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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/01/06 12:54:13
Subject: Variant Saim Hann List (Mostly jetbikes)
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Dakka Veteran
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This isn't necessarily going to be the most competitive list, but is an idea I have thought of trying out. Something like 2 Spear/bike/Fusion Autarchs, 2 Shining spears units with the S8 lances, 3 Jetbikes/Shuricannons w/ Warlocks with Destructor or Embolden. That would be the core of the list. I am trying to consider what else to include. The obvious choice would be some snakes on planes, but I am somewhat hesitant to do so, due to watering down the theme a bit, and not having the extra Wave Serpents to cover for the Falcons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/01/08 04:49:54
Subject: RE: Variant Saim Hann List (Mostly jetbikes)
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Dakka Veteran
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Hmm.
Little bit more on the list idea. Ended up with 1 Autarch, 1 Farseer with 3 Warlocks, all on bikes with Singings Spears. Warlocks have Destructor, Farseer has Mind War and Doom. 3 units of 4 Shining Spears w/ tooled Exarch. 3 Fire Prisms (for the versatility, no need for the transport ability of the Falcon) The rest of the points in 3 man Jetbikes w/ cannon and Warlock, with Singing Spear and Destructor.
Has alot of antitank, can take out heavy infantry/MCs with Shining Spears + Autarch, a little bit worried about anti-horde capability, but the Spears aren't too bad at it considering the extra shot before assault, and the Shuriken Cannons can help out, plus the 3 Prisms with ordnance templates.
Resilience is due to mobility and redundancy.
Any problems you forsee, against specific lists or not? Any advice for the best tactics to use with the list?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/01/08 10:14:39
Subject: RE: Variant Saim Hann List (Mostly jetbikes)
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Plastictrees
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Vanilla marines and necrons will always be the rock to the scissors of an Eldar jetbike army. Jetbikes just can't produce enough MeQ casualties to win big against heavy infantry armies.
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"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/01/09 11:06:29
Subject: RE: Variant Saim Hann List (Mostly jetbikes)
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Dakka Veteran
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I am not so sure of that. With the large amount of S9 firepower, + the S 10 AP1 Prism shots every turn, taking down the monolith should be easy.
After that, Shining Spears cause 6 or so casualties on the charge, and Necrons and most Vanilla marines won't be able to withstand something like that. Necrons are in fact, ideal targets as they may very well survive the first assault phase, and won't be dangerous enough in close combat to really threaten the spears, and they can then withdraw the next phase. The Autarch also causes 4 or so casualties charging not including a melta shot, and thus should be able to charge on his own, if you want to be risky like that.
Add in the Prisms throwing around Ordnance blasts that wound on 2+ and are AP3, and the occasional mindwar from the farseer targetting heavy weapons, and that should help out alot. I was actually more concerned about horde armies than MEQ.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/01/10 03:57:48
Subject: RE: Variant Saim Hann List (Mostly jetbikes)
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Plastictrees
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Shining spears and biketarchs need to be within 18" of their target unit at the end of the turn before they charge. Unless they can get a lucky position behind cover (which, okay, they will sometimes be able to do) that means they'll get rapid-fired in the turn before they charge. 8 gauss rifles/boltguns rapidfiring a unit of singing spears kills 1.75 models (so at least one, and probably 2--definitely 2 if there's a plasma gun, even with turbo-boosting).
Your low-AP and shining spear plan works on a table where there is no cover. But if the MEq player sets up in cover, that cuts your shooting casualties by 33-50% (even more with necrons getting back up). Shining spears don't have plasma grenades, so if you're forced to charge into cover that will also thin your units by about .5 models per charge (accounting for the autarch's plasma grenade attacks and assuming a 10-model MEq unit with 1 attack per model) before they get to attack.
But give it a try and see if it works.
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"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/01/10 05:10:20
Subject: RE: Variant Saim Hann List (Mostly jetbikes)
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Dakka Veteran
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Yeah, cover was the big worry with the Shining Spears.
But I thought the Plasma Grenades made all models strike in initiative order. Am I wrong on that?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/01/10 05:38:53
Subject: RE: Variant Saim Hann List (Mostly jetbikes)
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Plastictrees
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"...the unit using them (grenades) gains the added benefit shown." (p.39)
So the unit using them--the autarch--benefits from the grenades, and he's a separate unit for purposes of resolving close combat.
But the singing spears don't have grenades, and they don't get the special rules of the character who joins them unless specified (p. 50), so they don't benefit from the autarch's grenades.
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"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/01/12 18:13:58
Subject: RE: Variant Saim Hann List (Mostly jetbikes)
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Been Around the Block
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As a long time Saim-Hann player (who actually used a lot of jetbikes), I'd say a jetbike army still works very well. Sure, Marines and Necrons are tough, but the key is simply to use your HS, FA, and Elite troops to counterbalance your jetbikes' high AP. An all jetbike army probably won't work, but if you throw in some Spears, Starcannons, falcons, Fire Dragons, etc, then you can have a pretty good shot. The main reason that I take jetbikes is because 1) the enemy wastes fire/firing opportunities trying to kill them 2) They're great tank hunters 3) They're probably the best objective takers in the game (24" boost on the last turn and even if you go first you still have a 3+ inv save.) I don't take them to deal with hordes or to oblterate my enemy. I take them just to be on the table. The enemy isn't afraid of them, so he thinks, "oh I'll shoot them next turn, I'll shoot em next turn" until it's turn 4 and they have less shots at them and now all of a sudden they have no way to get them below half. With the Spears the way they are, I think the army could work. I'm not sure about the autarch with lances though. You seem to plan on charging him in with the spears, but he won't be able to pop out with them. So, you'll either charge in and kill everything and now you're in the open (bad) or you'll take out part of the squad and only have a bunch of S3 attacks, and if the Spears leave combat, then the autarch will be left alone (also bad) and probably won't get near his points back. Maybe just save 20pts and just make him a tank hunter. Some guardian bikes w/ locks, a couple spear squads, DEFINITELY at least 1 autarch (if for nothing else than the +1 to reserves roll. The only thing worse against a Marine army than a jetbike army is a jetbike army that comes in 3 squads at a time), and then a Falcon or 2 or some Vypers and I'd say you have a nice force (remember Vypers are jetbikes too!). As I always say, give it a try. Just about every army is fun to play at least once (even if it gets horribly massacred).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/01/15 21:14:52
Subject: RE: Variant Saim Hann List (Mostly jetbikes)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So what's the best way to use jetbikes? 3 guys and a shurikannon? 9 bukes, 3 shuris, warlock with spear and enhance? Both types in one army or something in between?
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Dakka on World of Warcraft:
MANNAHNIN: I know two guys who have had to quit the game cold turkey because the time investment required by it caused problems with their family life.
JFRAZELL: So in other words, nature is self selecting out those not fit to survive and breed? Hail WOW replacing savannah lions since 1997... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/01/16 00:36:56
Subject: RE: Variant Saim Hann List (Mostly jetbikes)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I have seen them used in two configurations:
1. 3 Jetbikes w/ Cannon + Warlock with Embolden and a Spear
The idea w/ Embolden is that you usually don't want to get close enough to the enemy to use distructor because the countercharge means dead Jetbikes. This configuration helps the Jetbikes not run of the table and makes them decent anti- light tank unit, plus it keeps them cheap.
2. 6 Jetbikes w/ 2 Cannons
They cost very close to the same amount as option 1, though you take the risk of them breaking without Embolden, you can usually conter that if you keep them near an Avatar. Also you double your S. Cannon Fire. Since Jetbikes can JSJ, they can provide an excellent contribution to combined arms fire power in lists that use shooting to hold the enemy back.
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Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)
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