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So,
why don't you see more Lictors and Regeneration (on carnifex) on the table these days? They were the 2nd Ed kings of th hill, so what is up now? What is their flaw?

It seems to me that a Lictor squad is a good use of an elite slot when compared to raveners in a Nidzilla list, and it seems like Regen, while expensive, doubles the effectiveness of the MCs that you do take.

both are tremendously overpriced and ineffective on the table. with t4, 2 wounds, (and even back in 3rd with 3) and a 5+ save in h2h, lictors tend to die, even to guard squads, in a round of combat in all but the rarest of cirumstances. their rules, susceptability to synapse.

regeneration only works on a 6+ for 30 points - hardly a doubling of effectivenessa

Lictors do suck arse but I think regen is not been used properly.

- Greenie

Posted By der Wiskinator on 02/22/2007 1:11 PM
So,
why don't you see more Lictors and Regeneration (on carnifex) on the table these days? They were the 2nd Ed kings of th hill, so what is up now? What is their flaw?

It seems to me that a Lictor squad is a good use of an elite slot when compared to raveners in a Nidzilla list, and it seems like Regen, while expensive, doubles the effectiveness of the MCs that you do take.

Lictors cost too much, period. They do have their uses, but at 80 points they are really only good for secondary roles in the game, certainly not for killing much of anything.


Regeneration is only really good if you give it to all of your Heavy Support Carnifexes, otherwise an opponent is just going to shoot the ones that don't have it and leave the Regenerative one alive.

So, if you give it all of your HS Carnifexes, we're talking about an extra 60-90 points (depending on whether you have two or three) that could be spent elsewhere in the army.

But the real problem is that people tend to focus their shooting on a single Carnifex until it's dead (which they should). That means you'll often lose a single carnifex in one to two turns. That gives you (at most) one round to regenerate the 2-3 wounds the Carnifex has suffered. When needing 'sixes' to do so, you stand a very real chance of not managing to regenerate any wounds, and the Carnifex then gets dropped the next turn anyway.

So basically you're paying a very high points cost for something that can be rendered nearly useless by an opponent in two ways:

1) They can not shoot at a Carnifex that has it.
2) They can concentrate their fire and kill the Carnifex in one turn.


So I'm not saying that Regenerate can't be useful in certain situations (because it can), but at 30 points a pop I'd rather use those points to buy other Tyranid units, personally.

Posted By der Wiskinator on 02/22/2007 1:11 PM
So,
why don't you see more Lictors and Regeneration (on carnifex) on the table these days? They were the 2nd Ed kings of th hill, so what is up now? What is their flaw?

It seems to me that a Lictor squad is a good use of an elite slot when compared to raveners in a Nidzilla list, and it seems like Regen, while expensive, doubles the effectiveness of the MCs that you do take.

Whilst I like lictors, I think that is a bad analogy, Ravenors are fast choice, which is not a slot that is taken up by the MCs in a nidzilla list, so they become an almost obvious choice.

If regen doubled the fex effectiveness it would probably be a 'must have' morph. However, it doesn't come close to doubling effectiveness. It may not do anything.

I have not played Nidz in a long time, BUT if I did again I would use the Carnifexen solely as tanks... set them up in cover and shoot. If they took some wounds and were getting close to being destroyed I would move them back behind cover and roll for regen. The more wounds they have lost the better your chances that they will regen. I see people wanting to get their Carnifexen in close combat, moving them out into the open, where they are shot to pieces and generally die quickly. I think they are overrated in close combat against enemy units that excel in assault... for example, a Space Marine veteran with a powerfist can take them down quickly. I would probably field two Carnifexen with venom cannon and barbed strangler each (not sure if you can take both on one carnifex), extended carapace, regen, extra wound, and the upgrade for +1BS. In cover at least they will get a save against lascannons and other high S low AP guns.

- Greenie

Posted By Green Bloater on 02/22/2007 3:38 PM
I have not played Nidz in a long time, BUT if I did again I would use the Carnifexen solely as tanks... set them up in cover and shoot. If they took some wounds and were getting close to being destroyed I would move them back behind cover and roll for regen. The more wounds they have lost the better your chances that they will regen. I see people wanting to get their Carnifexen in close combat, moving them out into the open, where they are shot to pieces and generally die quickly. I think they are overrated in close combat against enemy units that excel in assault... for example, a Space Marine veteran with a powerfist can take them down quickly. I would probably field two Carnifexen with venom cannon and barbed strangler each (not sure if you can take both on one carnifex), extended carapace, regen, extra wound, and the upgrade for +1BS. In cover at least they will get a save against lascannons and other high S low AP guns.

- Greenie

Unless you're playing a Godzilla list, your heavy Carnifexes should generally stay put in cover (except to move to capture a table quarter). Any player who isn't doing that doesn't really understand what they're doing anyway.

You're completely right about using them as a tank, and yes you can take a Barbed Strangler and Venom Cannon (that's the standard Gunfex build).

However the regeneration tactic you mention is flawed because Regeneration is done at the start of the Tyranid player's turn and ven a Carnifex who has suffered 4 wounds may or may not regenerate any of those wounds.

Are you going to put your Carnifex out of LOS in order to gamble that you may or may not regenerate wounds? Because the only thing you can count on in that scenario is that your Carnifex won't be firing at your opponent's army.