Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was reading over the many lists on the forum, and realized Guard are really one of the most diverse armies out there -- indeed, they can be made to several extremes.

I tried to formulate the two most game-effective lists to illustrate two of these extreme approaches.  The first:

The 47th Mailed Fist Regiment -- Iron Heel Detatchment
DOCTRINES: Iron Discipline, Close Order Drill, Veterans, Rough Riders

HQ
Officer w/ID, troopers w/autocannon (60)

ELITES

7 Veterans, one Veteran Sergeant, 3 Plasma Guns (99)
     Chimera with Extra Armor, Multilaser, Heavy Bolter (90)

TROOPS

Officer w/ID (45), troopers w/autocannon (15)
    Lascannon Squad (95)
    Lascannon Squad (95)

AF Squad: Heavy Bolter, Flamer, VetSgt (82)
    Chimera with Extra Armor, Multilaser, Heavy Bolter (90)

HEAVY
    Leman Russ MBT with Extra Armor, Hull and Sponson Heavy Bolters (160)
    Leman Russ MBT with Extra Armor, Hull and Sponson Heavy Bolters (160)

That shows exactly how much armor and firepower one can fit into a Guard list, albiet at the cost of being slow, slow, slow.  Still facing two Chimeras and two Russes at one thousand points is nothing to sneeze at.  The army and platoon HQs are armed with autocannon simply to add to the fire output of the army, but still make them slightly less juicy targets than the las/plas squads.  I see this army sitting back and shooting til turn 3 or 4, then making a rush on objectives.

311th Ozomi Wardogs -- The Best of the Best, SIR...
DOCTRINES: Iron Discipline, Veterans, Hardened Fighters, Camelioline, Light Infantry

HQ (86)
Officer w/ID, squad with meltagun, Vet. Standard Bearer, Camelioline, Light Infantry (86)

ELITES (221)

8 Veterans: 3 Plasma Guns, Camelioline (109)

8 Veterans: 3 Flamers, Shotguns, Hardened Fighters, Camelioline (112)

TROOPS (699)

Officer w/ID, squad with Lascannon, Camelioline (80)
    Lascannon/Plasma Infantry Squad, Camelioline (105)
    Lascannon/Plasma Infantry Squad, Camelioline (105)
    Autocannon/Grenade Infantry Squad, Light Infantry, Crackshots, Camelioline (113)
   
Officer w/ID, squad with x2 Flamers, Light Infantry, Camelioline (73)
    Autocannon/Grenade Infantry Squad, Light Infantry, Crackshots, Camelioline (113)
    Heavy Bolter/Meltagun Infantry Squad, Light Infantry, Crackshots, Camelioline (110)

This army is the exact opposite approach: no big, clanking vehicles for your opponent to target, but instead a whole lot of infantry with annoyingly invulnerable saves and nasty weaponry.  Includes one counterassault element (the second Vet squad) just in case something needs to be held up, but mostly counts on rapidfiring crackshot lasguns, autocannon, etc to drown the enemy in bullet dice, while light infantry gives them flexible deployment and ability to get to objectives.

Mostly an intellectual excercize, but do the armies seem effective?  Characterful?  What do the esteemed forum veterans think?

-Adso

No, not effective, characterful, perhaps...mmmm lets say yes.  first of all if your vets are counter assault why give them special wpns, if they are truly counter assaulting then the enemy will probably be in CC already not allowing you to fire. I would at least give the vet sgt a power fist, thats where the real damage will come from and he cant be targeted which is good.

Also your numbers are wrong its 85 not 95 for a lascannon squad, also, you only have 6 units in your first list, not a good sign at all.

10 is a little better in the second one. Id say the second list is a little better. The first one will get destroyed rather quickly.

Only the second unit of veterans, in the second list, is counter-assault. I toyed with the idea of a powerfist but couldn't quite find the points for it.

Only 6 scoring units in the first list, but the opponent's fire is divided between four tanks and five units of infantry -- more targets than it appears. The difficulty of killing the harder targets effectively at a low value like 1,000 pts is what I think could make the first list a winner. The Lascannon squads are meant to be las/plas, which are 95...my mistype there. The idea is that whatever they don't hit can hit back hard...in total, there are 9 heavy bolters, 2 multilasers, 2 lascannons, 2 autocannons, 2 battlecannons, and 4 plasmaguns staring down their throats.

With access to Iron Discipline and with two officers to two squads, the low number of infantrymen in the first list should be alright, unless I happen across an army with two units of Swooping Hawks, or a four-heavy-bolter-Devastator Squad.

In the second list, the counter assault vets are also somewhat multi role...if I see, say, a Marine Assault Squad hopping towards my lines, they can move to interdict...hopefully do some damage with their special weapons and a barrage of shotgun shells, then assault. Same goes for a too-intact mob of Orks...hold them out of combat with my more vulnerable squads. Should they, perhaps, be armed with pistols and weapons rather than shotguns, though?

Other comments?

Well actually you transport do not count as scoring units so the enemy fire will likely be directed at two tanks the LR and remember it only takes ONE shot to take out a tank to not much will be needed considering most players will need a 3 to hit.

I picture the first list getting ripped apart quickly but anyways let us know how it goes. The points for the first can come from the fact that you miscalculated the lascanon prixes.

List number one is fine. I am guessing you are having a slow day at work, BrotherAdso?

It looks like you made the second list just to make the first list look even better - you even made sure to add crap weapons (grenade launchers) and crap doctrines (sharp shooters) to complement schizophrenic weapons choices. (heavy bolter/melta gun) All it's missing is a big squad of Ogryns and some mortar squads as a punchline. I reccomend taking it only if there is a twelve-year old child at your club who is having trouble winning and needs cheering up. ("Don't worry Billy - my guys can't hurt power armour! Now, were you shooting at me with squad Silver or squad Gray?") If your definition of "characterful" is "suboptimal with comic potential" then, yeah, it is.