 

B) You played incorrectly. Walkers fight in an assualt the same way as infantry (pg 71 of the rulebook) and are therefore locked in combat. That means they cannot be shot at, nor shoot at anyone while locked in combat.

 

But Yakface... the rulebook also state that:

a) walkers are vehicles...

b) vehicles do not get locked in combat...

so...

why the rule on the page 71 should have precedence over this other rule?

Hey Santanero,

There are two answers to your question. One is on the bottom of page 71:

Results: Models that have assaulted a vehicle with no WS are not clased as locked, and therefor can be shot at during the shooting phase.

A Dread has a WS so it and the unit engaged with it remain locked at the end of the assault phase.

The other answer is on page 72:

Walkers in assault: Walkers fight in a assault in the same way as infantry.

A Dread is a walker so this special rule takes precedent over the general rule.

Your premisses are not complete.

a. Walkers are indeed vehicles, but a specialis to the generalis vehicle rules. (there are exceptions to how they function; see page 72)

b. Vehicles without a WS do not get locked in combat. (For instance Asdrubael Vect is a vehicle model - and not a walker - but since it has a WS it is locked in combat and may not move or fire')

Hope his answers your questions.

Cilithan out...

 

Posted By santanero on 12/14/2006 3:51 AM

But Yakface... the rulebook also state that:

a) walkers are vehicles...

b) vehicles do not get locked in combat...

so...

why the rule on the page 71 should have precedence over this other rule?

Because walkers are specific subset of vehicle with their own rules for fighting in close combats.

The rules say Infantry moves 6" but the rules for Jetbikes say they move 12". Why should Jetbikes get to move 12" then?

Because the specific rule overides the general. Its a basic tenant of rules.

 

 

Posted By Cilithan on 12/14/2006 4:21 AM

Hey Santanero,

There are two answers to your question. One is on the bottom of page 71:

Results: Models that have assaulted a vehicle with no WS are not clased as locked, and therefor can be shot at during the shooting phase.

A Dread has a WS so it and the unit engaged with it remain locked at the end of the assault phase.

The other answer is on page 72:

Walkers in assault: Walkers fight in a assault in the same way as infantry.

A Dread is a walker so this special rule takes precedent over the general rule.

Your premisses are not complete.

a. Walkers are indeed vehicles, but a specialis to the generalis vehicle rules. (there are exceptions to how they function; see page 72)

b. Vehicles without a WS do not get locked in combat. (For instance Asdrubael Vect is a vehicle model - and not a walker - but since it has a WS it is locked in combat and may not move or fire')

Hope his answers your questions.

Cilithan out...

 

I am almost sure that your first answer is not translated that way in my spanish copy of the rulebook, from memory it said a much more general "Models that have assaulted a vehicle are not clased as locked, and therefor can be shot at during the shooting phase"

Will check it tonigth at home...

Anyway I tend to take yakface words as true whatever he says.... just wanted to be sure... 

 

Santanero, just incase your not 100% certain, this debate came up over at Librarium.

One of the posters called GW's answer line up, and they stated that Walkers do stay locked in assualt. Check the rules at the end of the walker in assualt section. You'll notice it has a section about piling in, and how it does that as normal infantry. That means it remains in combat just like normal infantry does.

Dont take it for gospel check you heathen. Always take what people have said and then check it so next time you remeber it,.