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Long time lurker, occaisonal poster in the past. I'm moving from the darkness of Chaos to the grace of the Eldar, but I'm really not used to them. Looking to build a 2,000 point army I can break down into smaller values when needed. Any help would be greatly appreciated, because I'm in waaaay over my head with these guys.

HQ
Farseer with Singing Spear, Doom, Fortune and Spirit Stones (to run with Harlies) - 133
Autarch with Mandiblasters and Powerweapon (rides with Scorpions, primarily for Master Strategist) - 90

Elites
Harlequin Troupe (6) with 5 Harlie Kisses, 2 Fusion Pistols, Troupe Master and a Shadowseer - 198
Striking Scorpions (6) with Exarch with Scorp Claw and Stalker - 128
Scorpions mounted in Waveserpent with Twin-linked Bright Lances, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon and Vectored Engines (transport and anti-tank) - 175

Troops
Two units of Dire Avengers (10) with Exarch with Twin Shuri Catapaults, Defend and Bladestorm (objective holders) - 334 (167 each)
One mounted in Waveserpent identical to above - 175
Pathfinders (6) - 144

Fast Attack
Vyper (1) with Eldar Missile Launcher and Spirit Stones (troubleshooter, firemagnet. They look overpriced and frail but I really like the models)

Heavy Support
Two identical Falcons with Star Cannon, Shuri Cannon, Holo Field and Spirit Stones (seems like a natural choice for Eldar, yes? For transport of any 6 strong squads, in particular the Scorpions and sometimes Rangers) - 390 (195 each)
Warwalkers (3), Spirit Stones, two with 2x Scatterlaser, 1 with 2x Star Cannon (That's like, 20 shots a turn, right?) - 215

Total - 2057
Model Count - 40
Vehcile Count - 8

So what can I afford to lose? The Vyper looks like the natural choice, which is a shame, because it could be useful. Do I lack anti-vehicle power a bit too much?

Yeah, probably to lose the vyper. The army does lack antitank power, but the vyper isn't going to be able to make any difference. If you only have a few antitank weapons, they should be the ones that hit most of the time and that break the usual penetration rules--fusion guns/pistols, haywire grenades, singing spears--rather than the ones that miss half the time and have to come up with 5s and 6s on penetration rolls--brightlances, missile launchers. Save your few antitank weapons for the odd monolith or land raider. Vehicles with side armor of 11-12 can be taken out easily by falcons.

The farseer can't get into a falcon with the harlequins because the unit will exceed the transport capacity. Pay attention to whether your harlies ever actually shoot their fusion pistols (I suspect they won't) and you can maybe save a few points by taking them off.

Otherwise, it looks like fun to me.

Thanks. Harlies are meant to be on foot with the Farseer with them for mutual protection. You're probably right about the Fusion Pistols but I have a feeling they'll stick them in the box set when it comes out. If I ditch them and the Vyper, I got 38 points I need to stick somewhere.

From my (albeit limited) experience with 4th edition Scorpions, they are just not worth it. I've been running my 8 strong, but they just don't fulfill the role needed. They get bogged down in assault and lose, or they end up getting shot to pieces. I'm really leaning towards Banshees or Harlequins, but need the models for both.

Be careful with 175 point transports. That is a lot of extra bodies you could be fielding. Plus, the tanks have your main anti armor weapons. They will most likely be targetted first (at least I would be shooting at them).

I agree about the Vypers. But, I run 1-3 in my list b/c they look cool; kudos for you to try and get them to work.

HQ: Run the Harlies on their own, there's no need to include the Farseer with them. Also, the Veil Of Tears could become useless with an independent, non-harlie character in the unit. Consider dropping Doom (which is a bland power) for Guide.

Elites: Max your Harlie unit out @ 10. Max your SS unit out @ 10 including an exarch. SS are good in a full unit and have a better armor save and weapons then Banshees but cannot fleet, so keep the Wave Serpent transport. Lose the Vectored Engines and Spirit Stones and take Star Engines - the Wave Serpent should be getting the SS into assault distance ASAP.

Troops: Perhaps tunedown the Wave Serpent as above, not sure.

FA: Lose the Vypers. Take a unit of Hawks or maybe Spears.

Heavy: Lose the Falcons. Seriously, take Prisms instead. They already have a better weapon and a higher BS than a Falcon before weapons additions. Plus, the more Prisms you have the more you can link their fire together.

Doom is awesome for harlies...especially vs. models/units whose T is higher than the harlies S3. (S4 on the charge)

Doom is even better if you are using banshees. Vs. Marines you go from wounding 33& of the time to 55% of the time. That is a big swing.

If you are going to have 2 assault elements I would consider running 2 farseers.. or a more CC oriented autarch. I am not sure how VOT works when the unit is joined by an IC. That should be (as ancientsociety pointed out) considered.

ender502

Posted By Sarigar on 12/26/2006 4:43 AM
From my (albeit limited) experience with 4th edition Scorpions, they are just not worth it. I've been running my 8 strong, but they just don't fulfill the role needed. They get bogged down in assault and lose, or they end up getting shot to pieces. I'm really leaning towards Banshees or Harlequins, but need the models for both.

Be careful with 175 point transports. That is a lot of extra bodies you could be fielding. Plus, the tanks have your main anti armor weapons. They will most likely be targetted first (at least I would be shooting at them).

I agree about the Vypers. But, I run 1-3 in my list b/c they look cool; kudos for you to try and get them to work.

What have you been throwing your Scorps at? And how have you been getting them there? I'm still tossing up whether they'll be mounted in a Serpent or given Shadowstrike for Infiltrate.

I also want the Serpents because they'll draw fire but be moderately hard to take down. I also think I lack too much mobility without them.

Posted By ancientsociety on 12/26/2006 8:37 AM
HQ: Run the Harlies on their own, there's no need to include the Farseer with them. Also, the Veil Of Tears could become useless with an independent, non-harlie character in the unit. Consider dropping Doom (which is a bland power) for Guide.

Elites: Max your Harlie unit out @ 10. Max your SS unit out @ 10 including an exarch. SS are good in a full unit and have a better armor save and weapons then Banshees but cannot fleet, so keep the Wave Serpent transport. Lose the Vectored Engines and Spirit Stones and take Star Engines - the Wave Serpent should be getting the SS into assault distance ASAP.

Troops: Perhaps tunedown the Wave Serpent as above, not sure.

FA: Lose the Vypers. Take a unit of Hawks or maybe Spears.

Heavy: Lose the Falcons. Seriously, take Prisms instead. They already have a better weapon and a higher BS than a Falcon before weapons additions. Plus, the more Prisms you have the more you can link their fire together.

VoT works fine with an IC in the unit. It's just a psychic power like Enhance. No reason for it to stop working and it gives the Seer a little more protection.

If you suggest taking Guide instead of Doom, then Fortune would also probably be useless because the best place to put the Seer would be with the Warwalkers, no? If not with the Harlies, where do you think he should go?

I also think I need the Falcon for transport versatility, though I'm having trouble reconciling squad sizes with IC placement and what can fit where.

Posted By ender502 on 12/26/2006 5:53 PM

Doom is awesome for harlies...especially vs. models/units whose T is higher than the harlies S3. (S4 on the charge)

Doom is even better if you are using banshees. Vs. Marines you go from wounding 33& of the time to 55% of the time. That is a big swing.

If you are going to have 2 assault elements I would consider running 2 farseers.. or a more CC oriented autarch. I am not sure how VOT works when the unit is joined by an IC. That should be (as ancientsociety pointed out) considered.

ender502

I don't wanna use Banshees. I think they're kinda ugly and I've already got Scorps on order anyway. I don't think most of the opponents I'll be facing with this list will be marines, anyway, so they should be fine.

What sort of Autarch would you suggest? I'll be using the Yriel model as a base, which rules out a Banshee Mask (well, not entirely, if I'm all like 'Yeah, his cyber-eye warps reality and crap.'. I definitely want both a Seer and an Autarch, coz I wanna use the shiney new HQ choice.

Okay, some updates. Boosted my assault elements as ancientsociety suggested.

HQ
Farseer with Singing Spear, Doom, Fortune and Spirit Stones (to run with Harlies) - 133
Autarch with Mandiblasters and Powerweapon (rides with Scorpions, primarily for Master Strategist but also packs extra CC punch) - 90

Elites
Harlequin Troupe (7) with 7 Harlie Kisses,Troupe Master and a Shadowseer - 200
Striking Scorpions (10) with Exarch with Scorp Claw - 187
Scorpions mounted in Waveserpent with Twin-linked Bright Lances, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon and Vectored Engines (transport and anti-tank) - 175

Troops
Two units of Dire Avengers (7) with Exarch with Twin Shuri Catapaults, Defend and Bladestorm (objective holders) - 286 (143 each)
One mounted in Waveserpent identical to above - 175
Pathfinders (6) - 144

Fast Attack
Nothing, and I'm wondering if I should have something from there, but nothing looks good.

Heavy Support
Two identical Falcons with Star Cannon, Shuri Cannon, Holo Field and Spirit Stones - 390 (195 each)
Warwalkers (3), Spirit Stones, two with 2x Scatterlaser, 1 with 2x Star Cannon (That's like, 20 shots a turn, right?) - 215

Total - 1995
Model Count - 41
Vehcile Count - 7

I'm currently torn on the Falcons. Prims will fit and save me 70 points (as I'm not likely to take the shuriken cannons with them and don't have to pay for a second weapon) which I can boost my DAs or Harlies with. I'm not making use of the Falcon's transport ability at present, too. They're just as tough and mobile. What do people think?