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I did a quick 1850 list that had me wondering:

Avatar

Jain Zar

3x10 Banshees

6x10 Guardians with Brightlance

3x1 Wraithlord with EML/Bright Lance/Flamers

95 models, 60 fearless Guardians, 12 Antitank weapons (Not to bad in escalation or Vs pods either... I think this might be able to put up a reasonable fight and not include any super falcons...

So you're swapping the Air Force builds for Elfzilla?

I think you'd have problems versus SAFH marine builds but you're right it'd do well versus pods, and possibly well versus Tau. I think you'd also have problems with Godzilla Nids, or amazingly hoards of stuff be it Nids, IG, or even Orks amazingly. Course you'll likely never have to play against those kinds of armies anyway.

Dunno how it'd do versus your average Biker/Infiltrating Demonbomb, especially if they loaded out on deamoneets but I guess it could go either way. Necrons would also be a problem, but they always are for Eldar anyway.

...swapping the Air Force builds for Elfzilla...

pretty much, I was thinking the Eldarian Guard, but yea. (I like Elfzilla! better)

..how it'd do versus your average Biker/Infiltrating Demonbomb...Necrons...

Well, I think 30 fleeting banshees could wreck the Demon bombs deployment unit in a phase? Dont you? And necrons hate power weapons, killing  a monolith with this army though... Probably immpossible.

I think this list needs some seers, maybe 5x gumbeez, and some warlocks instead, I think it'd be awful if the wraithlords forgot to fight... but who cares about conceal with fearless units...

I think it'd be a good escalation list, mostly...

Yeah but Banshee's will have problems with Bloodletters (without having Doom) and will really struggle vs Demonettes when delivered right. But I don't have too much experience with the Demon Bomb vs. Eldar so I could be off.

Necrons will probably run wild on you like the Hulkster did on the WWF in the 80's.

I think to be honest. Necrons don't care about Power Weapons when you can't stop the 'Lith or the Veil (and you can't with this list). Plus fleet or no fleet, your Banshee's will be dead before they can hit combat since every piece of AP4 weaponry the Necrons have (and there will be a lot thanks to Immortals & Destroyers being the Necron unit of choice). Plus even if they do hit, without guide they're not going to be too great and with a Lord Nearby they'll get their WBB and Teleport out of CC and into rapid fire range. Against your average 1850 Phalanx with loads of Immortals, I just see pain.

To be honest I think if you're not going to run the Farseer, go with Harlies instead of Banshee's, they're so much better at the same job and the Harlies have so much more going for them to actually see assault.

How about pulling the Banshees for Striking Scorpions with Karandas, and putting warlocks with the guardian squads for conceal, and bumping them up to 20 man squads with Star Cannons instead?

3 Star Cannons with 20 wounds, 3 Bright, lances, 3 EML's, and scorpions to take out troop swarm or indirect fire hiding pie plates?

No, I'm conviced Striking Scorpions are rubbish, I don't think I'd take karandaras over Jain Zar either.

What does 20 Guardians gain? I would play them as 7s instead of 10s in the old game, honestly with fearless, I don't expect to have a staying power problem.

Ultimately, after more consideration, I think this list is maybe a B, a nice guy RTT list, would give the owner a fighting chance, but has enough achilles heel to be fair.

To the general masses, wouldn't you like to play (against) an Eldar list sans all the skimmers? 

struggle vs Demonettes when delivered right...

What? Why? What do daemonettes do? Arent they just a marine with 5+I and A2?

Plus rending.

ah rending beautiful rending. . .

Posted By Augustus on 01/30/2007 2:57 PM

struggle vs Demonettes when delivered right...

What? Why? What do daemonettes do? Arent they just a marine with 5+I and A2?

The Demonettes would go after your MC's first since that's where most of the points are and it's easiest for them to take down.  VS. Banshee's (I think) you'd strike Simo (they're I4 and give -1 to your I), have the same number of attacks (but will likely be charging due to the demon bomb), and are S4 with rending, and they don't care about your power weapons. 

I mean yeah, I'd much rather play against this than the Eldar Air Force crap but if you're taking this to a tournament I'm just expecting to play against unfun army builds at a tournament anyway.

Seriously if you're going to run an army like this I think it'd be almost twice as good if you ran Harlies instead of Banshee's.  It'd make things so much better for the kind of army you're trying to make here.

I was looking at something similar to this a couple of weeks ago, but using vibrocannons and harlequins. The Vibros get round some Los issues Eldar infantry face while the harlequins' veil makes them superior as non-mech infantry for me.

You should be ok vs. demon bombs.

The demons have to come from somewhere, and you line up some guardians between their icons and your good units. Create some space so they can't consolidate into fresh troops.

Then if they wipe out the guardians (good chance of that) you shoot them before charging, if not, you still charge them.

You should do this against any assault armies like tyranids. Have a cheap screen of guardians that they assault, then counter assault with your banshees.

And since banshees always go first, they are great at wiping out almost anything. Especially when you have 10 on the charge.

The Banshee masks give them the edge over T3 daemonettes, even with the invulnerable. The banshees themselves die frighteningly fast to shooting, which is the biggest factor they give up to harlies.

It's a neat change of pace list.  Any reason it's 1850 instead of this year's GT standard 1750?

Uh no reason really.

Guess that's what I'm used to, plus I think local stuff is still 1850 here at least.

I REALLY want to paint some harlequins, maybe I will try that out.  I'll be buying a unit when they come out for sure.

Are you seriously proposing to walk 30 T3 4+ save assault troops over the cratered surface of the 41st millenium? I'm sorry, but any shooty army worth its salt is going to crush this list in 4 turns flat. Case in point: mauleed marines. The tourney standard by which all other things are measured. Vulnerability to assult cannons? check. Fragile shooty core troops? check. Moderate speed assault troops with poor saves and low toughness? Check. The only way to play without lots of vehicles is to play in power (or termie) armor. Look at all of the power (non-meq) builds out there: mechanized guard, mech tau mech eldar, godzilla, mech sisters, notice that none of these have large amounts of foot based assault elements and the shooting elements are relatively mobile. A valiant effort, but one doomed to faliure.
cheers

I've played against a similar list... with IRON WARRIORS.

Actually, it works like this... they rush forwards, and if you kill the guardians, you eat 30 howling banshees in the face.  If you kill the banshees, you eat 120 shuriken catapult shots to the face.  That's 30 howling banshees. 

Even in my army where it has an equivalent 14 heavy bolters, it will take at least 2 turns to mow them all down... (average T3 Sv4 kills on 14 heavy bolters = 23.  But that's sacrificing 6 AT shots off the Oblits - and you might want to kill those Wraithlords)

It's that simple.

The Avatar is hunkering behind 2-3 wraithlords or some-such.  You literally HAVE to waste AT shots at that trio, since the fearless aura that the Avatar causes is quite literally slowed...

I was only able to pull a minor win against a similar eldar army to what Augustus is planning and they didn't have 30 aspects as the game was 1700 points.  (He sprung for spear coceal warlocks, scatterlaser platforms and scorps instead).

The unbreaking remnant squads will REALLY cut down on your VP totals.

A valiant effort, but one doomed to faliure.

Ya, maybe so, thats what I think too when I come to my senses...  But come on, wouldnt you like to give it a try? I mean the hopeful part of me, would really savor a win with a force like this. besides 30 banshees, I put them in the list, with volume as a compensation for fragility, I would expect to loose at least an entire unit, trying to get there, smart use of terrain would be vital!  The other 2 would probably not be unscathed either, and probably I would expect to loose all 3 in most games after assault crazyness...

Meh, maybe I'll go back to the drawing board... Now Vibrocannons! there's a good idea...

I would replace many of the guardian bright lances weith scatter lasers, they will do better against zilla, MEq and BS3 doesnt hurt so much. Wraithlords are the best places for bright lances. You ought to do ok with just six bright lances.

I know you dont like scorpions, but three units of Banshees is overspecialised, swap one out for Harlequins

Vibro cannons could make a list like this work...Again, the above was just a knee-jerk reaction; this list has good points, but I think it would work like the bugs list does...or doesn't depending.

What might help this army out is a couple of things...

I find that when you can out-shoot someone they have to come to you, and then that is where the banshees shine. If you can find a way to ratchet up the firepower so that you can out shoot most of the shooty armies out there, you will be in great shape. That might mean you drop a banshee squad to add some firepower.

Anther concept that might make this work is target priority. If you take units that can't be ignored, they will waste their firepower on them. If you are walking 4 MC at their front lines and when they get into combat, that means trouble.

I would also like to say that killing 30 fleet banshees is very hard. Most people tool out for anti-marine firepower, so there is a ton of las/plas. But the heavy bolter (an the use of even the bolter) is a lost art. And since most heavy weapons are squad based, that means either shooting at the Wraithlords, or the infantry.

I recommend against vibrocannon, they are T3 two wound artillery models that you cannot screen. 40K field artillery must be either indirect fire or left off the table.

It doesnt matter how good vibrocannon are or may be, they die to small arms fire on turn 1.

If you play at a place--as I do--that uses either the RAW or the YakFAQ, then vibrocannons are indirect. Or rather, they ignore LoS and targeting restrictions.

Yes, Flavius is being overly cautious, a strict reading of the vibrocannon rules stipulates that you draw a 36 inch line from 1 gun and everything along that line gets D6 hits at S3+(Number of guns). 

While I agree that they are silly little week T3 models I would never play them out in the open, I would hide them behind some cover, preferable trees or a building, and then blast 36 inch arcs through the board all game long. 

They're actually a good unit that has been overlooked becasue they don require LOS. Flavius actually tautght me this.

Also I have never trusted S6/7 and relying on light vehicles as targets.  I do have respect for the scatter laser, but comments have been made that the scatter laser is better vs TMCs, vs AV10 etc.  To this I say, but what about everything else? Also Id rather have a 2+ wound on a carnifex, than 4 tries for a 4 plus wound and then for him to fail a 2 plus save, no way a scatter laser is better than a BL vs. TMCs.  Also vs AV10, I'd rather hit one dead, then need a bunch of 4s, besides horde killing is for the 30 banshees, and the 3 wraithlords to deal with, not the heavy weapons, they are suppose to be in the back, sniping high price stuff with lances, and being all fearless and VP denial style.

I think Id change the list like this:

Avatar

Jain Zar

3x10 banshees

5x10 guardians with BL warlocks (in as many squads as fit)

2x Wraithlords EML BL 2FLMRS

1x3 Vibrocannons

(need to check points, I think it fits into 1850...)

??? Still no vehicles, better?  Also on theme, wouldn't this be sweet, if it was all female Eldar? I could get the guardian female breastplates, or use Dark Elf Breastplates out of the fantasy line for conversions, and make a big sister Eldar army? Craft World Amazonia?

Vibro's are effective with a Avatar around. Put them at max range in cover within 12 of the Avatar. They last most of the game and automatically glance vehicles. Great way to keep skimmers and vehicles stunnd or shaken thru out the game. Also shots that do hit are randomized between the crew and artillery pieces. Opponents will quickly try to make them a target priority after having played against them. BL are great but I would also mix up your gaurdian squads and add in a few Scat. lasers. In my experience they usually net better results against skimmer heavy lists. Your list is somewhat similiar to the one I run but I go more shooty with less assault elements.

After a game using Escalation, I found the ugly side of Wraithsight. Wraithlord did not come into play until turn 4, then I rolled a 1 on turns 5 and 6. The game ended on turn 6 and my Wraithlord did nothing.

Point being, while Jain Zar seems cool ( I actually want to try her out), I think a Farseer would suit your needs better.

You're running 8 Brightlances in the list. From everyone's opinion, I've not seen this done. If you run it, let us know. Popular opinion says it's too expensive. In my own list, I run 1 with my EML/BL toting Wraithlord.

I think the list has merit, but it really hinges with the Avatar, which is another reason to have a Farseer with Fortune.