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I'm sure this has been covered at some point but I am unsure as to whether fear of the darkness affects Daemons. The reason I am unsure is the sentence in the parenthases which states that units that never fall back are immune to this power. Daemons are not fearless but they never fall back.

So is this a case of poor wording or did GW add this sentence specifically to prevent you from killing large numbers of daemons?  

I believe the power states they make a morale test as if they have taken 25% casaulties. I believe they would have to take the test.

Daemons are not fearless, so are not immunce to leadership/morale tests. The codex: CSM states that if a unit of daemons is called upon to make a Morale test, they take an instability test instead. If I remember correctly, FoTD forces Morale tests on its victims, which should lead to an instability test for affected daemonic units.

Sal.

Now the next question is do they take that Instability Test at the -2 modifier for FOTD?

FOTD causes a Morale check at -2, however Instability tests are taken whenver a Morale check should be taken instead. Since Instability is not a Morale check, I figure that they're not affected by the negative modifier.

Also, Daemons can break and run from things like Tank Shock (not a Morale test) or the Deceve ability.

Posted By spmusubi on 01/04/2007 7:21 AM
Now the next question is do they take that Instability Test at the -2 modifier for FOTD?

FOTD causes a Morale check at -2, however Instability tests are taken whenver a Morale check should be taken instead. Since Instability is not a Morale check, I figure that they're not affected by the negative modifier.

I am not so sure about that. If the unit has to take a morale test at -2 it may very well have to apply that modifier to the instability test. It is "performed exactly like a morale check"...but still, thats a sticky one right there. I think I would have to side with the least advantageous path when determining this one.

I've played it as impacting demons for that reason. They don't run but have to take an instability test with any inherent modifiers.

Good job Hellfury!

- Greenie

That's true and makes sense. Also, now that I think about it, Instability tests also suffer from the -1 Outnumbered Penalties and the ilk from close combat, which are Morale check modifiers.

So Daemons love to fight all day, but spontaneously combust when a Librarian goes "boogah boogah boogah" at them or run away when a Tank runs them over.

But the FoD also state that it does not affect models that never falls back.

Instability kills daemons when they fail it, but that dosen't count as fall back.

Also, I've never had a tank shock on daemons, but since normally tank shock causes a moral check, dosen't it just cause another instability check to the daemons and not force them to fall back?

Tank Shock causes Morale tests, I don't know why people are stating otherwise (see p70 of the Rulebook, last paragraph under Tank Shock).

So the only thing that makes a Daemon unit fall back is the Deceive ability, which makes *everyone* fall back, Fearless or not.

By RAW, then, they are not units that "never fall back" so do suffer from FoD. But then, Deceive affects everyone, which means no one is completely immune from falling back...

Actually, it's only me that keeps saying Tank Shock isn't a Morale test. Whoops, sorry about that.

Griffon Infernus shells will also cause Daemons to fall back I believe.

I suppose you could say that Fearless units are affected by FOTD, and that they automatically pass the Morale test (BGB, pg.74). Since regular Daemons aren't Fearless, they're subject to taking an Instability test at the -2 modifier.

OK that raises another question ;I thought that if daemons get tank shocked they take thier instability test and the just move out of the way?
if that's the case it wouldn't really be falling back.

Just for the record I am a marine player but it seems strange that daemons would disappear when shown a vision of an "uncaring universe". More likely they would think to themselves: hmm sounds like my kinda place

Posted By spmusubi on 01/04/2007 5:14 PM
I suppose you could say that Fearless units are affected by FOTD, and that they automatically pass the Morale test (BGB, pg.74). Since regular Daemons aren't Fearless, they're subject to taking an Instability test at the -2 modifier.

I guess that would be the most logical application of the rules. 

Except RAW dosen't support it, as FoD affects models as if they have suffered 25% in the shooting phase, which affects demons, while it plainly states that models that does not fall back are immune to this power, which for all intents and purposes demons do not fall back.

This might actually be a dice roll off during a game.

But it's still a morale check. Daemons have specific rules as to what happens to them when they need to make a morale check. Regardless of them having to fallback or not, they are not fearless. When faced with a morale check (note that there are no specific exemptions) they take an instability check instead.

Now with that said, this also has to do with a 3rd edition codex being effected by a 4th edition rule. So while it may not seem fair to the CSM player, FoD, Tank shocking and anything causing morale checks would have this effect on the daemons.

Posted By DaIronGob on 01/05/2007 5:41 AM

Now with that said, this also has to do with a 3rd edition codex being effected by a 4th edition rule. So while it may not seem fair to the CSM player, FoD, Tank shocking and anything causing morale checks would have this effect on the daemons.

I have done my homework and think it is more than fair since we can still summon / move / assault on turn two.   There are advantages to having an out of date codex.

Well I was trying to keep personal opinions out of it about fairness. But I agree... this really gives all armies a different way to handle them rather than throwing bodies at them.

Yes, it forces a morale check, but that still fails to address the second limitation- models which do not fall back are unaffected. This would include Fearless units and Daemons. Deceiver's rule is a special rule and exception (as it even states!) and not relevant to to the discussion.

I agree that FoD should affect daemons, and I will play it that way.

However if I was challenged in a tournament by another player, I don't think I would have enough evidence or confidence to counter the other interpretation.