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I've heard all of the complaints that the Deathwing have been nerfed and rendered unplayable with the new DA codex, but I've not heard much about the Ravenwing.  What situation have they fallen into?  I've always liked the Land Speeder model, and now that you can make the Tornado and Typhoon variants in plastic with the Ravenwing sprue, I'm once again considering a Speeder-heavy Ravenwing force.  Any thoughts on the matter?

I run a similiar list now but I use the generic list with the appropriate traits. It does very well for me. If the Ravenwing list can out perform the one I use now I will give it a go but as it stands I think you can build a better one using the generic dex. The biggest drawback I can see is that I would lose my veteren bike squad with two melta's and combi melta with tank hunter. I already run three Tornado's as fast attack. I also like having Fury and Lib in my current force. As I understand it Libs in DA don't get Fury or Fear but I can't confirm until I see the new dex. The biggest benefits of DA that seem apparent are the Master options and always starting your bikes on the table but with the mobility of bikes that usually isn't a huge factor any way. Do Ravenwing still retain skilled rider as all my units currently have this also.

Well Ghaz I was having similar thoughts.  I already have 9 Tyhpoons painted, and they are superb.  Here is the problem with the ravenwing:

Army strutucre.

Land Speeder Typhoons don't come in 3s anymore.  They come attached to bikes in ravenwing squadrons.  I don't know if your going to be able to split your fire or what, and I have no idea how a vehicle like that is going to function when attached to a squad of basically infantry (bikes) but that is what I heard is in the codex. I think the fast attack choice for exclusively speeders is a trio of 1-3 basic one weapon variants, with at most 1 tyfoon upgrade.  So the bad news is:

Ravenwing is as nerfed as the deathwing, probably don't do it.

Unless Im wrong on the structure. (which would be great!) I want to see the final rules on the flying plasma cannon guy though, that seems cute.

My understanding is that the new Ravenwing squads basically allow you to purchase a 6 man bike squad and a speeder as a single FOC choice but that they would then work as seperate units once deployed.

I have yet to see the dex, but that's my impression from the rumor mill.

 

If true, the only drawback here is that if you want to field more than 3 fast attack choices, you must first max out a bike squad.

Now if taking the MoRW allows you to take these same squads as troop choices, then you have the potential to field 9 solo speeders if you have enough bikes. And, IMO, solo speeders are the only way to field them.

Looking at the codex, this is what I can confirm about the new Ravenwing.

1) Taking the master of the Ravenwing does indeed make Ravenwing Support Squads as troops.

2) A Ravenwing Support Squad starts with three bikes, you can then upgrade to 6 Bikes, 1 Attack Bike, and a Land Speeder. You have to have 6 bikes in order to field a Land Speeder. You get a Vet in the Bike Squad and access to two special weapons.

3) Combat sqauds for this unit works as such. You can split the bikes into 2 units of three, the attack bike can be a seperate unit. The Land Speeder can be a seperate unit.

4) You no longer loose access to the rest of the list, so you can still field Deathwing, Tacticals, Etc.

5) Land Speeder Squadrons can now be 5 strong, but only one of them can have an assault cannon. Any number of them can have a Multimelta for cheap. You can mix and match weapons unlike C:SM.

So at 1750 from memory you can run the following (note I'm not sure what type of speeder is allowed in the ravenwing squads, pretty sure its a tornado)

HQ
MotRW -- 205ish (Speeder seems to be the better choice, as the jetbike is apparently not an IC and will get smaked pretty easily)

Troops
6 bikes: 2x MG, MM attack bike, Tornado -- 390

6 bikes: 2x MG, MM attack bike, Tornado -- 390

6 bikes: 2x MG, MM attack bike, Tornado -- 390

FA
Tornado -- 85

Tornado -- 85

Tornado -- 85

1630

Leaves points for powefists, a bike IC or similair. Or you could drop 2 attack bikes and add another 6 man bike squad.
Overall I think Ravenwing got a bit of a nerf. Fearless (as much a good thing as it is a bad thing for 3 man squads), scouting bikes and a beefed up MotRW is the only real bonus that they got. In return they lost speeders as troops (well without paying 15 points extra and requring 220 points of bikes), ability to take lots of assault cannon toting speeders and the jink save. Not sure they're that much worse then before but I don't see them as better.

the only consolation is being able to mix Ravenwing with other stuff like predators and terminators. Could be interesting running the theorized wingbomb (scouting bikes delivering 1/2 your terminators on turn 1).

It looks like a fun list, actually. Will die in droves, but fun nonetheless.

It's a fast army with not enough assault to be assaulty and not enough guns to be shooty (3 MMs, 7 ACs and 7 HBs are not 'shooty'). And not enough bodies, period (what is that, 28 figs?).

But, it does have some armor-punching/TMC punching, some turbo-boosting, they're a little tougher than normal troops, and the LSs are fast, so it does have some durability and punch. Squeeze a chaplain in there to ride with one squad as a 'dedicated' assault squad, maybe?

I could see someone pulling some wins and some ties with that list, but I doubt it'll be top-tier. Definitely fun, though.

EDIT (fixed some typos, tried to unsnarky some unintentional snarkiness).   

not only that but you can now add an apothecary once you use the motr
that would help bikes stay alive much longer!!!!

woo hoo got my advanced copy today im loving it

and for the love of god stop saying the deathwing is unplayable... my god you act as if the no 2 assault cannon rule kills your army use some tactics for god's sake

Posted By The Drop Zone on 02/09/2007 9:55 PM
use some tactics for god's sake

Because lets face it, no one does.  Oh wait.

Besides which guys, don't you think its fun to be outnumbered (and now outgunned) 3 to 1!  It makes every game you do win with DW that much more rewarding! (1 in 100 games...against 10 year olds...and only if the dice screw him)  And when they do win you can just tell him his army is cheesy and bomb him on comp. (it has a plasma cannon? cheap!) Because if their list beat yours their obviously power gamers who are desperate to win at all costs, while you are obviously interested in enjoying a relaxing game with a balanced, 'fair' army that requires 'tactics' to win with. (unlike these mofangled tournament armies that just play themselves without any thinking whatsoever, like pods, mech eldar, and godzilla nids)

god does it piss me off when people say that

I remember so much *female dog*ing when the Eldar codex rumors where coming out.

"I'm going to sell my enitre army on ebay. Luckily there'll be a 13 year old boy out there to buy it from me." - I remember one Dakka poster saying, don't ask me who tho.

Whatever, I don't care - wait till you have the Codex in your hands and you are combing through it before you make any comments on it. As a FORMER DA [stopped playing them a while ago] player I'm AM going to wait to *female dog*. Well I still have my Mech Tau and Foot Eldar to fall back on. But hey, die Zillanids - I get free bolt pistols. FACE!

Posted By The Drop Zone on 02/09/2007 9:55 PM
not only that but you can now add an apothecary once you use the motr
that would help bikes stay alive much longer!!!!

woo hoo got my advanced copy today im loving it

and for the love of god stop saying the deathwing is unplayable... my god you act as if the no 2 assault cannon rule kills your army use some tactics for god's sake

How the H*** did this RAVENWING thread become a thread about people complaining about Deathwing? Oh, that would be because you brought it up.

Please, you're entitled to complain about kvetchers all you want, but keep it on topic people.   

EDIT: And because I'm feeling constructive, I posted a Deathwing viability thread in the tactics forum, linking a whole tactics thread from Adeptus Windy City, written by my buddy and Deathwing player supreme Grand_Preceptor. You want to talk Deathwing? Go there, my sons!  

Posted By IntoTheRain on 02/09/2007 10:39 PM

Posted By The Drop Zone on 02/09/2007 9:55 PM
use some tactics for god's sake

god does it piss me off when people say that

I could not agree more.

Posted By IntoTheRain on 02/09/2007 10:39 PM

god does it piss me off when people say that

I agree. I wish some people would get it through their skulls that some things do actually suck, and some lists are actually broken and don't work properly. Plus, on a more ironic note, how do we use some tactics when making our lists and trying to work out our armies? Tactics happen during a game, and we can't use them until we're playing...

BYE

no what pisses me off is this type of sentiment on here

"""I've heard all of the complaints that the Deathwing have been nerfed and rendered unplayable with the new DA codex"""

alot of these comments have ben made by people based on rumor and no real fact

after reading the codex it isnt the end of the dw .. maybe as they played it but times change, and people hate change

the fact that i said omg you must use tactics now isntead of relying on the almighty term unit with 2 heavy weapons.. god forgive me

heresy i should be expunged from the sacred rolls

and yes i stand by it.. use some tactics for a change the majority of people i see play on a daily basis use the im a space marine temrinator why dont i win all the time whine and im sick of it

new rules require new tactics and people generally dont know what that is thus i made the comment

i actually say read the codex before you make an ill informed foolish comment like the dw are now unplayable...then dont play them if you feel that way but to make that statement shows a lack of real game mechanics and tactical choice

fair enough?

Posted By The Drop Zone on 02/10/2007 8:00 PM
no what pisses me off is this type of sentiment on here

"""I've heard all of the complaints that the Deathwing have been nerfed and rendered unplayable with the new DA codex"""...

i actually say read the codex before you make an ill informed foolish comment like the dw are now unplayable...then dont play them if you feel that way but to make that statement shows a lack of real game mechanics and tactical choice

fair enough?

Sure. Fine. Why not? Now how about some Ravenwing comments/ideas?   

syr8766, if we need to see the Codex before we can definetively comment on the value o0f Deathwing the same goes for Ravenwing.

I expunge my sacred rolls daily. They just keep coming back.

i can since i have gone through the dex

-pure deathwing=handicapped but still doable

-pure ravenwing-innnefective for its points costs. little more than overpriced, under-gunned scouts

 

expect to see lots of ravenwing/deathwing combo armies

Posted By Orlanth on 02/11/2007 6:51 AM
syr8766, if we need to see the Codex before we can definetively comment on the value o0f Deathwing the same goes for Ravenwing.

Hey, I'm just trying to keep us all on topic here.

Mughi: interesting, as was your other comment in the deathwing thread.    

DropZone...

If you are going to whine and troll, at least get a new handle or take the link about your store out of your sig! You are totally not helping yourself out here.