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Hello.

This has come up in games against a friend on three different occaisions.
Two units are fighting against each other and one wins the winner consolidates into a close combat that hasn't taken place yet, what happens? we've just avoided it until now but we want to know for later occurances, we think that they probably would get to fight again like in fantasy but they wouldn't count as charging becasue they didn't charge.

Thanks for any answers.

Page 44, under consolidation, last paragraph.

Units consolidating into a combat that hasn't been fought yet do not count as being engaged and are "effectively ignored" when you fight the other combat.

Itsn't clear whether this means the unit doesn't "lock" the new enemy unit either, so it makes a bunch of situations unclear (such as sweeping advances, Pile In moves and consolidations)


I think the safest way to play it is to assume that the consolidating unit LOCKS the new enemy unit into combat, but they are ignored when fighting that other combat.

However, since the two units are locked the new enemy unit isn't going to be able to make a sweeping advance on the enemy unit they were already fighting if they win the combat (as they're locked in combat with the unit that consoidated into them). They also wouldn't pile-in against each other because they hadn't actually fought each other.


Basically, it's a mess. But thanks for reminding me cause its going to go in the Dakka/yak FAQ.

A house rule that we've often used to avoid this issue is to simply wait until all assaults are resolved before handling any consolidation or massacre moves. Requires you to think in a little different manner, and using markers so that you know who needs to move, but it works out fairly well.

Sal.

I've been doing it that way with a couple of my friends too.

I generally see "effectively ignored" read a bit more strongly than Yak. No locking. The unit you consolidate into is free to consolidate away from you if they manage to wipe out or break their opposition too.

The "effectively" part is just read to mean that the models are there on the table- you can't move OVER them with your consolidation move.

Posted By Mannahnin on 01/07/2007 8:03 AM
I generally see "effectively ignored" read a bit more strongly than Yak. No locking. The unit you consolidate into is free to consolidate away from you if they manage to wipe out or break their opposition too.

The "effectively" part is just read to mean that the models are there on the table- you can't move OVER them with your consolidation move.

Well, that's one way to play it I suppose. Of course the rules don't ever state that the unit consolidating into the new combat isn't locking those new combatants into combat, just that the models don't count as being engaged until the following assualt phase.

It seems as simple a way as any to handle the situation, however.

That's an interesting situation.

The way I usually play it is that if I massacre into a unit is is locked in combat. To avoid the mess though I just do the combats that have the least likelyhood to turn into massacre first (if they are close enough to become an issue). Therefore the ones that turn into massacres have a place to cosolodate into to avoid next turn fire.

You are only locked if you are engaged, if I remember reading things right. So if you don't count as being engaged then you wouldn't count as locked either.

Posted By blood angel on 01/08/2007 8:12 PM
You are only locked if you are engaged, if I remember reading things right. So if you don't count as being engaged then you wouldn't count as locked either.

Nope. Units are locked and models in locked unit are considered engaged. If a rule says the models in a unit don't count as being engaged then by the RAW the unit would still count as being locked in combat.

 

I posted a question about this very thing about a month ago. A situation came up in a game where one unit was trying to massacre into another unit that also had massacred. Resolving all the consolidations simultaneously resulted in a bit of a mess.

It was eventually hammered out in that thread that the best way to do it is RAW: finish each combat completely including massacre moves. Consolidating units are ignored for the rest of the assault phase (they're still "on their way over" . If a subsequent assault allows your opponent to pull casualties, he may indeed pull the casualties such that the unit is no longer in base to base (and therefore no longer locked) by the first consolidating unit. So be it.

It makes the choice of which assaults to resolve first a critical one.