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By my understanding, if the warlord with OLD GRUDGES is in a transport, then no one gets the buff, not even the transport it is in?

As with nearly all special rules like auras, the source of the buff has to be physically on the board for the special rule to be active. So not transported.

I'm unsere if I understand the "Agent of the Imperium" rule correctly. If my whole army is Imperial Guard and I include an Inquisitor, can I choose a Warlord trait from the Inqisition list for him/her or can those only be chosen when I have a pure Inquisition detachment?

Hi guys, a friend recently dug up about 1500 points worth of old guardsmen, and I am trying to work it into a workable army. I hear Guard aren't in the best place codex-wise at the moment but I'd still like to get something playable out of them to use in my games at home.

Here's what he has, as best as I can tell. Some of these minis are old!

Infantry Squad x50-60, unsure on the exact amount.
Heavy Weapons Squad x3
Ratlings x10
Tank Commander in Leman Russ x1
Basilisk x1
Chimera x1
Colour Sergeant Kell x1
Tech-Priest Enginseer x1
Wyrdvane Psykers x4
Command Squad x4
Company Commander x2
Commissar x1
Lord Commissar x1
Catachan Snipers x3

Any suggestions for a reasonable 1000 point list I can make out of those? Thanks!

The Infantry Squads, Company Commanders, and Tank Commander would be your priority pick, followed by the Basilisk. Even if your Infantry Squads were equipped with Plasmas or Meltas, I don't think those alone will take you to 1000 points. Throw in whatever else you want on top; I'd prioritize the Heavy Weapons Squads (small boost of firepower) and the Wyrdvane Psykers (mortal wounds) but given where we're at right now, there really isn't too much optimizing you can do with what you have.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
I'm unsere if I understand the "Agent of the Imperium" rule correctly. If my whole army is Imperial Guard and I include an Inquisitor, can I choose a Warlord trait from the Inqisition list for him/her or can those only be chosen when I have a pure Inquisition detachment?

anyone can help me with this question?

 Pyroalchi wrote:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
I'm unsere if I understand the "Agent of the Imperium" rule correctly. If my whole army is Imperial Guard and I include an Inquisitor, can I choose a Warlord trait from the Inqisition list for him/her or can those only be chosen when I have a pure Inquisition detachment?

anyone can help me with this question?

You can use the Arbiter of the Emperor's Will Stratagem to give one inquisitor a warlord trait and a relic. I guess you could make him your warlord, but that would mean you can't take a second tank ace or any relics, so I don't think its worth it.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/lBLlqvrttJVgyfhC.pdf

So Guard now auto wound on '6' to hit, Infantry Squads get free upgrades and Tank Commanders can order all vehicles.

Some interesting changes.

So it looks like GW noticed what I did during my last Crusade: fully upgrading Infantry Squads for free push their firepower just over the edge to being useful.

Overall? I...don't know what to think. I'm happy that Guard are more viable, but the changes are so drastic that I feel this may hurt the game overall.

(Note, I'm also including the changes to some of the other factions and Special rules for that as well)

We also get an explicit exception to the Indirect Fire nerf as well, which...idk how I feel about that. It's good, but IIRC Crouching Basilisk Hidden Mortars wasn't particularly interesting to play as or against in 8e. Not sure that us being the best at it in 9e is any better.

I do wish they gave infantry a bit more staying power (perhaps reintroducing the cover save order... I want to say it was Take Cover, but that might be the strategem and I can't be bothered to look it up atm). But I look forward to clicking ignore when battlescribe warns me I'm above the points limit lol

So, can anyone do some mathhammering on the new autowound on 6's rule?

The way I see it, it means that 1/6th of your shots will skip the 1/3 chance to wound part and go straight to armour saves against marines.

A squad of FRFSRF guardsmen against SMs:
37 shots on 12", half hit
18 shots mean 3 sixes, that's 3 wounds.
Remaining 15 need 5+ to wound so that's another 5 wounds.

8 wounds on a 3+ save mean about 3 damage on the squad, so one dead marine.

Marines shoot back:
36 bolter shots, 24 hits.
16 wounds 1/3 of them saved.
10 dead guardsmen.

You probably wont be shooting marines with guardsmen most of the time and if you do it will be more than one squad, but the math is still very much against us.

Still figuring out how exactly I feel about these changes. Initial impression?

"Wow, we're so bad GW decided we could get auto wounds on 6 to hit across the army, free upgrades on infantry squads, and ignore the indirect penalties everyone else gets. Thats not good"

Does it buff damage output? Absolutely. But does it help us win games? No, I dont think it does. None of our actual issues have been fixed. We still die quickly, we still dont have a great way to hold an objective, and we still dont have a great answer to fast enemy melee threats.

Im gonna play a game or two and see how it affects the army with my various regiments I have. I think the issue is going to be that even if this turns out to be a massive firepower buff for us, our only real strategy will be to table the opponent as fast as possible then grab objectives at the end.

Id love to be proven wrong. I actually really hope I am, but I dont see it. Some units are going to see more use maybe but I dont see IG sweeping the next tourney.

I am curious to see a Cadian infantry gunline now given all the free stuff you get.

 DoctorDanny wrote:
So, can anyone do some mathhammering on the new autowound on 6's rule?

The way I see it, it means that 1/6th of your shots will skip the 1/3 chance to wound part and go straight to armour saves against marines.

A squad of FRFSRF guardsmen against SMs:
37 shots on 12", half hit
18 shots mean 3 sixes, that's 3 wounds.
Remaining 15 need 5+ to wound so that's another 5 wounds.

8 wounds on a 3+ save mean about 3 damage on the squad, so one dead marine.

Marines shoot back:
36 bolter shots, 24 hits.
16 wounds 1/3 of them saved.
10 dead guardsmen.

You probably wont be shooting marines with guardsmen most of the time and if you do it will be more than one squad, but the math is still very much against us.

36 shots is 6 auto-wounds and 12 hits.
10 wounds total.
3 damage or so dealt to MEQs.

Yeah. Regretting having my travel case with my army packed when I moved. Now it's buried in storage and it'll be at least a month before I can try out a game.

Also, do we know how "10 models, all upgrades free" is going to impact Heavy Weapon Teams? I could see this being a soft-removal of the team as a separate 2w model (which would fix the whole "absurdly easy to wipe with D2 weapons" issue).

I was definitly amused as all my squads just out of optical preference have special weapons, voxes and sometimes heavy weapons and Plasmapistols on the sergants. Free stuff I guess...

Doing some math since my modeling tools are in storage, but it seems like Cadian is going to be the best regiment, for Infantry Squads specifically, to maximize re-rolls to fish for 6's.

Any other regiments that might see heightened play?

Maxzero wrote:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/lBLlqvrttJVgyfhC.pdf

There’s basically only 2 ways to play Guard competitively now:

1) Spam Infantry Squads and get the most out of free upgrades. 18 plasma guns, 18 plasma pistols, 18 power swords, 18 voxes, and 18 lascannons. You end up with about 540 points of free upgrades, after factoring in the increased point cost.
2) Spam Militarum Tempestus Scions as a counter to SM, CSM, and Sisters ignoring AP. As well as benefiting from the auto-wounding 6’s. Lambdan Lions is now the best sub-faction as it completely negates the benefits of Armour of Contempt.

Lambdan Lion's Warlord trait allows to reroll 1s to hit if within 6" of the warlord.

M.

Jarms48 wrote:

Maxzero wrote:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/lBLlqvrttJVgyfhC.pdf

There’s basically only 2 ways to play Guard competitively now:

1) Spam Infantry Squads and get the most out of free upgrades. 18 plasma guns, 18 plasma pistols, 18 power swords, 18 voxes, and 18 lascannons. You end up with about 540 points of free upgrades, after factoring in the increased point cost.
2) Spam Militarum Tempestus Scions as a counter to SM, CSM, and Sisters ignoring AP. As well as benefiting from the auto-wounding 6’s. Lambdan Lions is now the best sub-faction as it completely negates the benefits of Armour of Contempt.

Tanks get the bonus too, don't forget.

Full Payload Manticores, and Battlecannon or Demolisher Russes each get at least 1 auto wound on average. Slight boost, but still.

Also don't forget about the Punisher, the Dakka tank. 40 S5 ap 0 D1 with rerolling ones, plus 9 Heavy Bolter shots will certainly put out a lot of auto wounds.

Has there been official word from GW regarding whether or not the emperor applies to militarum tempestus? RAW it shouldn't because they don't have the <regiment> keyword (which is why we're able to take them still in the first place). But I could see that being an accidental oversight (albeit a pretty daft one that should have been caught during review).

DeadliestIdiot wrote:
Has there been official word from GW regarding whether or not the emperor applies to militarum tempestus? RAW it shouldn't because they don't have the <regiment> keyword (which is why we're able to take them still in the first place). But I could see that being an accidental oversight (albeit a pretty daft one that should have been caught during review).

This is incorrect, Scions have Militarum Tempestus as their Regiment keyword. Otherwise you can’t order them.

Jarms48 wrote:


This is incorrect, Scions have Militarum Tempestus as their Regiment keyword. Otherwise you can’t order them.

Are you allowed to order them with a company commander? I've always used a tempestor prime for that (not that it would make a difference to me as I use a tempestus drop troops detachment so the tempestor prime drops in with them).

Edit:
For those reading along, wahapedia confirms the militarum tempestus counts as its <regiment>
https://wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/astra-militarum/#REGIMENT-

Also, based on my reading of voice of command, orders from militarum tempestus units have to come from a unit that is also militarum tempestus, so I've been playing it correctly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So does including militarum tempestus in your army alongside <regiment> units prevent hammer of the emperor from applying?

Reading the rules on militarum tempestus, it just says that it doesn't prevent the nontempestus units from getting regimental doctrines, but hammer of the emperor is a detachment ability. Thoughts?

Yes, taking Scions and Guard now break Hammer of the Emperor. Hammer of the Emperor is an Army Ability, not a Detachment Ability. Just like Marines have Combat Doctrines as a pure army.

The dataslate lists it as a detachment ability (that cares about the whole army lol)... either way, thanks for the help in parsing out the rules

Hammer of the Emperor does not save us, especially when facing the Armour of Contempt change.

I played against two different marine lists this weekend and lost both games, the first was closer but the second was a complete whitewash.

Whilst the lasguns got me a couple extra wounds in both games, it paled in comparison to the loss in effective firepower due to the reduction in penetration for heavier weapons.

 Otto Weston wrote:
Hammer of the Emperor does not save us, especially when facing the Armour of Contempt change.

Completely agree. I wouldn't have minded if it was just AP-1 counts as AP0. Then at least higher AP weapons would have remained good against marines.

Who cares about armor saves? It's Auto-wounding. Taurox Primes now do more damage than LRs.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Who cares about armor saves? It's Auto-wounding. Taurox Primes now do more damage than LRs.

A Taurox Prime, before this dataslate, did the following damage at full wounds to a squad of 5 MEQ:

Autocannons: 1.78
Heavy Stubber: .33
Hot Shot Volleygun: 1.78
Storm Bolter: .22, .44 in Rapid Fire range
Battle Cannon: 1.30
Gatling Cannon: 2.22
Missile Launcher, Krak: 1.36

Not doing Frag because its the Gatling Cannon but worse. After the datalsate, this changes to:

Autocannons: 1.32
Heavy Stubber: .42
Hot Shot Volleygun: 1.67
Storm Bolter: .28, .56 in Rapid Fire range
Battle Cannon: .97
Gatling Cannon: 2.78
Missile Launcher, Krak: 1.07

What do these numbers mean?

Gatling improved by .56 damage per model.
Stubbers and Bolters improved by .03 per shot, for anywhere from .06 to .12 improvement overall.

However, the Volleyguns and Autocannons got worse by .11 and .46 respectively.

So, if you're going MEQ hunting, you'd want to take Volleyguns and the Gatling Cannon. If you close to 24", you used to do 4 damage, enough to kill two MEQ.
Now, you do 4.45 damage, enough to kill two MEQ, and maybe wound another. 11.25% improvement.