Just curious about Black Templars

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**kradhoso**

This maybe have been covered in earlier posts, but I was just wondering what were the strenghts and weaknesses of the Black Templars ?

**mothman_451**

pros: assault(fearless), rz movement(scary with terms, increased by hqs-reliability and distance), horde marines(neophytes+initates=possible 20 man squad)

cons: no devs, poor shooting(priority testing), have to have at least 2 hqs(champ and another)

**kradhoso**

thx !

**mothman_451**

yeah have been meaning to write a reveiw on them: looking at all the units and options, various army styles but haven't got around to it maybe i will now. everybody complains that thye got nerfed but i like how they play now and there isnt as much complaining, now they just have to fix blood angels and death company(better become a unit of choice).

what type of army are you interested in?

horde marines

vehicle rush(practically dead if playing compertitive or tourny)

drop pod

or elite heavy(sword brethren and termies)

i've always wanted to do a large horde templar army, with righteous zeal chaplains with servitors it can be faster than using vehicles.

**Corpsman_of_Krieg**

I have a Templars list currently up in the 40K Army List section for the Black Templars. They were my first army, and I've been a loyal user for several years. Their main upside for their troops is 20-man squads for 235 pts, that will dish out 60 Attacks on the charge. I don't make use of this in my own list simply because I'm poor, but it is definitely worth considering 10 Initiates and between 5 and 10 Neophytes as your basic troops.

CK

**kradhoso**

actually horde templars interested me most

what is the benefit of taking neophytes ? Is it because you can hide them behind the 3+ armour save of initiates until they get in CC, where their lower point cost makes them more cost effective than "normal" space marines ? (I dont actually own the back templar codex, so while i have a very basic idea about how black templars work, i did not read the rules/stats of each unit)

cause other than the 4+ save, neophytes' stat line is the same as a regular SM right ? (exactly like scouts) and can you give them ccw/bp ?

thanks for your anwsers !

**Mnemoch**

Neophytes are cheaper, that's the advantage. However, I think that 235 pts is a bit low for a maxed out BT squad. Should be over to 300, assuming a fist and melta (which seems pretty standard). Actually, he probably meant to type 325, now that I think about it.

For maximum attacks, tho, not much can beat a 16-strong Blood Claw pack. That's 16 power fist attacks and 48 normal attacks, for less than a maxed out Crusader squad. 'Course, Claws don't get the Zeal rule, but in terms of sheer assualty damage that's about as good as SM get.

**Corpsman_of_Krieg**

@Mnemoch: The points for a single maxed out BT Crusader Squad is 285 points

10 Initiates (160 pts) + Power Fist (15 pts) + Meltagun (10 pts) = 185 pts

10 Neophytes = 100 pts

2PF Attacks + 37 Regular Attacks = CC Killy goodness for 285.

Thanks for pointing that out. I just realized I had been thinking of a 10 Init. 5 Neophyte Squad instead of a 10 In. 10 Neo. unit.

Their only real downside to a 20-man is that they're so frickin big. I can never hide them outside of CoD, and even then, they get kicked around until they're in CC range. I plan to use 15-mans at some point (only have the 10 Inits at the moment), because they carry all the benefits of a 20 man without the huge size.

@khradoso: Neophytes may only be armed with Bolt Pistols and CCWs, or Shotguns. Initiates have Bolters, but can swap them out for BPs and CCWs for free, which is a given for Templars, since they're Fearless in H2H, have Righteous Zeal to get there quicker, and can take vows that can A) make you hit 66% of the time in CC, no matter what, B) Make all your Initiates Strength 5, Initiative 3, C) give you a 6 Invulnerable Save for all of your units at the loss of Cover Saves, or D) make all minor psychic powers worthless against you, in addition to being able to nullify Psychic abilities on a 5+.

CK

**Mahu**

If you are going to field super big units of Black Templars, you might as well field a Cynobyte Server armed Chaplain. A maxed out one adds an additional 3" to your movement. Plus the fact that he confers Crusader Seals unto the whole unit. That equals D6" (w/ re-roll) + 3 inches of movement at the end of most shooting phases. Because you oponent has one of two options. Leave the squad alone and have it get there eventually or try and wipe it out which gives you the extra movement.

You can also field 6-man Las-Plas in a Templars army. Just give the unit Crusader Seals, that way, if they do zeal you have a chance to re-roll the distance. I.E. if they move to far forward you can hope to re-roll low.

A friend was telling me that the core of one competitve build was a Terminator Chaplain and 7 Assault Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader takin as a transport, then taking 3 Predators. An assault squad lead by another chaplain, and a few big squads where the Emporers Champion may be.

**Sarigar**

Mahu, that sounds like an interesting list. I don't play Marines, but that seems to have promise.

**Corpsman_of_Krieg**

That's a good idea - I had forgotten about that:

10 Initiates, 10 Neophytes, 1 Chaplain, 3 Cenobyte Servitors = 24 Models that can move 6", Assault 6", and get up to 9" each turn. That means a 24-man Crusader Squad could move 21" in a single turn. That's scary.

CK

**General Hobbs**

You take the neophyte to ensure a casualty so you can run forward. Obviously it is easier to miss a 4+then a 3+, and there are more ap 4 weapons out there then ap 3.

Of course, a smart opponent seeing a huge Templar squad with 10 Neophytes will gun that unit down with say, a Tornado, where all the saves have to come from the worst in the majority. But otherwise, after the initial loss, it goes to the majority save....

The weakness of Templars is that you have to test for just 1 casualty....so a Templar squad against the table edge is a prime target....he takes one casualty, rolls high and the squad is gone.

Another thing to consider.....he moves his units up, ut they are not in assault range. So he shoots a couple of units, they advance into his assault range.....

**ninjajuicer**

They may have gotten a little nerfed since the last 'dex, but they still have some good options. While powergamers have been complaining about their armies getting nerfed, someone has appearently done well with them at least once.

Chicago GT 2006 Standings:
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bordercolor="#000000" border="1" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="center"> <tbody> <tr height="12"> <td height="12" class="xl31">1</td> <td width="68" class="xl26">Shaun</td> <td width="64" class="xl26">Kemp</td> <td width="69" nowrap="nowrap" class="xl26">Word Bearers</td> <td width="53" class="xl29">

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