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That is my reading of the book.

Of course, may be a FAQ subject really quickly. Couldn’t have Ork shooting _ too_ good, now, could we? :-)

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I see all of you stating the Mek Guns do not profit from the clan kulture because of the Gretchin keyword. To me that doesn't sound correct.

The text in the codex states: "Units comprised entirely of GRETCHIN cannot benefit fromany Clan Kultur." The Mek gun entry says: "This unit contains 1 Mek Gun and 6 grot krew". Now of course there are the keywords. But these state Gretchin (for the grots) as well as artillery (for the gun). Thus imho this is a mixed unit of Gretchin and arty. Not?

The GRETCHIN is keyword.

And all models have all keywords. Thus all models have gretchin, vehicle etc keywords. For there to be differing keywords there would have to be multiple lines for keywords.

Or are you claiming assault marines have only assault marine keyword and not adeptus astartes or imperium because only part of keywords would apply to unit? You don't pick up SOME keywords that apply for specific model. ALL keywords from the line applies to all models.

Let it go. No death skull mek guns(seriously if they did got they might just as well hard code them as death skulls as no other clan would ever use them)

How many from the original 30 boyz survived the first turn to be da jumped. A cocktail of grot shields/ prepped position/ eavy armour/Loot it makes the boyz really survivable. The t shirt save doesn't fair well against overwatch either. 4+/5+ could make a difference.

You weren't tempted to use the fight twice strat?

How many units did the da jumped unit of boyz manage to tie up in their assault phase? Or did all 30ish focus on the T5 guys (and fail to wipe them out?!?!?)

CaptainO wrote:
How many from the original 30 boyz survived the first turn to be da jumped. A cocktail of grot shields/ prepped position/ eavy armour/Loot it makes the boyz really survivable. The t shirt save doesn't fair well against overwatch either. 4+/5+ could make a difference.

You weren't tempted to use the fight twice strat?

How many units did the da jumped unit of boyz manage to tie up in their assault phase? Or did all 30ish focus on the T5 guys (and fail to wipe them out?!?!?)

They weren't da jumped but tellyported so 100%. Only unit of boyz that started on board were deathskulls that suffered some casualties and never got into combat before time ran out(it would have been to them to deal with the wracks that had tag teamed with wyches vs evil sun boys).

Overwatch is neutered by 6 to hit so that wasn't too much of a worry. Plus wracks didn't have guns either.

And for 3CP no. More dakka to keep up loota firepower up drained up fast enough.

On left evil sun mob charged straight into the wracks so only them. T5 is T5 and invulnerable save plus FNP as well so didn't want to spread them too much anyway(good thing too as I didn't even kill them and got my ass kicked in return by big pile of return attacks). They would have had also still incubis to deal with(though by all rights those should have died to the trike boss).

On right I charged 10 kabalites, they all died. Then archon+wyches charged from one side and wracks charged from other side. HUGE casualties ensured(5 attack per wych! Some darn strategem doubled drug bonus) so wanting to get rid of those ladies I concentrated on them wiping them out.

Grot shields would have been used to protect lootas as those were absolutely brutal. Boyz are just sacrificial pawns for the real meat. Cause as much damage and keep elves off the fire base. Seeing I had 3 units grot shield would be pretty useless anyway. I protect one unit, he would then blow the other units.

Its cool that you seem to be running such a shooty list. How many of the T5 guys were there?

When I deploy I only really have the 30 boyz out in the open with about 4 units of grots. The only other targets are two ard top battle wagons and bikes. Prepped position gives them 3+.

I was never too keen on psychic powers but with the new reserves rule da jump is pretty unique in allowing a unit of 30 boyz to charge T1. I'm just wondering if boyz in cc can efficiently take out those T5 dudes.

Been mulling over some ideas

Deff Dreads seem pretty decent now fall CC for the price?

4 attacks s10 -3 3dmg and 2 more attacks s9 -2 2dmg - 105pts
3 of them evil sons teleport them down for 2cp

thats some crumping, anyone tried it?

Also kans don't seem to bad either.... i'm feeling a dreadmob list coming

The deff dread bomb is a popular new tactic, as you can fit three of them in the teleporter for 2 cp.

Most do 1x klaw and 3x saw (for 3 klaw and 3 saw attacks) to save points.

If you are running deathskullz, can swap out saws for two KMB's, for some major ranged punch when they come in. (or just one).

Most run evil sunz for the +1 charge after teleporting.

Killa kans...oh poor killa kans. No kulture, no stratagems, have to be baby sat (warboss in larger mobs), nob banner if you want more effective CC.

They are now overshadowed by the rokkit buggy, which both outputs significantly more dakka, and has more T, more wounds, and better CC performance, moves faster, has access to kulture and strat...etc etc. Sure kans are cheaper, but they aren't really discounted with all the negatives they bring along now. You'd be better off taking mega nobz for around the same points.

Tellyporta is 2 cp

yea but kans are only 52 pts with a rokkit. I'm considering them over mek guns to fill up some cheap HS for a brigade.

Run em single with boyz maybe, they'll die but ye still gotta shoot at them and if they make it to CC they are pretty decent.

edit: till i checked and the hit on 5's, ugh

What are the odds that the faq or CA makes any of the mechanized gretchin (kanz, grot tanks, grot mega-tank) viable again?

Zero. There will not be any adjustments to orks due to the release schedule. CA was done before orks hit the store.

Coh Magnussen wrote:
What are the odds that the faq or CA makes any of the mechanized gretchin (kanz, grot tanks, grot mega-tank) viable again?

Faq will just clarify things and ca was well done before codex was even out so none.

Also last 2 are resin. Gw ain't buffing resin

yea but kans are only 52 pts with a rokkit. I'm considering them over mek guns to fill up some cheap HS for a brigade.

That's pretty expensive considering the platform you get it on. (Compare to rokkit buggy for 2 killa kans). Smasha guns will out damage a killa kan for less points by a wide margin.

I have 18 killa kans. I don't see any real use for them now. At least the mek guns are absurdly cheap so I don't care when they die. Even a deff dread is far better then two kans now.

I mean, they could change some of it around in the FAQ&errata that's due any day now. I doubt they will, but the only change they'd make is killa kans I'd wager. Those guys are hard to see the upside with right now, again it's super unlikely it would happen

heh, least in my local area people hate my kanz.
i imagine i'd get a lot of flaming if they got buffed even further.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
heh, least in my local area people hate my kanz.
i imagine i'd get a lot of flaming if they got buffed even further.

Yeah, my kanz have pretty much never not rocked.

I don't understand the hate for them. They are still a wall of tougness and wounds. Bring enough of them and most lists would have trouble dealing with it.

You could just have an army made of kanz and 'ard boyz. Just loot every kan that dies and enjoy your 4+ saves.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't understand the hate for them. They are still a wall of tougness and wounds. Bring enough of them and most lists would have trouble dealing with it.

They are not hard to deal when people prepare to one shot knights. Even heavy bolters worry them

11 rokkit kans (around 560pts) on average will kill 2 smasha guns and injure another. If they get 1st turn shooting.

The same amount of points in smasha guns kills around 10 killa kans (and the last one might run!)

Think it's hard to justify that kind of disparity in competitive play. I know the kans win if they get into CC, but that seems unlikely!

tneva82 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't understand the hate for them. They are still a wall of tougness and wounds. Bring enough of them and most lists would have trouble dealing with it.

They are not hard to deal when people prepare to one shot knights. Even heavy bolters worry them

I mean, as much as a heavy bolter worries like, a rhino. on average you gotta shoot 4 BS4+ heavy bolters at them to do a point of damage.

Also, I'm not sure if this is your tournament meta or not, I've noticed that the things that really worry knights are melee threats that can get past the 3++ "nope you don't get to kill me" maneuver. Most people seem to not be going for shoot the knight strategies, because they just kind of don't work in the one turn you need to kill the knight.

They go for a combination of chaff clearing and then firing a melee missile character/unit in to it to take it down in one turn. Our orky example would be the killa klawboss with fists of gork up, who can knock a knight down in a couple rounds, or a BA/SW smash character, a big unit of GSC aberrants, etc.

Where are you guys getting bombs from on the deffkoptas.

They were removed from the codex entry.

 DoomMouse wrote:
11 rokkit kans (around 560pts) on average will kill 2 smasha guns and injure another. If they get 1st turn shooting.

The same amount of points in smasha guns kills around 10 killa kans (and the last one might run!)

Think it's hard to justify that kind of disparity in competitive play. I know the kans win if they get into CC, but that seems unlikely!

You know maybe if you compared two different units and one had all its points in JUST shooting, and the other had points in shooting, melee, and the ability to do stuff like move around the battlefield, I think you'd probably find that in almost all cases the unit that JUST SHOOTS is going to win hands down in a comparison of just shooting.

its kind of like "oh my god equal points of Catachan Basilisks does way more damage vs tanks in shooting than a knight warden does, why are people complaining about how powerful a single knight is?"

 TedNugent wrote:
Where are you guys getting bombs from on the deffkoptas.

They were removed from the codex entry.

you can still use index weapon options.

well obviously if you only ran kanz they'd suck, theyre the other prong of a dual threat.
If you run 6 kanz AND other deadly vehicles like a 'naut or dread trio, thats a lot of armor to bust through. Any of them reaching melee is devastating and the kanz/nauts can dakka pretty good too.

Thats pretty much been how all my games been going. Kanz die right off, 3 dreads/naut is unscathed or my naut gets hammered hard and the kanz/dreads make it to melee with some paint chips.
~950pts for all that.

You could probably put a death skullz KFF big mek on a bike with the kans, with follow me lads, and a fixer upper, and throw out 2d3 (d3 per unit) heals a round, with the field, and warboss buff to prevent loss of models due to moral. (fix it up relic is different keywords then biker mekanic)

Why was this thread created by the OP if he didn't plan on keeping the first post updated? This thing is useless to someone just coming on board. I don't have time nor inclination to comb though this whole thread just to mine out the gems.

OP you suck.

 matphat wrote:
Why was this thread created by the OP if he didn't plan on keeping the first post updated? This thing is useless to someone just coming on board. I don't have time nor inclination to comb though this whole thread just to mine out the gems.

OP you suck.

Well, do you want to work with us to make a more useful tactica? Seems like most of them have like a "unviable, situational, good, auto-include" ranking for units, relics, stratagems, subfactions and traits.

There's no reason we can't start that discussion collectively and then either make a new OP or try to contact this threads OP.

I think we need some tourney info to back up claims, but there's probably relatively little controversy for most stuff at this point.

Why was this thread created by the OP if he didn't plan on keeping the first post updated? This thing is useless to someone just coming on board. I don't have time nor inclination to comb though this whole thread just to mine out the gems.

OP you suck.

OP openly admits

now my own participation is spotty on dakkadakka. ill admit it. but while im active ill go ahead and get the thread started.

So start a more updated thread yourself

Also, I really feel like we should at least wait for the errata before we start judging all the units. Both for potential misprints etc and also just for allowing some time for play testing..