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I'm going to start a new Eldar army as my old models are all broken and badly painted (repainting them is impossible as they already have quite a few coats on them) and I've always really liked Harlequins. However I also want a Mech list and a competitive one too. So this is what I came up with:

Autarch @140pts: bike, lance, mandiblaster, fusion gun.

6 Harlies @182pts: Shadowseer, 2 fusion pistols.
6 Harlies @182pts: Shadowseer, 2 fusion pistols.
6 Harlies @182pts: Shadowseer, 2 fusion pistols.

3 Jetbikes @76pts: shurican.
3 Jetbikes @76pts: shurican.

Falcon @220pts: scatter laser, shurican, holo, soulstones, vectored engines.
Falcon @220pts: scatter laser, shurican, holo, soulstones, vectored engines.
Falcon @220pts: scatter laser, shurican, holo, soulstones, vectored engines.

How does that look ? The fusion pistols, mandiblaster and the shuricans were because I had 120pts left over, if you can think of something better to do with them I'd be grateful.

Are there kisses on the Harlies?

Greets
Schepp himself

Posted By Schepp himself on 12/21/2006 8:47 AM
Are there kisses on the Harlies?

Greets
Schepp himself

At those squad points, yes.

Since you said "really competitive" in the subject line, Meph, I'll read that as your intention and repeat what I've discovered about Eldar armies built from this codex:

Cookie cutter Eldar lists are now less competitive than balanced and/or diverse lists.

Unlike most other armies, Eldar units all have both extreme strengths and extreme weaknesses. When a list is made up of only a few kinds of units repeated several times, the whole army has the same extreme weaknesses, and that becomes a more important consideration than the strengths. Every time you meet the army that trumps your weakness, you are going to struggle.

Are you using the Falcons to transport the Harlies or are you fleeting across the field, if so then why not use the fire prism, its cheaper at 190 points decked out and it has the higher BS and the better gun IMO

Can you have a laser lance and a fusion gun? The laser lance is an Assault 1, Lance wpn. Are Lances considered one handed wpns?

Yes, it's listed under the one-handed weapons section in the autarch upgrades. You can have both.

The Falcons are transporting the Harlies. The reason being that the Falcon is a lot more flexible than the Prism. If the falcon is shaken then I can move it 36" to a position to unload the harlies. So it is still doing something useful, whereas the prism's usefulness is over if it is shaken or worse if its weapon is destroyed.

Flavius what would a balanced Mech list look like in your opinion ?

The exact mix isn't as important as taking a mix that will work together. For an assaulty mechanized army, if one elite slot is fire dragons or wraithguard, the other two should be two different types of assault elites. If all three elites are assault, you can get away with only two different types.

Then add one or two units of transported DA's (guardians can sub for the second one if points are tight) and a unit of bikes or vypers to protect your hatches.

If you use banshees, you want a bikeseer to cast doom.

IMO two falcons is optimal, the rest wave serpents. You want a minimum of four grav tanks, and five or six is better (but might only be possible at 1850). Grav tanks get shaken a lot, so cheaper weapons are better.

I would replace one squad of harlies with fire dragons. You will save some points. This army might lack anti-tank. The falcons will rarely get to shoot against cometant opponents, and the small bikes squadrons won't be enough to shield the autarch from massed bolter and plasma fire.

As for going all harlequins all the time, I'm not sure how I feel about that. Harlequins are mean in close combat, but like small units of Slaneshii demons they might be prone to "bouncing" off of enemy units after bad rending rolls. Once they charge, I've seen them get hurt bad against marines in close combat. They might also have big problems against LATD swarms of mutants, nurglings, plage bearers (a seriously underestimated unit IMHO), gaunts, bit mobs of conscripts, orks, and battle sisters (with 3+ inv. saves).

All in all, an interesting list that will win some games, but one mistake against a competant player and you're done.

I guess you will win more then 50% with this list. This comes at a high cost in regards of ingame-fun though. You will regularly have to do strange manuvers like have Guardians sit behind cover all game and your overall tactics will be very limited.

Id definately proxy this army for some games to find out if its really worth the effort.

Hmm, after reading all this excellent advice I had a good think about how I want to play Eldar. Result: mechanised assault. Ie, shooty tanks and assault orientated infantry. So I came up with this:

Farseer 160pts: bike, doom, fortune, SS. goes with the banshees

10 Banshees 187pts: exarch w/ mirrorswords, war shout. mirrorswords are better against a doomed unit than the executioner
Waveserpent 160pts: scatter laser, SS, vectored engines, star engines.
6 Harlies 162pts: kisses, shadowseer go in falcons
6 Harlies 162pts: kisses, shadowseer

3 jetibkes @124pts: shurican. +warlock w/ speer.
3 jetibkes @124pts: shurican. +warlock w/ speer.

Falcon 210pts: scatter laser, holo, SS, vectored engines, star engines.
Falcon 210pts: scatter laser, holo, SS, vectored engines, star engines.

I would have liked to have another wave serpent or falcon with another assault unit, but it simply doesn't fit. Also There is no assault infantry that isn't Elite, and I already have 3. I'd also have liked an Autarch for the +1, but that too wouldn't fit.

C&C ?

That should work really well at 1500.

I agree about the mirrorswords, especially since the harlies can handle high-toughness targets with their rending, leaving the rank-and-file troops for the banshees.

Id drop the Farseer for an Autarch with lance on bike. While the Farseer needs other units to kill something under certain conditions, the Autarch simply kills a lot of stuff. Synergy is good, but only if there is reasonable reward for your effort.
Now given that youve even got tanks in your list an Autarch should be the choice.

Id put a Bright Lance on the Serpent with the saved points.

The Warlocks finally make the Jetbikes a unit one cant ignore anymore. Looks fine.


How about exchanging another Falcon/Harleys for Serpent/Banshees plus a second Lance-Autarch? This way you get better vs hordes, as well as against big stuff.


Edit: Would look like this:

Autarch, bike, mandi, lance, fusiongun - 140 pts
Autarch, bike, mandi, lance, fusiongun - 140 pts

10 Banshees - 160 pts
Serpent, stone, vector, brightlance - 165 pts

10 Banshees - 160 pts
Serpent, stone, vector, brightlance - 165 pts

6 Hareys, Shadowseer, kisses - 162 pts
Falcon, stone, holo, vector, 2 shuricannons - 195 pts

3 Jetbikes
Warlock, Spear 114 pts

3 Jetbikes
Warlock, Spear 114 pts
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1495 pts

The thing is, banshees really need doom. Take this theorectical situation: my Banshees are going to assault a 8 strong marine unit. I assault him, making sure that only one of my models makes it into b2b contact and just clear out the kill zone. Then in my opponent's turn I need to wipe out the rest of the unit, I need to be 100% sure that the whole unit dies, otherwise my banshees will be shot to pieces. And without doom there is no way I'm going to manage that.

I also don't like your list for a few other reasons:
-No star engines. Star engines are very very useful as the guarantee you getting into the right position to unload your troops.
-Expensive weapons on the serpents, the serpents are going to be permanently shaken so I doubt they'll ever fire the lances.
-40% non-scoring. The only really good scoring unit in the list is the falcon, and you only have one. two falcons means that I have 2 200pt units that score and can grab objectives in the last turn with a 36" move.
-2 Autarchs is overkill. The cumulative +1 isn't worth it as in turn 3 everything arrives on a 2+ anyway with only one autarch. Their ability to kill things diminishes if you have two. 1 is enough, I'd like to have one, but as said before, doom is far better.

My 1750 list is similar:

Farseer 110pts: doom, bike.
Farseer 110pts: doom, bike.

10 Banshees 187pts: Exarch w/ mirrorswords, warshout.
Waveserpent 145pts: t-l shurican, SS, vectored engines, star engines.
10 Banshees 187pts: Exarch w/ mirrorswords, warshout.
Waveserpent 145pts: t-l shurican, SS, vectored engines, star engines.
6 Harlies 162pts: kisses, shadowseer.

3 jetbikes 76pts: shurican.
3 jetbikes 66pts

Falcon 210pts: scatter laser, holo, SS, vectored, star.
Prism 175pts: holo, star, SS.
Prism 175pts: holo, star, SS. I figured star engines would be better on prisms than vectored engines as they're not transporting anything and if they're immobilised they're going to die anyway. And star engines allow then to quickly grab objectives in the last turn.

C&C ?

Starengines are a good idea. Starting behind terrain, one will have to move quite far most of the time to ensure a second turn charge.


About the Farseer:

10 Banshees charge: 30 attacks x 2/3 hit x1/3 wound = 6,7 dead MEqs on the charge

Opponents turn: 20 attacks x 2/3 hit x 1/3 wound = 4,4 dead MEqs.

With these stats there is absolutely no need for doom. Against an 8 man marine unit with Powerfist, you should be able to kill at least one Marine with (Banshee) shooting, and then reliably clear a zone of at least 5 models. Next turn you will reliably kill the remaining two MEqs.

While the Farseer wont do much by himself, the Autarch can tackle complete LasPlas squads on his own. (And should the Banshees ever be in need of help, he can fill that role too of course.)



About the Bright Lances: I included them to up your chances versus mechanized armys, where the Banshees wont do much. Another plus is that the nonscoring Serpents cant be ignored once they drop their passengers.


Hope it helps.

Banshees don't hit on a 3+ against marines, they hit on a 4+. You also don't want to kill more than 3 marines or so in the initial charge otherwise the marines will fail their test because of all the modifiers you don't want to bring the marine unit to 5 models or less), so in your opponent's turn you need to reliably kill +-5 marines, and that isn't happening without doom.
Not only that, but you need the Fortune if your Banshees are going up against large GEq units like Orks, Nids, IG, etc where you could get bogged down for a few turns.

I don't need the Autarch to take on small units, thats what the harlies are for. You're completely right when you say I need an Autarch, I do, but dropping the farseer isn't the way to go.