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2019/01/30 22:48:08
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
N.I.B. wrote: Glorified Infestation Nodes. There you go.
No! no no no! These are much better than Infestation Nodes, much MUCH better. In fact they are really good. REALLY good.
The other half is much better too imo!
I think this is almost directly upwards for GSC.
I agree. The new blip system is pretty freaking cool. Probably the only thing in the new releases that seems well thought out and not a useless option, but it's very well done and will be a load of fun to use.
2019/01/31 20:25:22
Subject: Re:Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
With the new ambush, do you think it would be better to use large or small units of acolytes?
i will try to make 2 brigade detachaments.
One with 6+ units of 10 neophytes with heavy stubbers and grenade launchers, and 3 units of bikes, this detachament will be rusted claw for sure.
The other detachament will have 6+ units of acolytes in ambush, and I'm doubting between twisted helix or four armed emperor.. The +1 S its very interesting but charge with +2 and rerolling charges (clamavus + vigilius) its really good.
2019/02/01 07:02:49
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
So as an Astra Milltarum player I noticed something interesting in the blood brothers rules that could be pretty useful.
"These AM detachments are then known as Brood Brother detachments, and every unit in them that has the <Regiment> or Militarum Tempestus keyword must replace it in every instance with Brood Brothers (if a unit doesn't have either of these keywords it simply gains the Brood Brothers keyword)."
Assuming this is the correct wording. Leads to some interesting combo ideas. This would allow Bullgryns, Ogyrns, and Ratlings to recieve orders. The Taurox Prime becomes usable for all AM models. And while the codex special Orders can't be used the ones from DKoK and EDT can be. Also the Sabre Weapon Platform will now work With Tempestus, DKOK, and Elysians.
So this is kinda silly and might not be worth it but you could load up a Valk With a 10 man Combat Engineer Squad with a Melta bomb on the sarge. Put in an Elysian Platoon Commander in the Valk as well. Zoom the Squad to their target 9" away and Grav-Shute them in. Move the unit up 6" (So they should be just over 3" away) then have the Platoon Comander give them the "Move and Fire" order turning all there weapons to Assault. That would include their Grenade Weapons. So the Squad would then get 20 shotguns, 10 Frag Genades, 10 Krak Grenades, 10 Acid Bombs, and 1 Melta Bomb. Toss in a Sabre weapons Platform to have them hitting on 2+.
Seems like this has some possibilities.
2019/02/01 07:48:14
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
In the event that a silencer sniper rifle causes an unsaved wound to a unit of Rubrics, Scarab Occult Terminators, or Horrors, will it result in the entire unit suffering perils of the warp and the resultant 'psyker explosion' of D3 mortals to all other units in 6" as the entire unit has the PSYKER key word?
2019/02/01 17:20:52
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Another bit of info from the codex, there’s apparently some limitations on taking characters in matched play games. You can only take one of any particular character per detachment. So no 3 kellermorph detachments, you’d need to run the full 3 to spam any of them.
As far as perils on units, they don’t blow up unless the last model in the squad is the one to peril.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/01 17:22:15
2019/02/01 17:38:36
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
In the event that a silencer sniper rifle causes an unsaved wound to a unit of Rubrics, Scarab Occult Terminators, or Horrors, will it result in the entire unit suffering perils of the warp and the resultant 'psyker explosion' of D3 mortals to all other units in 6" as the entire unit has the PSYKER key word?
It suffers perils of the warp like it normally suffers perils of the warp. In most cases, this means one model in the unit will take the damage.
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2019/02/01 17:53:44
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
In the event that a silencer sniper rifle causes an unsaved wound to a unit of Rubrics, Scarab Occult Terminators, or Horrors, will it result in the entire unit suffering perils of the warp and the resultant 'psyker explosion' of D3 mortals to all other units in 6" as the entire unit has the PSYKER key word?
Horrors yes, they are all psykers so they will take a peril and lose D3 models (they won't "explode" unless the last model in the unit is killed). Same deal for GK/warlocks/etc.
Thousand Sons the sergeant is the only one who counts as a psyker, which is why when he perils he insta-pops. That would mean disaster, except that I can just take the sanctus' shot on a model that's not my aspiring sorc, and the unit won't peril because the rubrics aren't psykers.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2019/02/01 18:38:57
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Horrors yes, they are all psykers so they will take a peril and lose D3 models (they won't "explode" unless the last model in the unit is killed). Same deal for GK/warlocks/etc.
If I'm reading the information I have correctly, Horrors don't have the same rules as GK (sanctic squad), which specifically state the last model must die for detonation. Wyrdvanes (Wyrdvanes rule) also have that rule. Thousand Son's and Horrors do not have that rule in their codex, nor their data sheets for each respective unit. Unless this was added as FAQ recently, that is not the case, at all. I know they mentioned something on facebook, however, i dont see it in the codex/battlescribe.
Thousand Sons the sergeant is the only one who counts as a psyker, which is why when he perils he insta-pops. That would mean disaster, except that I can just take the sanctus' shot on a model that's not my aspiring sorc, and the unit won't peril because the rubrics aren't psykers.
Again, going by the data sheets and codex, this is also wrong? Rubric Marines have the Psyker keyword, as does the Sorcerer separately. They are Psykers, they just don't have the ability to cast smite or other spells.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/01 18:39:50
2019/02/01 20:59:03
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Yea unless it was FAQ'd both have the psycher keyword on there datasheet. It's probably the same with grey knights as well. That being said, the rifle must inflict an unsaved wound, and then the unit suffers a perils as well.
So you basically inflict a wound, which kills a model, but the perils also triggers on the unit inflicting d3 more. Not sure how to address the casualties as result of the perils, they do have the psycher keyword so you would assume they explode further.
It must have been FAQ's already. If not it needs to be. How else have perils been resolved in such armies?
The issue is we've never had an ability that causes perils, before, that I can think of.
Typically, the caster (Aspiring Sorcerer) casts a power, failed, and perils. If he died from the perils, he would detonate. After he's dead, they couldn't perils any more because they couldnt cast the powers to get a perils -- despite the remaining rubrics being psykers still.
2019/02/02 01:03:27
Subject: Re:Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Cult of the Four Armed Emperor: While I think this is going to be very popular (rewards 7th edition-ambush heavy lists and has a very strong unique stratagem), I kinda see it being a lot like Hive Fleet Kronos for the Tyranids. Something you take as a small, self-contained detachment for the stratagem and the buff to the specific units it strongly benefits. I don't know how well it will work as a stand-alone trait given that doesn't do anything really for the "anvil" part of the army after turn 1. If it were being run as a stand-alone I'd expect to see the bulk of the army comprised of Brood Brothers for an anvil and all CTFA units deploying underground. The trait has very good synergy with with the Anointed Throng's Insidious Mindwyrm warlord trait, granting +2 to charge rolls on the Aberrants on the turn they arrive or +3 with an accompanying Clamavus. Don't really need to modify the ambush with a stratagem at that point.
Twisted Helix Solid perk for most of the army. If Purstrains were able to benefit it would certainly be an auto-take for them, but even still I can't think of any unit that won't benefit in some fashion from the trait. The strength buff could make Neophyte swarms interesting combined with First to Draw blood:. S4 base, +1 for Icon of the Cult Ascendant, +1 for Might from Beyond -> S6 cultists. It also gives Metamorphs a bit of a bump and Aberrants/Acolytes obviously like it as well. I could see this one making use of either specialist detachment. It doesn't really do much for non-Rockgrinder vehicles, but First to Draw Blood from the Deliverance Broodsurge could be very amusing with S4-base Neophytes or S5 base Acolytes and naturally it likes Aberrants so by extension the Anointed Throng works well.
Relic would be quite amusing on an Abominant. It already has fairly impressive stats, but it basically rivals a Daemon Prince with the Elixir in effect and they are tough enough that they should be able to get a good amount of use out of it before succumbing.
Pauper Princes I think this one is probably going to be ideal for MSU tactics. The reroll ability is probably going to be too damaging with large units but will allow smaller commando squads punch harder than their numbers would suggest. Should be very nice for Rockgrinders assuming they keep their current WS and attacks ratio. Also seems an ideal place to use the Focus of Adoration warlord trait seeing as it activates the cult creed as well.
I think this one will probably do brigades really well since smaller units will get more benefit from the trait than larger ones. It could easily fill its 6 troop selections with 5x strong Acolytes, 3 Fast with Jackals, and 3 Heavy with Rockgrinders, with HQ and Elites filled to taste. Alternatively could make for a good support detachment for one of the more shooty-oriented creeds.
Hivecult This one seems to be good for gunline-leaning armies and mechanized forces (lots of Goliath Trucks, Jackals, and Achillies). Shame it can't apply to Brood Brothers, seeing as the 7th edition codex stressed how much military hardware the cult had. I think this one would work really well with the Deliverance Broodsurge specialist detachment. The Goliaths + Infantry appreciate the freedom to leave combat and still shoot, and the warlord trait and relic from the detachment have some nice synergy (moreso the relic, +1 Ld bubble on units that halve mortal casualties should effectively mean near-immunity to moral coupled with the innately high ld. of the cults and the reroll granted by the Iconward who carries said relic). Also First to Draw blood helps compensate for this creed being more shooting centric and potentially makes large units of Neophytes dangerous.
Bladed Cog Bladed Cog could be another good one for mechanized lists since it gives an extra 6+ save to Goliath vehicles and a back-up save for the Achillies. Invulnerables are nice for the infantry as well, but generally they aren't getting shot at with good AP weaponry so I don't anticipate quite as much utility there outside of melee combat and the characters (Kelermorph and Locus). The ability to move and fire with heavy weaponry on the Neophytes will be very nice for Seismic Cannons since it gives them more control over which firing mode they have available.
I could see this one working well as a stand-alone. It has a wide enough range of units affected and doesn't favor any particular playstyle.
Rusted Claw This one is rather interesting... The armor boost is really nice across the board, but especially for the industrial vehicles who get bumped to a 3+ against the mid-strength high rate of fire guns that normally cause trouble while still having their 6+++ to fall back on against dedicated anti-tank shots. Coupled with the bonuses to bikes and I could see Rusted Claw being very popular for the "anvil" half of the army (especially with Prepared Positions - looking at 3+ save hybrids and 2+ save vehicles on the first turn), probably paired with one of the more ambush-centric creeds to provide the damage output.
As said, these are just my initial thoughts. Will need some time with the codex to get a full feel for how each subfaction plays.
zamerion wrote:With the new ambush, do you think it would be better to use large or small units of acolytes?
I'm leaning towards larger squads in general (10-15) simply because you do want force concentration when they arrive and splitting the units up limits the amount that can actually ambush. Remember, only half the army in points(or power) and unit count can go into reserves so for every Acolyte unit you want to drop you will need another squad or vehicle to sit on the table.
It will also depend on the cult creed as touched on above. I think Pauper Princes for instance will be happy to do smaller squads since it causes an indirect damage boost which means a larger squad will be overkill. Someone like Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor probably not so much since they are going to be very reliant on a good alpha strike to take full advantage of their trait.
Khadorstompy wrote:So as an Astra Milltarum player I noticed something interesting in the blood brothers rules that could be pretty useful.
"These AM detachments are then known as Brood Brother detachments, and every unit in them that has the <Regiment> or Militarum Tempestus keyword must replace it in every instance with Brood Brothers (if a unit doesn't have either of these keywords it simply gains the Brood Brothers keyword)."
Assuming this is the correct wording. Leads to some interesting combo ideas. This would allow Bullgryns, Ogyrns, and Ratlings to recieve orders. The Taurox Prime becomes usable for all AM models. And while the codex special Orders can't be used the ones from DKoK and EDT can be. Also the Sabre Weapon Platform will now work With Tempestus, DKOK, and Elysians.
So this is kinda silly and might not be worth it but you could load up a Valk With a 10 man Combat Engineer Squad with a Melta bomb on the sarge. Put in an Elysian Platoon Commander in the Valk as well. Zoom the Squad to their target 9" away and Grav-Shute them in. Move the unit up 6" (So they should be just over 3" away) then have the Platoon Comander give them the "Move and Fire" order turning all there weapons to Assault. That would include their Grenade Weapons. So the Squad would then get 20 shotguns, 10 Frag Genades, 10 Krak Grenades, 10 Acid Bombs, and 1 Melta Bomb. Toss in a Sabre weapons Platform to have them hitting on 2+.
Seems like this has some possibilities.
I'm not sure if any of the Forge World guard variants would be eligible for Brood Brothers. The old version specifically said that they could not use any "named" regimental doctrines or units (namely characters). I think the leaked version of the rule had that restriction as well, with exception being made for Militarium Tempestus (presumably since Scions are troops and to avoid a rules headache with their loosing their trait if included in an AM detachment).
I can't say anything about the abhumans, but I think the Taurox Prime's transport restrictions were specifically Scion models, not <subfaction> models with the subfaction being Miltarium Tempestus.
Maybe drop the observation in the AM tactics thread for analysis? I'm afraid I don't know the codex especially well beyond a cursory skimming for this thread's primer.
Arkengate wrote: In the event that a silencer sniper rifle causes an unsaved wound to a unit of Rubrics, Scarab Occult Terminators, or Horrors, will it result in the entire unit suffering perils of the warp and the resultant 'psyker explosion' of D3 mortals to all other units in 6" as the entire unit has the PSYKER key word?
Just one model in most cases. The rules for group psykers always include a blurb about the player selecting one model to suffer the effects of a peril in the warp if one should occur. The explosion effect also only triggers if the last model in the unit is killed by perils in the warp.
Admittedly, I'm not sure how the rule interacts with the Aspiring Sorcerer and Rubics/Scarabs since that is the only "psychic squad" that I can think of where only one model is actually a psyker. All of the others (Zoanthropes, Seer Counsel, Horrors, Grey Knights, etc.) have every model as one. One of my brothers has Thousand Sons, so I can check will him and report back tomorrow.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/02/02 01:19:40
2019/02/02 02:06:52
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Except, again, the entire squad are psykers, only one can cast. Secondly, there is no rule in the FAQ or the Codex' saying the last model has to die, only for GK and Wyrdvane.
2019/02/02 03:52:44
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
I’m really liking Bladed cog for a shooting ambush style army. You can drop in a couple units of neophytes with your heavy weapons of choice, ambush a kellermorph alongside, and then scoot a jackal alphas up behind your neophyte blobs. Have the kellermorph use the double tap stratagem, then shoot up some nearby screening infantry. With 10-12 D2 ap -1 shots, you should be able to kill a few mopes. Designate the neophytes’ target with the alphus’ ability to grant them the +1 to hit, and all of a sudden your mining lasers/seismic cannons are hitting on a 3+, rerolling 1s. Great screen clearing potential with all the 3+ auto guns too.
2019/02/02 09:48:41
Subject: Re:Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Ok folks. So all those leaks seem legit and everything has matched the WHC previews so far. So I assume all of the new infos we have are true.
So what are your thoughts and what tactics do you come up with?
Here's my POV:
I painted my army as a slight variation of the Rusted Claw Cult (green chitin instead of blue, mechanicus standard grey for the mining suits instead of ushabti bone), thus I'll ofc run my force as this Cult. I have 70 Neophytes and 20 Acolytes (all painted boooy!). Will run Neos as such:
1x20 w/ Shotguns and Flamers
2x10 w/ ML and GL in Trucks (maybe make them Bladed Cog so that they don't suffer the -1 when the truck moves up for the MLs to get into range)
2x10 w/ GL and LC sitting waaay back so that most anti infantry weapons wont reach them
1x10 w/ Stubbers and GL to zone deepstrikers or bodyguard a character
Jackal Alphus will probably be my Warlord to get the old grudges trait (bladed cog). Use the stratagem to give my Primus, Magus and Patriarch a WT as well. Patriarch will either get -1 dmg or +1 a s. Magus will get -1 to-hit. Primus will get +3" to his bubble.
Give the +1 to save rolls and no-overwatch amulet to the Patriarch. Cast MfB on him. Laugh as my S8 A8 4++ blender rips appart the enemy's warlord/tanks/hopes-and-dreams.
Also pop up with the Primus and hand flamer Acolytes (8ppm!!!), give them re-roll 1s to-wound against that infantry unit and blaze them with 20D6 autohits. Step aside Salamanders and Sisters, we are the real cult of fire!
2019/02/02 12:00:48
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Awww... I had a updated Primer sitting on my wordpad awaiting the release.
Many thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. We made it a full 11 pages longer than the last one and it has been a wonderful journey to this point.
2019/02/02 15:06:17
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Index Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Awww... I had a updated Primer sitting on my wordpad awaiting the release.
Many thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. We made it a full 11 pages longer than the last one and it has been a wonderful journey to this point.
My question to Shuppet in that thread;
Fifty wrote: Strat_N8 updated the Index tactica front page primer post 92 times, most recently on two days ago
Shuppet, do you want the responsibility of doing the same, or would it be better to let Strat_N8 make a new thread instead of this one?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/02 15:16:43
Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.
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