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Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

Note: this thread is not meant to generate any flame wars or other antagonism. My intent is to have a serious discourse based on the state of the hobby as many perceive it. If you think everything is hunky-dory, and can say so without being hostile, great! This is, after all, a discussion forum. If you're angry at GW, or are bored with 40k or whatever, that's fine, that's part of why I'm posting. Either way, let's keep the conversation positive and thoughtful, shall we?

Kvetching about GW rules and policy has been part of Dakka since its halcyon Imperial days, and it seems to be reaching a cycle of fever pitch. More often than not, some folk mention how they don't play 40k or fantasy anymore, or aren't buying any more new product, or have moved to a different system (Warmachine, Confrontation and FOW being among the most popular 'alternatives').

So let me ask this question: what would bring you back to the so-called 'GW Hobby'? Is it too late for that? Is it prices? The direction of White Dwarf? The rules? Has it merely run its course? Would you feel satisfied continuing to play, say, 3rd ed.? Or 4th ed. pre-SM Redux? Or Rogue Trader? How about 6th ed. Fantasy vs. 7th ed. etc. ?

What would it take to bring the magic back? 

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

I just honestly dont know. I feel like a spouse who has been trying to make a relatioship work for the past two decades, for the sake of the kids. Finally, the last straw breaks the camels back and there is no turning back.
So, I linger hanging out with mutual friends when we were together. Still despising the other for past transgressions, real and or imagined.

For me, to bring me back? It would have to be a totally different person. Like the person had a sudden death experience and just got out of rehab type of change.

If another company tried its hand at GW, I might go back just out of curiosity from what the new company had done to the IP. if it was good, then Ii would return. If bad, no big deal because I wasnt intending on returning anyways.

Until then, I am just content to be a scorned lover, elated at the news of the others downfalls and failures.

   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




In your house, rummaging through your underwear drawer

Nothing. I'm sorry to say that I've moved on. I try to keep up on new releases with my WD supscription, and I buy the occasional miniature or two, but that's probably more due to lingering loyalty to the Warhammer universe(s) than real interest in the Games Workshop hobby.

I still love it, I probably always will, but I'm just not in love with it anymore.

"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow"~Oscar Wilde 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

Posted By syr8766 on 01/16/2007 7:12 PM
So let me ask this question: what would bring you back to the so-called 'GW Hobby'? Is it too late for that? Is it prices? The direction of White Dwarf? The rules? Has it merely run its course? Would you feel satisfied continuing to play, say, 3rd ed.? Or 4th ed. pre-SM Redux? Or Rogue Trader? How about 6th ed. Fantasy vs. 7th ed. etc. ?

What would it take to bring the magic back? 

Release FAQs, playtest rules
Don't make any more crap models (possessed, ethereals, etc)
Make White Dwarf more than an expensive advertisement

I wouldn't mind the prices now if these things were changed.

And the biggest, most recent nail in the coffin for GW is the dumbing down of lists and removing the unique, interesting sub armies. That was the one reason I really liked 40k, there were so many interesting armies available. I've been out of GW entirely waiting for them to change, and there is no way I'm going back if they go through with this. GW, stop before it's (even more so) too late.

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




I don't think there is anything that could restore the love of the game. A more responsive system, and one that worked at all points values instead of 1700-1850 would be good. I mean, I was never a huge fan of playing against jetpack librarians and speeders in 500 point games. I was inimpressed by the predictable nature of the game, the poor attitude of the players, the money it takes to play more than one force, and the poorly written rules. As a competative player there were armies that I wanted to make but were never feasible because of poor rules for certain models (swooping hawks for example). GW would need completely revamp their fluff too - just plain hate it, always have.

So yea, if they moved to a more flexible, well written set of rules with more affordable models, more imaginative fluff, and well balanced armies, I might come back. Unlikely, since WM has recently provided all of this for me.

Reminds me of the magic of the first computer game I played, first girl I dated, or hell even the first dollar I earned. We get used to it, the magic dies, and expectations rise. Human nature is going to win out over toy soldiers. Hope it takes much longer to acclimatize to the rest of life!
   
Made in lk
Dakka Veteran





Sri Lanka

More Dan Abnett and Gordon Rennie.

Bugger the company. It's the brand I love.


   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





In general, I am happy with the GW games. They provide a nice change from the other games that I play, and I really enjoy painting GW models.

That being said, I would like it if WFB became more like Warhammer Ancients, with more of a focus on big units of heavy infantry and heavy cavalry, and less of a focus on skirmishers and characters.

For 40k, I would get rid of most of the overly detailed rules in the rulebook, like "Torrent of Fire", while I would bring back the cool sub-lists, like the Salamanders and Craftworld Eldar. I think the basic rules for 40k should be as simple as possible, while the real detail should be in the army lists.

Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill 
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard




The drinking halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called

Bring back Andy Chambers and give him overall control.

R.I.P Amy Winehouse


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

-If BFG and EPIC caught on like fire.
-a large gorup of players over 18.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

(Just realized I didn't post my own thoughts, and that's not fair!).

For me, the lack of small-game support exhausts me.

I'm not just talking about the Fanatic Games (BFG, Mordheim, etc.), but that WHF and 40k are basically 10-15mm games in 28mm scale. I can't tell you how many armies went half finished for years because the thought of painting my 60th guardsman, or 40th sister, or 200th ungor was just overwhelming. COD brought me back because of its emphasis on smaller games (1000-1500 being the 'sweet spot') and rendering certain 'unusable' units effective (e.g. WH freakshow units), and US GTs going to 1750 is a step in the right direction, but "Apocalypse", in my humble opinion, is not.

If GW made a real effort to do a serious skirmish level game for both genres, not just a cast-off like Combat Patrol or Killteam or Lunchhammer, or redesigned both games to be playable at 1000 points or less, I'd consider buying figs and rules again. Heck, I'd even buy a Chapter-Approved style 'booklet' with just the (tightened up) rules for CP, KT (or fantasy equivalents), some articles and rules on campaigns, etc. Throw in the stuff on boarding actions for BFG and you've got a winner.

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





The wilds of Pennsyltucky

I used to sing GW's praises. Not so much anymore. It's morelike Jon Stewart on Crossfire nowadays.

I want better support fo rthos eof us who havebeen in thegame for a while. I love the 40k universe. I love the fluff. But I feel as if I have been priced out and interested out. 

I would like: LOWER PRICES, a true skirmish level game for 1000 points, better WD support of the game (how many how to make  ahill articles can we stomach?) and codexes for every loyalist first founding chapter.  

ender502


"Burning the aquila into the retinas of heretics is the new black." - Savnock

"The ignore button is for pansees who can't deal with their own problems. " - H.B.M.C. 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







I'd need what Yair needs: a smaller game. Part of my dislike of the game comes from
the fact that the larger game requires so much armylist redundancy. Am I wrong in
believing that? It's just an impression I get from the games I've played and from
poring over the forum posts.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in de
Dominating Dominatrix






Piercing the heavens

wow, somehow you're all right. after playing Warmachine fopr some time I now realize that it was fun to have such a small game with still so many options. I tried Kill Team once or twice, and it's "okay", but somehow it needs more...I don't know, possiblitis.

I try to get away from WD bashing, since I have the feeling that it seems to be a great magazine for people who just got into the hobby, but it can't be that difficult to put some testing rules in it or something.


and just btw. I am really scared about how serious Jester's post just was. I mean, that's creepy, he never talks like that...
   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

Short answer. A lot.

1. They'd need to completely throw away the current edition in favor of a brand new start. The trouble with the current compaction of the ruleset is that it hampers the game designer's ability to differentiate units. A good example is the difference between stormtroopers and basic guardsmen. The new edition should contain some of the following (some of the 3rd-4th edition changes were in good order).

- Differing movement rates for infantry
- Overhauled vehicle rules - Instead of glance/penetrate there should be a basic damage table, and a critical damage table.
- Leadership, pinning, fleeing and regrouping should be made more important.
- A set of "universal special rules" as exists presently - and STICK to it instead of writing rules that are "kind of like deepstrike, or kind of like nightfight".
- A RAVENING HORDES STYLE LIST FOR ALL ARMIES CONTAINING BASIC UNITS ONLY - i.e. full troops selections, and only make available 2 of every other slot. All other units to be re-balanced and re-released with "Campaign" style codecies. 3 releases a year.

The initial rulebook should be basic rules for 1000 (and under) style skirmish game.

The first supplement should expand the game to 2000 points.

1a. FAQs need to be issued in good order.

2. White Dwarf should be a vehicle for moddeling help, new scenarios (some with asymetric points values), and games-day / tournament showcases in addition to the inescapable ads.

3. Prices need to drop around ~33%. (Possibly unrealistic, I can stomach paying $50 cdn for a dreadnought, but right now, paying $45 cdn for four plastic ironguts is ridiculous - so, $30 cdn for four ironguts would be passable, and that $35 dread would be FLYING off the shelf.)

3a. Prices also need to be stabilized across regions. It is slowed that a battleforce costs 20% more in Canada than in the US after currency conversion. Price disparities should not be more than 5%.

4. An aside, but GW could really stand to streamline its inventory. Addon sprues should be sold seperate from the base kit. This would help converters and cut down on space for storing all these extra base kits. The Rhino is a good example, since a Chaos upgrade kit would remove both the Chaos Rhino, Chaos Predator and the Chaos Landraider from shelves (-edit- if they added a Sarcophagus front piece sprue to this box, they could ixnay the terrible Chaos Dread too!). A artillery upgrade kit would remove both the whirlwind and the vindicator. etc.

Anyhow, that's just off the top of my head. I'm just mostly sick of GW treating its veterans like a bunch of retards - with their "the Veterans will never leave" doctrine, and their rhetoiric of trying to placate the angry massess with idiotic excuses.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I have enjoyed WHFB for years. I agree with ph43r about the rules and playtesting. GW really needs to tighten up the rules, and be consistent on their wording, and playtest things before they publish errata and FAQ (if they do playtest already, they need to do a helluva lot better job than they have been). They need to distinguish between 'may' and 'must', they need to get out of the habit of giving the same rule a different name just because it's on a different army [edit: what Keezus said]; they really need to post official, provisional lists for all the armies when the new edition of the rules comes out (I can't wait for salamaders to get nerfed in their new army book, until then, I hate hate hate facing lizardmen) [edit: what Keezus said. Again.  In fact, so many of his ideas are great, I should probably just delete my post... nah].   It has been said by many players that 7th ed. is a unneccessary rules set, that all of the changes together add up only to version 6.5.  I tend to agree, but mostly I'm just thankful that they didn't screw everything up.  The biggest problem with Fantasy is the staggered release of the army books, and the power-creep that always occurs.  If the new army isn't percieved as cool and powerful, no one will buy it; if it is actually more powerful, the armies that came before are unjustly slighted and people stop playing them.  I have no idea how to fix this.  With, what? 16? different armies, trying to update them all at once (a la Warmachine) is not possible.  Releasing new units for four armies four times a year, with the rules in the box, seems like a good idea- but then you end up not having the rules all together in one place, i.e. an army book.  In short, while there is room for improvement, the basic rules are okay.  It is the special rules for each army that cause the most trouble.


For 40K, I think only a total rewrite of the rules, with changes to the basic system, would make me start playing again. They have managed to take a set of game mechanics, unrealistically simplify them, and then make them too complicated. I switched to Starship Troopers, and I love the gameplay even though the minis are the suxx0r.

It would be nice if WD went back to being an interesting magazine instead of a $6, multi-page brochure ( We get it. You want to sell us stuff. Okay, shut up, we bought your magazine) and had more support of their 'second-tier' games. When was the last time you saw a battle report for Epic or Mordheim in WD? There are basically just five sections now: the 40K stuff, the WHFB stuff, the LoTR stuff, the 'hobby' stuff (ooh! How to make a hill!), and the 'buy this' stuff. Someone just picking up the magazine would never know that GW has such games as Warmaster or Bloodbowl. Not good for a rag thats' only purpose is to encourage sales.

As for the pricing, well, I still pay the asking price for any GW stuff that I want.  I may cringe a little, and witch-and-bhine about the outrageous robbery, but I'll pay.  Lower prices would be nice, yes; pricing that reflected the company's cost of production, as opposed to pricing based on a model's value in the game, would make me feel less taken advantage of.  I look at Skarsnik or Ludwig Schwartzhelm for $25, and I think that my old Ludwig is just dandy, and I can convert a Skarsnik that looks just as good or better.  But I'll pony up for that regiment box of Ironguts.

This, by the way, has been one of the most interesting threads in a long time.  Thank you Syr.


He's got a mind like a steel trap. By which I mean it can only hold one idea at a time;
it latches on to the first idea to come along, good or bad; and it takes strenuous effort with a crowbar to make it let go.
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Sentient OverBear






Clearwater, FL

I'm still "sort-of" playing right now; I'm painting up a few armies and have a decent group of locals to play with. 

What I would REALLY like to see are the following:

1.  Make the minis a LOT cheaper (about 50% of what they are now) and put on an advertising blitz.  Expand the hobby and make profit through volume, not markup.

2.  Combine the kits a la Keezus' suggestion.  Makes it easier for local shops to stock stuff too.

3.  Make the basic units VERY affordable.  A squad of 10 tactical marines should be $15; a unit box of Fantasy should have 20-30 models and cost $20.

4.  Get GOOD volunteer playtesters across the US, UK and Europe (so that lists compete in different environments).  Make people sign NDAs, and LISTEN to their feedback.

5.  Standardize the rules, keep the FAQ's up. 

6.  Add new units periodically that COME WITH THEIR RULES.  This keeps each army fresh even for veterans. 

7.  Have small "Imperial Guard vs. Orks" and "Marines vs. Nids" type sets, with a small force of each.  Add a special objective/terrain sprue that's only available in the box, and make the whole thing a good deal.  It could be a mini-game (a la Kill Team) in its own right, or be used with bigger games.

8.  Bring back online retailers!

My two cents, anyways.

DQ:70S++G+++M+B++I+Pw40k94+ID+++A++/sWD178R+++T(I)DM+++

Trust me, no matter what damage they have the potential to do, single-shot weapons always flatter to deceive in 40k.                                                                                                       Rule #1
- BBAP

 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

Hmmm, I'm prety easy to please:

1) Decent FAQ's to answer all of our questions, not just the ones that are easy to answer. Good or bad, It'd be nice to have a single set of rules for all tournaments, leagues, etc.

2) New RTT and GT scenarios, and a new casual play scenarios in every White dwarf for 40k.

3) If not a price drop, a promise that all future box sets will be optimized for player value (1 AC per termie box, 5 scouts for $20, the current empire range, etc.) Even the current stealth box set actually has all the options, and while they're a little more than the old metals, it's close. I have no problem with paying for a quality product. If the termie box was $55, but it included every possible option, I'd be happy.

4) Bring back chapter approved, campaign lists, new units, etc, etc. More rules, more options, more fun!

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Silverdale, WA

I've never played WHFB. I used to play Epic (although it was called "Space Marine" back then) as well as a few of the smaller type games. The main one I've played over the years is 40K though. Having never left the game my opinions don't really weigh very much, but that won't stop me from posting them.

One of the things most of us veterans miss are the more realistic rules like varying movement rates, shooting/AP modifiers, and the old vehicle rules. Although I miss those things too I've gotta say I like being able to play a game in a third of the time it used to take. Overwatch was a mixed blessing too. It made the game great by breaking up the 'you go I go' style of play, but it also lead to a rash of idiotic 'first one who moves dies' games. So, with these conflicting thoughts in mind here are my ideas:

1. Either get rid of the 'you go I go' style or do something to make the first turn less powerful. Even beyond the first turn allowing a unit to move, fire, and charge across open ground without any fear is a bit hard to swallow. The weighted method, alternating unit, or command point methods seem to work OK for other systems.

2. Universal rules that are found in the rulebook and only reference by the codices. This is a tricky one too. I like armies being different from each other, but it seems like GW could accomplish that with a more expansive selection of Universal Rules. If enough thought was put into it they could even be used for customizing forces like the traits or doctrines. For example: Kroot Hounds could purchase the "Leaping" ability. That keeps the forces fresh and different while at the same time making sure we are all on the same page. I don't have to own the Tyranid dex anymore to know what "Leaping" is, and even though I don't have any units that can use "Leaping" in my force I have access to the USR in my rulebook. It seems as though they could do the same with weaponry as well. Some weapons could be codex specific, like spore mines, while others could just reside in the rulebook , like assault cannons. Again, this would not only clarify it to all, but it could open the door for other armies to use weapons as a trait or something.

3. More plastic! I don't mind heroes being lead...or pewter, whatever, but come on! A set of 4 models in metal is a hard pill to swallow mostly because of the price but also because two of them are in the same pose. I want plastic, and I want options. I'll pay the premium price they're asking but I want 2 assault cannons in every termy set, 2 twin-inferno pistols in every seraphim set, and a hull heavy bolter in every Russ set! Separately sold upgrade sprues are fair game as well. Whatever it takes.

I'm repeating some things that have been said by others earlier in this thread, but a good point is a good point.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



California

This is another damn hard question to answer. GW right now has nothing I can't get cheaper, better, and more fun from other companies. Let's go with what i used to love about GW, and what has replaced it (if anything has).

1) Fan base. I used to be able to find a game in 20 minutes in myold town with a cool guy, with a fun army. Maybe its just the area near me, but I have to plan a week or two in advance, and it's usually at a bad time. Finding a casual game of 1850pt 40k is like finding a hooker in a library at lunch time - it's damn hard. Instead, I play warmachine. I'm guaranteed a game once or twice a week - and I can get it nearly any time.

2) Miniatures. I used to like buying a box set, painting it, and then gaming with it. Sadly, quality has gone down, and the minis are just damn repetitive. Instead, i've turned to Confrontation. SWEET minis, nearly all different, and not nearly so many of them.

3) Rules. GW used to be FUN to play with friends, now the games are filled with rules questions, overpowered armies, and left-in-the-dark codexes. Goodbye GW, and I'll either play hordes, or warmachine for a good even-sided game.

4) Cool magazine (WD). I still kinda like WD, but not really. Not enough battle reports (or believable ones), not enough gamer painted armies, not enough new fun rules, and just the same old crap every issue. I now read internet articles, cry havoc, or No quarter.

5) Prices. I used to be able to buy a good army for $250 - $300. Now, i'm paying that for 1000pts, and even then not optimised. I can buy a sweet 750pt army for WM for $175 or less (my khador 500pt army was $98, and my cygnar army for about that too).

4) Huge armies battling it out. No substitute i've found. Wanting to try out FoW, but no fan base, and the minis are a tad too small.

So basically, GW has one thing going for it; big armies. However, there are so many problems associated with huge armies, I almost never play with big games.

Pity, but GW really has to change. For me, I just traded the last of my GW for Khador, and a chunk of confrontation...and I consider it jumping ship, because GW is sinking.

Chuck

"I know what hearsay is, I do not know what a federal librarian is as I am not American and to me a librarian is a person who helps you find books and then returns them back to their shelves or stacks at night (so your credentials do not awe me, and do not impress me" -
IG fan 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





First, they need to iron out the inconsistencies in the rules and tighten up the wording. The current game system would at least be fairly enjoyable if you didn't have to stop and come to an agreement with your opponent on the intent of a particular rule ten times in a game. Even two completely reasonable and understanding people can come to different conclusions, and these discussions just kill the flow of the game.  If they got that right, they could move on to addressing some of the balance issues and insert a bit more complexity to the game.

-Skimmers are too durable, other vehicles are too easy to render ineffective. Perhaps introduce a system for vehicle damage which isn't so "all or nothing", reducing the abilities of the vehicle as it takes damage, but making it nearly impossible to kill it with a single shot.
-The impact of first turn could be reduced by increasing the overall durability of infantry to reign in how much can be killed in a single turn. This would require a lower model count for most armies, and keeping a close eye on potential abuses of certain weapons. With that in place, you-go-I-go wouldn't be so bad, I think, but I suppose you could have a roll each turn to see who gets to go first.
-Super-detailed rules addressing every little minute detail aren't needed, but it'd be nice to have more tactical options, to promote diversity in play styles. A Movement stat would be nice, as would save modifiers, and a form of overwatch (though the 2nd Ed version would likely cause problems).
-Most general special rules should also be included in the main book, but please give them generalized names instead of ones which associate them with one particular army (maybe Anti-Tank instead of Melta). Armies can still have their own rules, but an effort should be made to stick with the ones in the main rulebook as much as possible. Perhaps widen the parameter of some of the existing special rules to increase their utility. For example, True Grit allows a two-handed Rapid Fire or Assault weapon to be used in conjunction with a CCW. This could give Dire Avengers a boost (have all of them carry a simple CCW to go with the Shuricat), and eliminate a superfluous special rule for the Kroot Rifle. Or maybe unify Marines' ATSKNF, Tau Bonding, and Guard Iron Discipline into a single rule.

Once the core system has been nailed down, take a look at, say, three or four of the core armies, and design them from the ground up with these new rules in mind, and release them all together as a splash release along with the new edition. After that, set to work on the other armies, and release another every other month or so. To increase the efficiency in the army release schedule, focus mainly on the rules. I like fluff, but there's really only so much to say in a game univers which is pretty much static, and there are really only so many ways to say the same thing. Besides, most expansions of the fluff can be done through White Dwarf. It's fine to have some models released alongside a codex, but perhaps stagger things out so that we have something to look forward to, even if the book has been out for a while.

A little bit stream-of-consciousness, but ehh....
   
Made in au
Lethal Lhamean






What keezus said would be good..

I also think what beef said has a point.. There is no face for 40k.. Andy chambers, use to be that (in WD).. I use to look forward to what he said, because he was 40k (hell I had him sign my Tau codex). Now its just a faceless block of text, in an Ad rag. Or maybe the new guys aren't personality types.. Before 40k use to feel like a bunch of gamers making a game (feel like, I know it was a business then too).. Now it feels like a corporate piece of dung..

Index Astartes was cool, They should of got more of them and not made them so marine focused.. Like all the eldar craftwords.. make up some pirate fleets.. Great big Campaign stories.. Imperial guard regiments in Index style.. notorious Tau cadres. Tyranid splinter fleets with interesting differnces.

Marines are popular because they are easy and well supported.. If they were as well supported as Grey knights - and had similar poor rules, and you gave the good rules and support to IG then everyone would play IG, and there would be Chaos IG..

Oh Thats Right GW STOP FOCUSING ON MARINES.. Chaos has 5 dex's now (rumored).. WTF. 1 codex for all marines. make it huge .. but one..

Give Orks a firggin Codex.. 10 years.. God damn...

In fact GW just die..
   
Made in us
RogueSangre





The Canadian Gate

They need a new edition of 40k.  Completely new from the ground up.  No more IGOUGO.  And less focus on marines!

Jessica Alba is to hot like Fzorgle is to GW failing at life.
- Phryxis on Slaaneshi psychic powers

Lets forge a narrative! Your aspiring champion makes a wet farting sound, much like when you let go of a filled balloon, as he/she is sent to eternal damnation in the warp for defeating Calgar.
- Forcemajeure 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




Pirate Ship Revenge

I don't know what they can do to fix it for me...
I see a ton of good suggestions in this thread but I'm not sure it would be enough for me to play 40K again...
Maybe the DA codex will do it for me.
Maybe not.

I have nothing useful to add.
http://otzone.proboards34.com/index.cgi>the OT
Welp, that link ain't no good nomore. 
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

So far I haven't left, but I've taken several breaks from a few months to a few years, since I started playing way back in like '93. Each time I stopped it was really just because other hobbies or just work took up too much of my time.

I play with a good bunch of grown up folks (as opposed to hanging out in game stores and doing tournaments) who all very much enjoy playing together in an extremely laid back atmosphere. We all have lives and families so we just play 1 day a month. the game day is something to look forward to just hanging out pushing army men around the table. And I think my gaming group is the #1 reason I still play in the first place and as long as they're all into GW stuff, I'm sure I will be too.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






I want the magic itself back.

Your correct, it used to be a kind of injoke to us players, but even from your replies to your thread, the current trend for GW is really out in left field. I can appreciate that they think of themselves as a heavy hitter, or some sort of diversified company, but reality has now caught up with them, and they are going to be floundering and worrying about a trap of thier own making.

I like Necromunda, 1st edition. I could easily convert any of my miniatures over to the system for small scale skirmish combat, develop a core army, and then if I so felt like it, I could easily combine and mix and match anything I wanted. It had more of a excitement level to it then a full on game of 40K does today.

I liked Space Hulk for the sheer enjoyment of just playing the game. A squad of Termies against the numberless Genestealers and death or Glory at the roll of the dice. It was really intense to pressure yourself against the clock, light up a stormbolter, and scoop up that precious flamer. Now I don't even get to look forward to a even new boxed addition of Spacehulk, Necromunda, Gorkamorka, Mighty armies, Fantasy, any new additions of the core game, or anything even remotly exciting any more.

The personality. Your army, even if you had a standard army was your choice. It wasn't a variation on a theme. You never really knew what you were going to fight next. Even by todays supposed choice, you are confined to a "Standard Templet Construct" list. I know I'm going to kill a commander, I'll be fighting a half dozen different Space Marine armies, see more half painted armies of the month, and watch in horror as the red shirts push product, and not just play it for the game.

I want the magic back.

Being able to give a kid a squad of squats, and a mole morter, and watch him or her go to town on a squad or two of Orks, while you teach the basics and give them a small backstory behind your paintjob, along with giving maybe a team of Space Marines to another and teach them the nuances of a Meltagun, Flamer template, or grenades going off and maybe seeing a story unfold in a local battle as you all go on about the fluke roll, the wrong result of a combat, or the wacky situation that comes up in the games.

I still paint, and am a little better at it, but there is something missing, and everyone knows it. I can see the change in the attitudes of the local game store, as in on a Saturday, the place is almost empty, and you can wait all day if you want as you see a few of them come in, look around and go, or the owner starts pushing more puzzles, candy, bs, and finally starts closing the store a couple of extra days a week, or changes the hours, or finally... doesn't open at all.

I see the same song and dance, and still I bought until I couldn't afford the fifty doller Terminators, overloaded Tyranids, and 40K without codex, basking in its former glory.

Just go back to being a game, relax the damn rules, and stop dictating everything from the boardroom.

I want the magic back.

 




At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




St. George, UT

I've left the game and I'm not sure anything could bring me back. They would have to throw out the whole game system and come up with a smooth balanced and playtested game. They have no clue on balance, the problem is the D6. Just not enough range of different stats, so to make up for it they make special rules for everything. This has proven to be a bad idea, but they can't/won't change it.

Prices need to drop. Period. You can't expect us to pay $500 for a defective product.

See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






Maple Valley, Washington, Holy Terra

I am back. What did bring me back, I wonder? I think I wanted a social life, and I'm a man who likes to game. I got back in with WHFB 6, and then to Mordheim, and then 40K 4. I'm not very satisfied with 40K 4, ruleswise. I'm afraid that I pretty much just play it for the miniatures, which are a lot of fun to collect. I have no intention of stopping any time soon, but I am writing a sort of Necromunda/40K fusion for skirmish games using the regular 40K miniatures.

What would I like to see?

I love how the Epic Armageddon development has harnessed the collaborative power of the internet to create some really great rules. Necrons that are actually interesting! If they could get that sort of collaborative energy into 40K development, it would be great.

I admit that I don't buy many current issues of WD any more. I think I've bought two in the last two years, the one with the deathwatch rules and the one that showed how to convert up Marneus Calgar's Pimpmobile. I think I've bought more back-issues off eBay in that time.

Model prices have always been through the roof. It's funny to hear the same complaints decade after decade. I no longer care; I still buy them faster than I paint them.

I guess I'd like to see 40K grow up a bit, into something more like the current Epic rules (which I haven't had a chance to do more than read through yet). Something more tactically realistic and interesting. It's not like the current 40K rules aren't complicated already. Things like the "torrent of fire" rules and the mixed armour/toughness rules make my head spin to no purpose that I can ascertain. I'll take the crossfire rules and such from Epic over "torrent of fire" any day, thank you very much. They actually add something interesting to the game.

I just realized why I don't care about WHFB 7. Rick Priestley didn't write it. It just doesn't seem "official" to me. Huh. Well, it's as good a reason as any, I guess.

Why is Jervis doing administrative-type stuff now? Get that man back into the design team where he belongs. What's he doing? Long-term strategizing or some crap?

Jes Goodwin is doing a great job, as he has been since before I'd ever heard of lead miniatures. Remember those Skaven he did in the early-mid eighties? Keep Jes Goodwin!

Basically, I see some good work, and I see some crap work, same as ever. The Epic rules are the best they've ever been. The 40K rules aren't doing so hot. Miniatures are all over the map, same as always. You have to take risks to achieve anything great (Terminator Chaplain), and sometimes you fall flat on your face in the process (Chaos Possessed).

I don't really know what can be done about the marine fixation in players... Okay, here's a few ideas:
Don't include marines in the starter set. Fantasy shakes it up with every edition, why not 40K?
Make marines less powerful. This will at least shake off the really competative players.
The rumoured plans of 5 chaos codices means that there will probably be more Marine codices and non-marine ones. This would be a step in the wrong direction.
Unless marine on marine is fine. I mean, Adeptus Titanicus was a fun game, and all it came with was six Warlord Titans... three for each side.

"Calgar hates Tyranids."

Your #1 Fan  
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Newark Ohio

they would need to sincerely woo their vets back, probably can Kirby to show they mean to have a real change in policy, be more freindly and open to their customers and really support all their games and all their armies instead of just the core three and in that core three only really Marines. Tighter rules and erratta to fix things when they are wrong as well as a much better white dwarf magazine that covered all their games would go a long way as well. over the last two years I have been earning alot more disposible income than ever before but none of it is going to GW because they piss me off instead of entertaining me. Really its not rocket science, make a better product, treat your customer better and give them what they want and of course almost every buiseness thats ever went thru a real hard patch knows that sticking a sign on the door that says under new management will often get your customers to give you one more chance to show them you have changed.

   
Made in us
Tinkering Tech-Priest







I would want 3 things.

  1. That White Dwarf would include new trial rules each month, and every army would get something new at least once a month. Players are then allowed to email in results from their play testing or thier opinions . Once a year there will be a White Dwarf Annual with all the rules from that year reprinted as official but now tweaked from player feedback.
  2. Small box set games that retail for $50 to $75 that contain a game based on the 40K Rules set, but that’s also self contained. Think Space Hulk, Gorka Morka, and Necromunda. But set up with full 40K rules. Design these box sets to be intermixed and make each one both fun and a great entry point for new gamers. If they pack enough value into these set, they will sell like hot cakes and allow causal games to get into the game. These would take the place of Kill team and Lunchhammer.
  3. Work with the players to balance the game. Put as much effort as possible into finding a way to get feed back that’s useful. This needs to happen. I don’t think Forums work will, because of Trolls. But studying G.T.s, running polls, reading emails, posting questionnaires, and continuing to refine this process each year. Only once GW really gets a picture of what the players want in a game can they design it.

Check out my painting and Modeling Blog
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/228997.page

 
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

I was just thinking last night how much a new space hulk was needed.

For $75 or so, they could include three sets of BFM genestealers and a unit of termies. Hell they could still sell the older plastic termies that came with the second ed space hulk. Give them a salable use for the older molds.

Simple thin card stock for the hulk halls and a refined rules set for the killteam/spacehulk rules, with the addition of the BFM rulebook.

Even though you can do that right now for free from GW as they have the killteam hulk rules posted, it would be nice to see the st for sale through retailers. Get more interest in the game instead of forcing slave labor to promote it for them.

GW would have a winner there. I would buy it, and I dont even need it! I just like space hulk that much that I would suck in my pride and buy the box from GW.

   
 
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