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Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Minneapolis, MN

Here is my first attempt at a dedicated Imperial Guard cityfight list.

Imperial Guard Cityfight List

1500pts

  Doctrines: Iron Discipline, Rough Riders, Drop Troops, Close Order Drill, Light Infantry

  HQ

1.  Heroic Senior Officer w/power sword, las pistol, iron discipline

     Standard Bearer, Mortar Team 151pts

     A. 3 heavy bolter Fire Support squad 80pts

  Elites

1. 5 Vets w/ 3 plasma guns 75pts

  2. 5 Vets w/ 3 plasma guns 75pts

  3. 5 Vets w/ 3 plasma guns 75pts

  Troops

1. Junior Officer w/ iron discipline, las pistol, c.c.w

    2 melta guns 65pts

    A. Infantry Squad w/ flamer 66pts

    B. Infantry Squad w/ flamer 66pts

    C. 5 man Remnant Squad w/ flamer 36pts

  2. Junior Officer w/ iron discipline, las pistol, c.c.w

    2 melta guns 65pts

    A. Infantry Squad w/ flamer 66pts

    B. Infantry Squad w/ flamer 66pts

    C. 5 man Remnant Squad w/ flamer 36pts

  Fast Attack

1. Rough Rider Veteran Sergeant w/hunting lance, power weapon

   9 Rough Riders w/lances 121pts

  2. Rough Rider Veteran Sergeant w/hunting lance

   9 Rough Riders w/lances 116pts

  Heavy Support

1. Leman Russ Demolisher w/smoke launchers, track guards, rough terrain modification, 3 heavy bolters, improved comms 205pts

  2. Leman Russ Demolisher w/smoke launchers, track guards, rough terrain modification, 3 heavy bolters 185pts

The idea is to use improved comms with a preliminary bombardment to stun the enemy and bust up their buildings.  The HQ and Fire Support hold onto home base.  The two platoons, Demolishers, and Rough Riders advance on the easily contestable buildings with the command sections and Rough Riders acting as a reserve.  The front line troops advance and the Demolishers use siege shells to knock down the occupied buildings and the infantry pounce on the entangled survivors.  If they meet up with something they can't handle or that can take out the tanks.  The the Rough Riders can either sally forth and try to hit the offending building or counter-attack the enemy assault troopers that are attacking the platoons.  The two melta command section is there to hit any dreads or enemy tanks that come too close.  The Vets are a wild card that can be played as an additional counter-attack, deep strike, infiltrate or sewer attack depending on the mission and how my strategems are prioritized.

What is lacking in this list and what are the best ways to rectify those problems?


The 21st century will have a number of great cities. You’ll choose between cities of great population density and those that are like series of islands in the forest. - Bernard Tschumi 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Alexandria, VA

vets w/ plasma x 3 are 75 pts. you have to pay 13 for the vet.srg.

I'd say hvy weapons are lacking, but I've never played COD so I don't know how well they play. Your flamers will be good negating cover saves though.
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




Those Rough Rider squads are huge and puts almost 250 points of your army (a sixth) in one-hit suicide squads; 10 men and a power weapon vet doesn't help the squad make much impact in hand to hand past that initial lance charge. If you're set on using the Riders (well I can't blame you, they are my favourite thing in the Guard list) I would look at breaking one squad into two 5-man strike units and keep them for counter assaults. 110 points for two squads with lances scares people out of dropping dreads behind your lines and can hurt their sewer rats flank charge.  Forget about the Power Weapon vets too; it seems like a good idea but I reckon it's wasted points even with 10 men - RRs just don't have the staying power in hand to hand.

Put some heavy bolters on your infantry squads too; sure flamers are great in COD, but its also nice to have the option of throwing a lot of dice at the enemy should you chose to; if you're facing Tyranids this list is in real trouble, coz once you're in Flamer range, you're already in Genestealer range.

   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Ahh, COD Guard. Be prepared to forget everything you thought you knew about imperial guard.

1)Rough Riders are not that great, sure they can be used to dash over to an uncaptured building, but they suffer greatly in COD. The fact that 9 out of 10 times they are charging units in cover means that their t3 ws3 bodies will not be standing when they finally get to strike last
2)Ogryn are a lot better buy. Sure they still die like flies to powerfists, but the flip side is that they will probably get into close combat with all the cover around. Just keep them away from the termie command squads
3)Plasma is no longer the king, cover saves abound, and when you get right to it, there is not that much difference between a wounding a marine with a krak grenade or a plasma gun. Then they get a 3+ or 4+ save. Not to say that plasma does not still have its place, just that this enviroment it is not at as overwhelming an advantage.
4)Guard still suck in hand to hand, and now they suck when shooting as well. Try and fit in as many heavy bolters as you can. Flamer squads, well they are still just eh.
5) drop troops and infiltration are no longer free, (got to spend a stratigum) So that limits the effectivenes of small vet squads and suicide command squads.
6)Prelim bombardment and improved comms rock.
   
Made in us
40kenthus






Chicago, IL

To add on to Foil's points - unless you want to take the siege shell upgrade for the demolishers, go with Hell Hounds instead. At two thirds the price, you get about the same template coverage. ST6 is plenty to wound MEQ and their going to get a cover save, so the difference in AP is small. On top of that, if you play vs non-MEQ - getting to negate both the cover and armor save is just too good.

Terrain, Modeling and More... Chicago Terrain Factory
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




For COD I like to kit most of my infantry as fire support. Six to ten units of guard with a heavy bolter, light infantry and camo cloaks can be very nasty when spread out a bit to cover several fire lanes. My platoon hqs are usually napalm suicide squads with 4 flamers and a power weapon. I find the best reult is to keep them close to the fire supports as counter charge units. My colonel usually sits back with a standard to give his superior leadership to the boys. I think guard can be very good in city fight for the added survivabilty that cover saves add combined with the multitude of heavy weapons available and the ability to infiltrate or deepstrike an entire army. The vets are a bit of a waste, as the plasmaguns have a pretty good chance of vaping 2-4 expensive 20 pt guardsmen and you need to use a doctrine point to get more than one unit. What is the point of giving them the light infantry doctrine if you're not paying for it? Just because COD requires you use a strategem to use it doesn't mean it no longer costs 10pts per infantry unit. I don't know how fearsome those demolishers are going to be with plenty of cover. I'd stick with one, but thats just me. I'd never use rough riders in a guard list despite how kool they are. Just too squishy for what they can do and what they cost. Its too bad they never gave us guard bikers, that would be nice. Damn marines get 3 biker units.
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Minneapolis, MN

I've played a few COD games with IG and have a few conclusion that I've based my army list on.

1.  To win, IG need to be moving forward.   There is no way around this.  In 4 out of the five missions , the goal is to hold ruins.  The problem is that IG suck at this.  Berzerkers, Black Templars, and Tyranids all can move quickly through cover and rock in hand to hand.  The only answer I've had to all of this is to use preliminary bombardment on their buildings and then try to obliterate the damaged buildings with my demolishers once they are full of enemies.  Done right, this can net solid amounts of casualties and an extra turn of shooting.  Done wrong, the Demolisher ends up a smoking wreck surrounded by dead bodies.

2.  Its easy to spend too many points on vehicles and they can get bottled up pretty badly if the lead tank gets zapped.   I like the Demolishers because they are tough and can blast apart buildings, but the Hellhounds do inflict more casualties.  Its a toss up, but either way they both seem to work best in pairs.  One Demolisher can't always wreck a building, two makes the odds a lot more likely. Plus, when they target buildings they can hit more troops because the template doesn't need to be centered on a trooper.  The other list I've been thinking about is using 3 Griffons and three Hellhounds supported by mobs of meat shields with melta guns.

3. I've used Rough Riders in COD a few times before and have been highly happy with the results.  There are a few reasons why I prefer the full 10 man squads over the 5 man counter-attack squads.  First of all, they can actually win assaults against serious close combat specialists and wipe them out.  Nothing else in the IG army can do this.  They can't dig troops out of buildings very well, but if the rest of the force can grab the good real estate, then the Rough Riders are quick enough to pounce on enemies crossing open spaces.  As you mentioned Foil, they are a deterrent, which buys me more time to shoot before I send my platoon forward.

4. Infantry need to be either in good position with a lot of heavy weapons, or running forward.  At 66pts a pop the infantry squads are very expendable and mainly are used for rapid firing at entangled enemies or eating a charge so the Rough Riders can join the fun at initiative 5.  I've also considered a light infantry list with infiltrating heavy weapon squads which would be useful for positioning guns to cover the key approaches.  My problem with this is that it is usually still relatively easy for the enemy to dodge their fire, which makes them a waste of points. This is a tactical area that interests me.  How do you combine your infantry and heavy weapons in COD?

Thanks for all the feedback.  I particularly appreciate the comments regarding the vets and the lack of heavy weapons.  I'll probably drop the vets from the list in favor of more heavy weapons with light infantry.  In the meantime, I'd love to see some lists you've all cooked up for COD

The 21st century will have a number of great cities. You’ll choose between cities of great population density and those that are like series of islands in the forest. - Bernard Tschumi 
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Minneapolis, MN

Imperial Guard Cityfight List

1500pts

  Doctrines: Iron Discipline, Rough Riders, Drop Troops, Close Order Drill, Light Infantry

  HQ

1.  Heroic Senior Officer w/c.c.w, las pistol, iron discipline

     Standard Bearer 141pts

     A. 3 heavy bolter Fire Support squad, light infantry 90pts

     B. 3 Lascannon Anti-tank squad, light infantry 115pts

     C. Sentinal w/lascannon, smoke launchers 58pts

  Troops

1. Junior Officer w/ iron discipline, las pistol, c.c.w

    2 melta guns 65pts

    A. Infantry Squad w/ flamer 66pts

    B. Infantry Squad w/ flamer 66pts

    C. 5 man Remnant Squad w/ flamer 36pts

  2. Junior Officer w/ iron discipline, las pistol, c.c.w

    2 melta guns 65pts

    A. Infantry Squad w/ flamer 66pts

    B. Infantry Squad w/ flamer 66pts

    C. 5 man Remnant Squad w/ flamer 36pts

  Fast Attack

1. 5 Rough Riders w/ Lances 55pts

  2. 5 Rough Riders w/ Lances 55pts

  3. Hellhound w/heavy stubber, smoke launchers 130pts

  Heavy Support

1. Leman Russ Demolisher w/ improved comms, smoke launchers, track guards, rough terrain modification, 3 heavy bolters 205pts

  2. Leman Russ Demolisher w/smoke launchers, track guards, rough terrain modification, 3 heavy bolters 185pts

Ok, Here is another varient with a bit more firepower and a hellhound.  How do the changes look?


The 21st century will have a number of great cities. You’ll choose between cities of great population density and those that are like series of islands in the forest. - Bernard Tschumi 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




It looks good. Plenty of firepower to even the playing field. It still looks a bit short of bodies to me, but thats just my preference for as much infantry as I can pack into a list. The sentinal is a good addition and hellhounds are beautiful in COD. I wouldn't trust those rough riders since a lot of cc will be charging into buildings or being charged, but I mentioned that b4 and its largely MHO. The one thing I will add though is that rough riders only get the initiative and strength when charging. I'm not sure whether this is relevant, because I can't seem to find the answer in the rulebook and its too late to call the trollz. Anyway, my understanding of charging is that once a combat is commenced, any other unit joining the same combat doesn't get any charg bonuses, i.e. exra attack and st and i bonuses. It this is incorrect please let me know. That undertsanding of mine combined with the fact that most cc will be clearing enemies out of buildings means that to me the one use lances just aren't worth it. I know its sort of beating a dead horse, but I though I'd explain why I don't like to use them.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




After the rant I figured I'd better put up or shut up so heres my list for COD.

Doctrines: light infantry, close order drill, heavy weapon teams, iron disipline, and camo cloaks.

HQ

Heroic senior officer - standard bearer, light infantry, camo and iron dicipline 106

1 Fire Support squad - 3 Heavy bolters, camo and light infantry

1 Fire Support squad - 3 Heavy bolters, camo and light infantry

Troops

Junior officer - power weapon, 4 flamers, light infantry and camo 89

10 Guard - 1 Heavy bolter and light infantry 80

10 Guard - 1 Heavy bolter and light infantry 80

10 Guard - 1 Heavy bolter and light infantry 80

10 Guard - 1 Heavy bolter and light infantry 80

Junior officer - power weapon, 4 flamers, light infantry and camo 89

10 Guard - 1 Heavy bolter and light infantry 80

10 Guard - 1 Heavy bolter and light infantry 80

10 Guard - 1 Heavy bolter and light infantry 80

10 Guard - 1 Heavy bolter and light infantry 80

Fast

1 Sentinel - lascannon 55

Heavy

1 Basilisk - Indirect fire 125

2 Fire Support squads - 3 Heavy bolters, camo and light infantry 200

Total 1504
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Minneapolis, MN

You list certainly has an impressive amount of dakka, but it seems woefully lacking in anti-tank.  The light infantry thing seems like it could be a good solution to the inability to get heavy weapons in the right spot, but one thing that is always a concern is how to use the strategems.  In your case, I imagine infiltrate is at the top of the list.  Is bulding destruction a sensible option for a guard player?  The only reason why it seems sound to me is that it entangles the troops inside.  This is a really good way to trap the nastiest enemy units and put as much fire onto them as possible.  One consideration, that some here have pointed out is that each unit should be able to put out a good amount of dakka, but to go along with that be able to move forward.  So is heavy bolter/flamer the best combo for infantry squads, with some remnants attached?

The 21st century will have a number of great cities. You’ll choose between cities of great population density and those that are like series of islands in the forest. - Bernard Tschumi 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Alexandria, VA

with SOOOOO many heavy bolters, I see it as being quite immposible for a tank to hide rear armor for the entire game. However, it could be possible, so dropping a flamer from each PHQ could turn a heavy bolter into an autocannon, which would help with higher strength dakka.
   
 
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