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Can inducted Space Marines for Witchhunters or Daemonhunters use drop pods?

i don't see why not, the drop pod is a standard transport. they could use a rhino or a razorback, so why not a drop pod.

No. Drop pods are an army special rule. It is not a standard transport option for a squad.

And they shall know no fear is an army special rule too, right? Do inducted marines lose that too?

No, because ATSKNF is a Universal Special Rule on page 74 of the Warhammer 40,000 4th edition rulebook.

The same page in the Marine codex that says which squads may use drop pod assault also says that Marines have ATSKNF. You can't have one without the other it would appear. So it appears that either inducted marines can't drop pod and are lacking atsknf, or they have both special rules still.

Again, ATSKNF is a special rule for Space Marine units while Drop Pods are a special rule for a Space Marine army.

Can you provide a rules quote as to why there is a differentiation?

Do you see drop pods as an option in any of the unit entries? That's the difference. Space Marines are Space Marines and have ATSKNF. Only Space Marines in a Space Marine army have the option to take drop pods.

Posted By Ghaz on 12/17/2006 2:29 PM
Do you see drop pods as an option in any of the unit entries?

Do you see ATSKNF listed in any of the unit entries?

I see 'Space Marine' listed though.

And how do you know Space Marines have ATSKNF?

Because they're Space Marines, that's why.

Can you provide a rules quote that Space Marines have ATSKNF? Or are you just doing your typical knee-jerk reaction to something and sticking to it regardless of what the rules actually say?

Posted By Ghaz on 12/17/2006 3:48 PM
I see 'Space Marine' listed though.

... so...?

If you're going to claim they can use ATSKNF simply because they are Space Marines, how can you not also see that they can use Drop Pods simply by being in one of the listed squads?

Nowhere in the codex does it suggest that the pods are only available if the unit is being used in an all-Marine army. It gives a bit of fluff to explain that Marine armies often deploy by Drop Pod, but then goes on to point out that any Command Squad, Tactical Squad, etc can use a pod.

So, if Space Marines have ATSKNF simply because they are Space Marines, it follows that Tactical Squads can have Drop Pods simply because they are Tactical Squads.


You can't have it both ways.

Again, 'Space Marine' is in the unit entry. 'Drop Pod Assault' is not. A Tactical Squad inducted into an Inquisitorial army will have ATSKNF because they're Space Marines in their army list entry. The same Tactical Squad would not be able to use a drop pod because it is not in their army list entry.

ATSKNF - yes, it's in the army list entry.

Drop pods - no, it's not in the army list entry.

Posted By Ghaz on 12/17/2006 4:24 PM
Again, 'Space Marine' is in the unit entry. '

And again, ATSKNF is NOT in their unit entry.

I can sit here and repeat myself too: 'Tactical Squad' IS in their unit entry.

And Tactical Squads can use Drop Pods, because they are Tactical Squads.

Once again, you can't have it both ways, Ghaz.

on top of the rules justification for using drop pods, can you not see the background justification?
calling in support from the marines, who arrive in a cloud of fire and smoke bursting out of their drop pods to reinforce the inquisitorial forces.
it just feels right.
as well as being legal

Again, they receive ATSKNF because they're 'Space Marines' as per their army list entry. It doesn't matter if ATSKNF is in their army list or not, because 'Space Marines' is in their army list entry.

'Drop Pod Assault' is not in their army list entry. Drop pods are never once listed as a transport option for any Space Marine unit. It is only the 'Drop Pod Assault' rule that allows Space Marines to take drop pods, not because they're 'Space Marines'.

Space Marines have ATSKNF because they're 'Space Marines'. Space Marines can take drop pods because of the 'Drop Pod Assault' special rule. When they're inducted into an Inquisitorial army, they're still 'Space Marines' according to their army list entry and even though they're in a different army and still have that special rule. However they do not have the 'Drop Pod Assault' special rule because it is not in their army list entry.

Logic!?!?!? What is this drivel you bring into these forums!?!?!?

Posted By Ghaz on 12/17/2006 4:46 PM
'Drop Pod Assault' is not in their army list entry.

No, but 'Tactical Squad' IS.

Space Marines have ATSKNF because they're 'Space Marines'.

More precisely:
Space Marines have ATSKNF because the ATSKNF rule says that Space Marines have ATSKNF.

In the same way:
Tactical Squads have access to Drop Pods because the Drop Pods rule says that Tactical Squads have access to Drop Pods.


They don't stop being Tactical Squads when you take them in a DH force.

After another quick wander through the rules, I believe I see what Ghaz is getting at...

ATSKNF is a Universal Special Rule listed in the Rulebook. Even if Codex: Space Marine didn't mention it at all, it would still apply, since the USR specifically states that it applies to 'Space Marines'.

So, however you field them, if they are Space Marines, they have ATSKNF.

His contention then is that Drop Pod assault is an Army-specific rule, and therefore only applies to Space Marine armies.

That's the part that's fuzzy. The ][ books say to take the units exactly as they appear in their Codex... but don't specify that only the actual Army List entries apply. Just that they are only taken as listed in their codex.

Drop Pod assault IS a rule listed as applying to specific units in the Marine codex. So I see no reason it wouldn't apply in any other list. As I said before, a Tactical Squad is a Tactical squad, no matter what list you take it in.

Gah, this isn't my week. After all of these years, you'd think that I'd learn not to answer a rules question when my books are not handy. Anyway after getting home and checking my codex it seems like it may be legal, although you might have a problem explaining how you can use drop pods in a Daemonhunters army when you can't use them in a Space Marine army if you've taken any Grey Knights.

EDIT:  My point in the original post was that the drop pods are never mentioned in the unit entries.  For example, the rules for a Tactical Squad are on page 34 of the codex.  Those are the rules you would reference for an inducted Tactical Squad.  They never mention having a drop pod as an available transport option.  Only the 'Drop Pod Assault' rules on page 21 say anything about a Tactical Squad taking a drop pod and those are outside of the Tactical Squad's rules.  The rules apply to a Tactical Squad but they are not the rules for a Tactical Squad.  Does that make any more sense or am I rambling again?

Ghaz you are still brilliant!

but cant gaurd take drop pods too>???

Ummm...

...no.



Guard have Drop Troops, but that's hardly the same thing.

I've skimmed this arguement, but havent seen anyone actually quote the 'by the authority of the immortal emperor of mankind" section in WH.

To quote:

'ALL units are taken exactly as they appear in codex:space marine and codex imperial guard and may only use the options and upgrades listed there.

Empasis mine.

Options and upgrades. Drop pods are an option marines can use from their own book. Its pretty clear they can...

Actually, read the rule you quoted again:


If you use the unit exactly as it appears in Codex: Space Marines then it would not be able to use a drop pod because it's not in the unit's entry.

Incorrect. They use ALL the options and upgrades in THEIR book(its specifally says you dont get any options from the WH book).

Drop pod assualt IS an option for marines. AND they can use it.

Except it doesn't say that. It says that you take the units and use them exactly as printed in their codex.

And also once again, drop pods are not an option in the unit entries. It is an option given to the units by the 'Drop Pod Assault' special rule.