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Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




They fixed the grot gunner on the megatrakk skrapjet! Rejoice! That stat hurt my inner fluffbunny
   
Made in us
Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter







Highlight for me:
Q: If a Freebooterz unit comprised entirely of Gretchin
destroys an enemy unit in a phase, do other friendly units
within 24" that have the Competitive Streak kultur add 1 to
their hit rolls until the end of that phase?
A: Yes, unless the friendly unit in question is also
comprised entirely of Gretchin

Looks like freebooter mek gunz and kanz might be worth a look at for buffing the other units. I'm confident freeboota mek gunz could trigger it regularly. I'd like to think Kanz can trigger it but they just really struggle to reach their targets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 16:56:54


Lots of pts of Orks
3000 pts of AdMech and punchy-choppy Knights
Ork Shooting Probability feat. Dakka Dakka Dakka, re-rolls, and More Dakka 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider






No moore "loot it" controversy for the embarked units. Ruled in favor of orks.

Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! 
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







Looks good overall. A few exploits fixed and the Goff trait actually does something.

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob






That looks like the green light in the FAQ on dual choppas or Choppa/klaw, etc.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




After 47 pages some of you finally noticed what makes deffskullz so good
   
Made in us
Xeno-Hating Inquisitorial Excruciator




MI

They also made it so index Big Guns are now counted as entirely of GRETCHIN. Not surprising, but I know there were some people out there that were considering taking advantage of them still being mixed units pre-FAQ
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Wowza. if you asked me to write a perfect 2-week FAQ for orks, I think that's pretty much exactly what I would have come up with. Loot It works as intended, Freeboota grot units works as written, I can snag a power klaw on my waagh banner nob so he can be WYSIWYG, the goffs trait isn't useless (it's not great, but it's got fun synergy with 'eadwhoppa's killchoppa and other weapons, so it doesn't feel like a punishment to take it) we know you can't use stratagems on open topped transports, you do indeed squeeze extra PL's of units into the tellyporta when they're embarked...

Yeah, I'm a happy ork this morning.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Also, for people wishing the front page had a unit-by-unit tactica, I've been writing up my own review/tier list based on the dozen or so games I've gotten in. since we're looking for a new thread home, we should probably start discussing our thoughts overall: (still WIP on units, I need to do the flyers, haven't done strats, relics or traits yet)

Spoiler:
Tier levels:

Auto-Include: Options that are so good at their job that you need to justify NOT taking them, rather than justifying TO take them. I will only hand out this rating to units that are so good, they bully out otherwise good/situational choices for performing their role (As an example from another codex, the "Alaitoc" -1 to hit craftworld trait compared to nearly every other craftworld)

Good: this is a choice that, in most circumstances, you will not see significant problems including in your list. In the case of a unit this would be one that if you switch army traits doesn't go from good to bad, though I will still give this rating to a unit that goes from good to amazing if you select the right army trait.

Situational: a choice that is really only good under a particular set of circumstances - for example, a unit that's only good in one or two particular army traits, or an army trait that's only good with one type of build.

Unviable: A unit that is really under-par no matter what you do for it. Again like the top tier I'm usually pretty charitable since I don't think purely from a tourney perspective (where, yeah, just take the Auto-include and good options...) but from a more holistic, average game meta angle.

Army Traits:

Blood Axes: Situational, bordering on Unviable.

In another book, this could be a good trait, but for the other options Orks have, I just do not know about the Blood Axes. We have an army that does not like to fight outside 18" and does not have great armor saves in general, and our melee units in general are not the ones doing the Falling Back. This trait might be interesting in a list that uses a lot of the charge-happy buggies (Skrapjets and Boosta-Blastas) along with some bully units like small squads of kommandos, stormboyz and warbikes. But it'd be an exercise in trying to make Blood Axes work rather than a real boon from the Kultur.

Snakebites: Situational.

I can think of only a couple reasons you might want Snakebites, and they really all rely on their warlord trait, or their fun little relic. They would probably be a bit better if Deff Skullz didn't exist, but...yeah...they do. If you're running Snakebites, my top pick would be a Battalion with a ton of Gretchins, a Big Mek with KFF warlord with the fearless grot trait, the second HQ being something mobile like maybe an index bikerboss with the Killa Klaw. Then soup it up with something that wants to take advantage of the best users of Grot Shields in the game, like maybe a loota-heavy Bad Moonz detachment. In a less competitive meta you might take some Killa Kanz in there too for morale immune distraction carnifexing.

Freebootas: Situational.

That situation is "I would like to use Flash Gitz" usually - because like Militarum Tempestus, maybe you're not super pleased with their trait, but if you have enough of them, it's better than nothing. The nice thing about the flash gitz is that really all you need to do to grab a detachment is to either bring 3 units of gretchin (no traits anyway) and 2 HQs, or 1 HQ and fill the rest of your mandatory slots for a spearhead with super-cheap mek gunz. Unfortunately for the soup-filled game that 40k is nowadays, Freebootas really suffer from wanting to be in as big a detachment as possible - you'll almost never trigger your single unit of flash gits with the two other heavy supports you brought along, but if your whole army were freebootas, that's gonna be pretty easy to make happen. So as a whole, Freebootas is quite good (Kultur and Warlord Trait in particular) but if you're playing a competitive meta where soup is the norm, you'll probably mostly leave it at home, and Flash Gitz along with it for the trouble you have to go through to get them a trait.

Bad Moonz: Situational.

The reason for this should probably be self-evident: Orks have a lot of purely melee-focused units, and if you're running a BM detachment, well, you better bring the shooters! And in particular, because Deffskullz and Freebootas exist, you should probably be looking into a big, hefty unit of something shooty like tankbustas or lootas in order to make good use of Showin' Off. Favorite units of the Bad Moonz are Megatrakk Scrapjets, Morkanauts and other "Kustom Mega" type units because they can juke those mortal wounds, Lootas, Shoota Boyz in big squads, and Tankbustas.

Goffs: Situational.

I only rank Goffs situational because it is purely a melee buff, so it heavily slants your army into just the melee-focused units. There's not much to say about it - it's just a really solid trait if you like your orks to hit hard and not shoot too much. It's also got a couple of nice cookies in the form of Ghazghul and Zagstruk, who while they might not be the best HQs orks have at least each provide something very different than their generic counterparts. Goffs and Bad Moonz alike only get a situational rating because they do heavily skew your army build.

Deffskullz: Good.

There are almost no units that don't like being Deffskullz, and several that are really amazingly good with this trait. Deffcoptas, Kustom Mega weapon users, Shokkjump Dragstas, heck even min Boyz squads start looking solid when you have a maximum of six free rerolls per unit per turn AND a 6++ AND obsec infantry. What a trait! It does tend to push your build towards being MSU (or having one weapon you REALLY care about in a unit like a power klaw, tankbusta bomb or rokkit) but it's got so many other cookies that you really can't go wrong picking this trait.

Evil Sunz: Good.

Another one that's just in general good, and in particular really really amazing. Footsloggers, fast movers, deep strikers and pretty much any unit type likes being able to move fast, and the ubiquity of Assault weapons in the ork ranged arsenal makes the last bit of the tactic that much more wonderful. 40k despite the heavily kill-focused discussion online does very much hinge heavily on movement - being able to be where you want to be is still a huge advantage. Evil Sunz will most likely be making at least somewhat of an appearance in every tournament list we see going forward because holy moly are they good at deep strike. I definitely wouldn't call this trait an auto-include, but it does kind of put the bully on some other traits like Blood Axes and Goffs where you wonder if the additional damage is worth losing the sheer reliability that Evil Sunz provides at getting into combat.

Unit-By-Unit tactica

HQ

Warboss: Situational

The warboss took a hefty points hit from index to codex, to the point where it's very tough to justify taking him over the index warboss on warbike, who costs a paltry handful more points for what you get out of him - 9" of additional movement and 6 S5 AP- shooting attacks. He is only not ranked "unviable" because many tournaments and events do not allow the index - meaning he's your only option for Waaagh on infantry. And even then, there is the warlord trait that grants that...

Warboss on Bike (Index): Auto-include

The bikeboss avoids being superseded by the new Deffkilla for one simple reason: He can take a power klaw, which can become the Killa Klaw. When you give a warbike the Killa Klaw and the Fists of Gork psychic power, you slide right into "one round KO's an imperial knight castellan" territory. All that and he also gives infantry the Waaagh ability? if your area allows the index, this guy is a vital tool that you have to justify not having.

Weirdboy: Auto-Include

Orks have some psychic powers that are Hard. To. Pass. Up. Fists of Gork, Da Jump, and in certain circumstances Warpath are absolutely top tier psychic powers, and Weirdboyz are a wonderful mix of cheap and extraordinarily reliable psykers, at least when it comes to a first cast in a crowd of orks. I think I would be very surprised to see a tournament ork list without at least one weirdboy, and on several occasions I have made use of the 1cp Warphead stratagem to make sure my Weirdboyz had all three of the important spells on them for a game.

Big Mek (index): Situational

Index big meks are the cheapest KFF platforms, and the situation where they shine is when you don't need a bike to keep up with your army. In an index-allowed setting with a footslogging army, a big mek might be the best choice.

Big Mek on Bike (index): Good

In most circumstances throwing this guy into your army is not a bad idea. He can keep up with most things, he's got character protection, and in combat he's not a terrible slouch either if you throw him a melee weapon. The biker mek is a good candidate if you wan to bring some of the warlord traits and auras that would be a bit wasted on a character you're going to fling haphazardly into combat, like say the Evil Sunz fall back and charge aura trait, or the Snakebites' squigbomb.

Big Mek in Mega Armor: Situational edging on Unviable

Do you have a footslogging army? And you NEED a KFF? And you don't want a Morkanaut? And the index is not allowed? Welllllllllllll....I guess take a mega-mek. Being the slowest thing in the codex while carrying an aura that requires you to keep up with stuff is not a good combo.

Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun: Situational

Are you running a shooty detachment and you just need to fill an HQ slot? Then this guy's not so bad. He's roughly equivalent to a KMK who pays a few points for being a Character, and he's nice for standing next to a couple stationary vehicles to repair them. I would still usually take 2 Weirdboyz as my HQs for my shooty detachment, or a KFF toting character of some sort.

Named characters will be rated with the assumption that you will already be taking their clan kultur, not "as a whole". So think "if I am already running Goffs, should I be taking Ghazghkull" not "Is it worth taking Goffs just to get Ghazghkull".

Kaptin Badrukk: Situational

Again as with the SAG this guy is just kind of meh. Doesn't put out a ton of damage. Competes with among our best units. Aura only works outside a transport and is nothing to write home about. I'd definitely never throw him in outside a Freebootas detachment, and I'd only put him in one if you had minimum 10 flash gits for him to buff.

Ghazghull: Good

Ghaz is spendy, but he is one heck of a beatstick if you deliver him up the field. I would say that a ride of some sort is mandatory for ol ghazzy, I'd probably throw him in a Bonebreaka with some nobz. You can really make the combat buffs stack up between ghaz, warpath, Skarboyz, and a waaagh banner - I'd be hard pressed to come up with a goff build that didn't bring the big boy along.

Zagstruk: Situational

Hey, he's a codex-legal character that moves fast and has a power klaw, so that's something. Totally eclipsed by the Killa Klaw bikeboss if you can take him. As an added bonus he's just randomly got a supa-cybork body!

Snikrot: Good.

He's a big choppa warboss that's got a captain aura and deep strikes - if you're taking Blood Axes, I'm sold. That is a big if though, since Blood Axes themselves arent amazing.

Grotsnik: Unviable

Doesn't fill up an HQ slot, doesn't do much that's very different from a regular dok, and his signature rule can be a negative...Kind of a head scratcher. If you're playing Deffskullz, take better HQs.

Zhardsnark: Good

Throwing him in because it seems like many people bring him, and Zhardsnark is actually quite tasty! Particularly in an Evil Sunz brigade, the trio of Zhard, Killa Klawboss, and Deffkilla Wartrike gives you a pretty nasty CC HQ squad. Zhard's Pain Klaw does more damage than any upfront HQ other than the Killa Klawboss, and even then he only gets beaten out by .5 damage on average.

Troops:

Gretchins: Auto-Include

Our stratagems are good. To use stratagems we need CPs. To generate CPs, gretchins are over twice as efficient as boyz - so there you go! As a bonus, Grot Shields is incredibly powerful as stratagems go. I don't think it's controversial to say that there will be no top table ork list without gretchins in the codex.

Boyz: Situational

Ah boyz, how far you have fallen. From "the only decent thing in the index" to "good in some circumstances, lackluster in many others." Ork boyz are a very solid chaff clearing unit if you can deliver them to combat while they are still over 20 models in the unit - and therein lies the struggle. When transported, you can only ever make their unit 20 models, and when footslogging, they have a bad habit of getting filled with lasers and bullets. The most obvious and common tool for getting them where they're going is the "Da Jump" psychic power, and the Tellyporta deep strike stratagem. Of course, prior to the codex the other preferred method to get 30 boyz into combat unmolested was to start with about 120 - but that gets a bit spendy in the codex. As a MSU unit, they definitely leave something to be desired - for the same midstrength combat role, nobz are more efficient to transport, and shoota boyz with their 5+ BS tend to be shockingly lackluster in terms of damage output. I think almost all lists will be taking at least one big 30-blob to act as a deep striking distraction, but I doubt the trend of all-boyz lists will be continuing.

OK. So maybe you're in a casual meta, and maybe you just want to play your ork boyz, and a single da jumped/tellyported blob into the enemy's face as a distraction just ain't doing it for you. You don't care if they win Nova for you, you just want an ork army with a lot of boyz.

For footsloggers, I would definitely go Goffs. The ability to run boyz as Skarboyz makes them significantly better at killing things, and access to Ghazzy's aura makes a footslogging horde scary, even if they lose a lot of boyz going in. Bring as many min gretchin squads as you can, and hard dedicate any CP that didn't go to making skarboyz to Endless Green Tide and Grot Shield stratagems to keep your horde ticking. The alternative arrangement I'd recommend would be Snakebites, 'Ard Boyz stratagem, and advancing up the field with some morale-immune Killa Kanz using loot it any time one of them bites the dust. In general, spend your CP on keeping the horde alive, and trust that buffed up boyz will do enough damage when they get there to wipe out what you come across.

If you're a fan of the ol' trukk boyz, I would definitely reach for Deffskullz. Those rerolls make the single Tankbusta bomb, Rokkit, and power klaw in the minimum squad pack that much more punch, and they actually become worth the relatively hefty 160-ish point pricetag if they get to reroll pretty much everything of consequence they do. Not super worth it, but this is the "I like boyz" section.

Elites:

Nobz: Good

Nobz can do a variety of things, and at their new points cost and with their new options, they are quite the mid-cost all rounder! It's almost always worthwhile to give these guys a Trukk, and stick a couple ammo runts with them to take the fall if the trukk gets blown up. If you do get a chance to use Loot It on them you get what is essentially a 14ppm Primaris Reiver. For weaponry, Big Choppas and double choppas seem to be the preferred loadouts - either for the S7 Ap-1 D2 anti elite combat, or just spamming tons of S5 AP- for chopping chaff. Combi weapons, power klaws and killsaws do seem to be a little bit spendy for what you get.

Nob with Waagh Banner: Good

There are few lists where including a +1WS aura is not at least useful. Obviously the counterexample is a shooting list, in which case yeah leave him at home. The waaagh nob has two big downsides: he doesn't actually have the power klaw modeled on him, so he has to rely on slapping enemies about the face with his huge, long, rock-hard pole, which is not quite as impactful even if it does get style points. Also, he's an elite rather than an HQ so he doesn't make CPs happen, which you like to see for an aura-granting character. But I'd say he's still generally good, and in a few situations like footslogging hordes an auto-include.

Burna Boyz: Unviable

I can't really come up with a situation where these guys are useful. Orks really aren't that bad at killing chaff models, and burna boyz are in this weird spot where they're kind of anti horde, kind of anti elite, and kind of way too squishy for their point cost. I was really hoping we'd get a stratagem like kill team where you treat their burnas as D6 shots for a CP, but unfortunately, no dice. The best situation for burnas IMO would be 4x burnas, 1x Spanna with KMB in a Deffskullz detachment, but that's mostly just to get the KMB on the field. And if you want that you can always take a -

Mek: Situational

Deffskullz mek with a KMB (index wargear for some positively goofy reason) is quite a good little model. I'd say you'd have a hard time finding a solid niche for one of these guys outside of deffskullz however - maybe Bad Moonz, maybe Freebootas, but really its the wall of rerolls from Deffskulls that makes him half-decent. If you're limited to Codex wargear only...then skip him.

Meganobz: Good

Manz got price drops in every orifice from the index to codex, and now they're positively dripping with value. Their weapons went down, their bodies went down, their transports went down, and they gained some absolutely bonkers stratagems in the Tellypora Pad (they even get mileage out of their frickin' power level going down in Matched!) and the Loot It strat. Evil Sunz Meganobz popping out of deep strike are the absolute business, and the jury's still out as to whether they or triple deff dreads are the preferred method to deliver a big scary murder party to your opponent's heavy armor.


Kommandos: Good

Kommandos have always been a relatively simple unit in 8th, and they gained in a couple areas - getting a free tankbusta bomb per 5, getting a bonus to wound enemy units in cover, and benefitting from the tweaked 'ere we go. When you look at Evil Sunz, they go from "good" to almost "auto-include" particularly if you play in an area where the index is allowed, and they still get their free burna.

Nobz on Warbikes: Unviable

Given how easily orks have access to deep strike now, the ability to speedily deliver hard hitting weaponry is better done for cheaper and more durably by units like meganobz, bikers with character protection, and Deff Dreads. 38ppm base is just incredibly high. If you wanted to use nob bikers, the best loadout might be something like Big Choppa/Choppa or Big Choppa/Power Stabba to make them some kind of elite hunter.

Painboy: Situational

The painboy still struggles a bit with the problem of justifying his cost while being 65 points. You have to save/heal a BUNCH of wounds before he's worth just buying more models. If you aren't going the smashboss route, the painboy can wield the Killa Klaw almost as well as a warboss, giving him nasty unexpected punch, but his durability is low so you'd be pretty unhappy using him as a dedicated cc character. If you're running footslogging boyz, you may as well throw one in unless you're going snakebites, who don't stack with his buff.

Runtherd: Situational, nearly Unviable

Similar to the painboy, you have to run a lot of gretchins to make runtherds a useful investment, since they cost almost as much as a whole replacement squad of gretchins for the squad you lost because he wasn't there to stop them running away. Also, in the codex he doesn't even help you fill elite slots in a brigade. When you do take him, it's generally for the Squig Hound morale save and not for the reroll 1s in the fight phase - 8% more Strength 2 melee hits is rarely going to make a huge difference.

Tankbustas: Good, nearly Auto-Include

Surprise Surprise, one of our best units when given no changes and tossed great stratagems and kultur rules is still one of our best units. Bustas make a wonderful glass cannon shooting unit, and can work well with a variety of different kulturs: Freebootas boosts their ballistic skill, Deffskullz makes sure those womp-womp squig bomb 1s to hit don't happen, Bad Moonz lets them serve as a potent suicide unit shooting twice, even Evil Sunz lets them scream around the battlefield in an advancing trukk blowing things away. Keep in mind their synergy with the Stikkbomb 1cp stratagem to solidly double their damage output when they can get within 6" of their target.

Fast Attack

Boomdakka Snazzwagon: Unviable

The Snazzwagon would nearly squeak into situational territory if it weren't for an extremely similar unit that pretty much does what it does but much, MUCH better: the Dakkajet. Unfortunate that the "Mek Speshul" uses the old Index profile for the Snazzgun and not the new, much improved codex version, which would have given the Snazzwagon a more definite role as an elite hunter. It's cheap enough that it's not an offensive burden on your list to include one, but you really should only do so for preference to the model: Dakkajets pretty much beat this guy out in every category, and they're still not what you would call outstanding.

Deffcoptas: Situational

If you're in an index environment, Deffcoptas are arguably the best toters of the much-feared Deffskullz Kustom Mega Blasta around. When it's got a reroll to hit, wound, and damage, KMBs are a force to be reckoned with. For everyone else, Deffcoptas are not quite damaging enough to be a viable attack unit, not quite durable enough to be properly annoying, not quite cheap enough to be a good throwaway unit and not quite useful enough to include in a list. They suffer from having a lot of competitition and paying for weapons that other units use much more effectively (the problem with pretty much any non-gretchin, non-tankbusta rokkit unit). And if you want big shootas...don't...want that? S5 AP- 1D is pretty terrible in 8th, theres no reason to spam it.

Kustom Boosta-Blasta: Good

So you say you want to kill infantry with one of the new buggies, well, now we're talking! The KBB combines a wonderfully reliable quad-burna anti chaff tool with a solid elite/light armor hunting weapon and a cute little mortal wound ram ability for a discount price. The KBB seems to be the only one of the new buggies that really hit on what GW was going for with them: All-rounders that aren't amazing at anything but pay a relatively cheap price for what you can get, so when you have a game where one of their abilities comes up clutch they feel really valuable. Decent with any shooty kultur or Evil Sunz as one of the few units that really makes good use of the Drive-By Krumpin stratagem.

Megatrakk Skrapjet: Good

Arguably the best of the new buggies because of its relative specialization in the realm of anti-tank. Everything it does, barring 4 big shootas, is anti tank focused, and the big shootas have such long range it's pretty tough to end up in a situation where they can't find a target. Also the best at melee of all the buggies thanks to the KBB's mortal wound ability and the excellent nose cone weapon. Again, this vehicle is nice in any shooting kultur, particularly Freebootas where its various abilities make it quite gifted at going first and finishing off a vulnerable target to trigger everybody's +1 to hit. Also good for Evil Sunz as they can offset its natural slowness and get it to its optimal use case of shoot-then-charge a vehicle faster.

Ruckatrukk Squigbuggy: Unviable

Not much to say here. GW dun goofed with the stats on this one. Maybe we should take the weakest buggy, worse against pretty much every target you can think of than the KBB, and inexplicably make it 40% MORE expensive. Just...run this thing as a second skrapjet or something.

Shokkjump Dragsta: Good

Honestly the biggest downside to the Shokkjump is the existence of the Skrapjet. Even so, it provides good, reliable anti-tank firepower, and you won't be sad putting one in your list. Best with the Bad Moonz kultur since the rerolls of 1 both help it avoid mortal wounding itself and are very likely to hit when you re-roll them. Funny with the Evil Sunz kultur because it'll be jumping all over the place, but they're so crazy mobile in the first place with evil sunz you rarely make more distance than you ordinarily would.

Stormboyz: Situational

They got a bit of a nerf from the codex, but they also got native deep strike which is quite good. Now the question is "Stormboyz or Kommandos" since they're very close in role and price, and I think the best choice if you're filling a brigade might actually be "por que no los dos" because they fill different slots and they're both super cheap. In an either or situation where the index is at play, the free tankbusta bomb, cover rules, and two burnas give the Kommandos the edge over stormboyz in most circumstances.

Warbikes: Situational

Less terrible than they were! But still they just barely manage to make "mediocre." Warbikes in the evil sunz kultur can reliably get into combat turn 1, making them a solid antichaff tool for the points cost. Boyz are roughly twice as effective at the role if you can Da Jump or deep strike them in, and fill troops slots, which is most likely why you won't see a ton of Warbikes hitting the field, but at this point they're not offensive to use and can exert a lot of board control after their initial hit. It is also worth noting that they're about 25% more durable per point than Boyz against the kinds of low strength AP- weapons that common chaff units tend to have. The problem comes when your opponent starts putting multidamage weapons into them, where they crumple extremely quickly.

Heavy Support

Battlewagons: Good, Gunwagons: Unviable, Bonebreakas: Good

It's back baby! With a substantial buff to the Deffrolla and a huge price drop, melee-focused battlewagons got pretty awesome. The big choice is between Battlewagon and Bonebreaka: Gunwagons essentially pay 20 points for the ability to fire a 15-point gun twice...no thanks. The big choice is: Does what I transport care about shooting out before I charge? If it doesn't, the bonebreaka is fully worth the extra 20 points for more deffrolly goodness. If it does, a Battlewagon is cheaper and nearly as strong in combat. Deepstriking a battlewagon is a wonderful way to get units like nobz, meganobz, Tankbustas or any other high value infantry units into combat, though you do have to consider that they'll realistically only be into combat turn 3. If you just opt into running the wagon at the enemy, remember that it'll almost certainly be a priority target, and try to make sure it's under a KFF aura.


Deff Dreads: Good

Another major benefactor of codex buffs and stratagems, Deff Dreads have gone from utterly unviable to a real scary deep strike threat. 3 deff dreads strike for 2CP, giving you an absurdly reliable threat for your Evil Sunz army. Alternatively, the Deffskulls have the excellent Klaw/Saw/Saw/KMB build which does similar things to an identically armed Deffkopta but also shreds things in close combat. Every codex we have the age-old Kanz or Dreads debate, and in this one, Dreads definitely win out.

Killa Kanz: Situational

No kulturs, morale struggles and a buffed up Deff Dread make Killa Kanz an unfortunately fiddly investment. If you do like the Kan Wall idea still, I would recommend taking them in a footslogging list with Snakebites Kultur, using a KFF big mek with the special Snakebites warlord trait. Put a nice layer of Gretchins in front, Boyz in back, Kanz near the boyz, and you can use Loot It every time a kan gets popped to up the armor save of your boyz - makes for a nicely defensive greentide list. Otherwise, there's little 2 kanz provide that 1 deff dread doesn't do better.

Morkanaut: Situational

Morkanauts go up in value when you're in an environment where the index isn't allowed, ruling out regular and biker big meks. Their anti-tank firepower isn't exactly bad, but they pay a lot of points for their somewhat mediocre heavy melee, which they likely won't get to use because they're gonna get shot at for giving your army an invuln save. There's a lot of competition in the ork roster for best anti-heavy vehicle firepower, and Morkanauts are not the best at that job by any means. Morkanauts really like being Bad Moonz in particular because it helps you avoid those self-inflicted mortal wounds.

Gorkanaut: Situational

Gorkanauts have a bit more of a general niche of melee beatmonster, particularly with Goffs kultur since they generate multiple hits with a single roll of a 6 in close combat. They can handily deep strike with a minimum size squad of meganobz, or nobz+an ammo runt for an extra follow up punch. They do compete with the triple deff dread squad for a similar role, but you won't necessarily be sad if you put them into that role. They tend to be a bullet sponge if they are not deep struck - if you want to walk a naut, make it a morka so it might survive a bit longer against the inevitable high-AP firepower.

Mek Gunz: KMK, Good. Bubblechukka, Unviable. Smasha Gun, Auto-include. Trakktor Kannon, Auto-Include.

Mek Gunz may seem to have been given a nerf with the loss of the grot crew and no kultur, but Smasha Gunz received a price reduction and a doubling of firepower making them AMAZINGLY good at upfront anti tank firepower. You really have to work to figure out a good reason NOT to include Smasha gunz and Trakktor kannons in your list now, they're just incredible for dealing with many things orks ordinarily struggle with. These will be a staple of competitive ork lists until they get a nerf, period.

Flash Gitz: Situational

Flash Gitz are a very fun unit aesthetically and potentially in-game with their "shoot again on sixes" rule, but they can be very awkward to fit into a list and you really want to structure your army around them. Ideally, about half or more of your list should be Freebootas to see any really impactful benefit out of their kultur, and there's not a great reason to include Flash Gitz over their direct competition, Lootas, if the lootas are receiving a shooting kultur and the gitz are not. In a direct mano-a-mano competition, Gitz get a bunch of extras over lootas for free - an extra +1 to hit on 3 shots, the Ammo runt, Gun Crazy Show-Offs, 4+ armor, decent melee stats - while still dishing very comparable damage out, but Lootas can easily sit in the back next to a mek gun (for loot it! when it dies) and behind a squad of gretchin (for grot shields) and just cheerily grind their points back over a turn or two. Would I rank either unit as situational? No, they warp your list choices much more than just throwing more Smasha Gunz at the problem. Are either bad if you do put in the work to support them properly? No, they tend to be fine. I like the gitz myself because when you do get them really going in a transport parked midfield with the +1 to hit they just start TEARING through enemy units, but the lootas definitely are more consistent.

Lootas: Situational

See above. You probably want Bad Moonz (Because shoot twice is very nice on that turn when you rolled 3 shots for your Deffguns) and you definitely want bare minimum a unit of gretchins to stand in front and Grot Shield them from incoming enemy fire. Deffskullz can also work with min squads, getting the rerolls to hit and wound, but I think Bad Moonz is really where it's at for lootas. Only one squad can get grot shielded after all, so you want that squad to be as big as it can be, and that puts you in the perfect spot for getting that 3 on your number of shots, popping More Dakka and Showin' off and letting it rip.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/19 17:17:48


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

FAQ Dropped, and they clarified Loot It

Page 127 – Stratagems, Loot It!
Change the first and second sentences of rules text
to read:
‘Use this Stratagem when a Vehicle unit is destroyed.
Select an Ork Infantry unit from your army that was
either within 3" of the vehicle or embarked within it
when it was destroyed
. Improve the Save characteristic
of that infantry unit by 1 (e.g. a Save characteristic of 6+
will become a Save characteristic of 5+), to a maximum
of 2+.’

So you can totally get armor from a destroyed transports, and 1+ saves are no longer a thing.

Also, Goffs now have a proper warlord trait

Page 133 – Warlord Traits, Goffs: Proper Killy
Change the rules text to read:
‘Add 1 to your Warlord’s Attacks characteristic. In
addition, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic
of melee weapons this Warlord is equipped with by 1
during any turn in which they made a charge move, were
charged, or performed a Heroic Intervention (e.g. AP -1
becomes AP -2).


Blood Axe copters confirmed to be awesome

Q: Are Blood Axe units with the Fly keyword allowed to both
shoot and charge in a turn in which they Fell Back?
A: Yes.


And you cannot cheese the Kultur system with Big Gunz

Designer’s Note: Although many grots follow a particular
clan into war, due to their puny and feeble nature they do not
themselves exhibit the traits of any particular clan (for example,
the teef of grots within a Bad Moons warband do not grow
any faster). For this reason, grots do not benefit from any Clan
Kultur. This includes Big Gunz from Index: Xenos 2, and
Grot Tanks and Grot Mega-tanks from Imperial Armour –
Index: Xenos, all of which are, for rules purposes, considered
to be units comprised entirely of Gretchin.


Mek Gunz can give the Freebooter buff

Q: If a Freebooterz unit comprised entirely of Gretchin
destroys an enemy unit in a phase, do other friendly units
within 24" that have the Competitive Streak kultur add 1 to
their hit rolls until the end of that phase?
A: Yes, unless the friendly unit in question is also
comprised entirely of Gretchin.


Bah, I'm too slow. Need a red computer and keyboard, so I can pasta faster.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/11/19 17:29:46


What I have
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~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

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Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Wait, so meganobz can't use loot it anymore? Or rather, they can but there's no point..

"[...]Improve the Save characteristic of that infantry unit by 1 (e.g. a Save characteristic of 6+ will become a Save characteristic of 5+), to a maximum of 2+."
   
Made in au
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Perth, Western Australia

whoa!...I'm quite surprised by this...get stuffin' those battlewagons lads!

"Q: When using the Tellyporta Stratagem on a Transport,
do I include the Power Rating of units embarked inside when
calculating if the Power Rating is 20 or less?
A: No"

...it's good to be green!  
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 ZoBo wrote:
whoa!...I'm quite surprised by this...get stuffin' those battlewagons lads!

"Q: When using the Tellyporta Stratagem on a Transport,
do I include the Power Rating of units embarked inside when
calculating if the Power Rating is 20 or less?
A: No"


Oh wow, that's a surprise. Then why power level 20? Do we have anything in the codex that equals that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't understand the change to Grot Shields.
Can someone explain the significance?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 17:31:33


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in au
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Perth, Western Australia

I guess no deepstriking stompas or gargantuan squiggoths...other than that I think it's pretty much free game now...

...it's good to be green!  
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Scrapjet wording is bugging me because theres 2 of them but its worded not "One has +1 to hit" but like it only has 1 to begin with lol....

Flatout saying embarked units can loot their transport instead of having an extremely wordy "process" paragraph is very appreciated.

Goff special warlord trait gains +1 ap....ok? Still prefer the +1S +1A lol.

Surprisingly not that much changed. Mostly clarifying crap we speculated but was hazy on

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

At least goffs get a warlord trait.
+1 AP is nice. You can now flat out ignore 3+ saves with the power klaw.

Also, a max squad of meganobz is powerlevel 20. 3 Squiggybuggies are 21, and a stompa is 46.
So that explains that limit.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/19 17:50:06


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
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I'm just over the moon about maintaining freebootas triggering off grots. It most likely won't be sweeping any tournaments, because it's not a Bad Moonz shoot twice gimmick, but I'm incredibly pleased that my many killa kanz, grot tanks and grot mega tank isn't totally useless, and that I have more excuses to bring my beloved Flash Gitz to the table.

   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 ZoBo wrote:
whoa!...I'm quite surprised by this...get stuffin' those battlewagons lads!

"Q: When using the Tellyporta Stratagem on a Transport,
do I include the Power Rating of units embarked inside when
calculating if the Power Rating is 20 or less?
A: No"


Oh wow, that's a surprise. Then why power level 20? Do we have anything in the codex that equals that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't understand the change to Grot Shields.
Can someone explain the significance?


Before: Lascannon hits, wounds, causes 6 wounds, you roll 6 dice. For each 2+ remove grot, for each 1 wound goes to original target. This is big buff. Too bad it was 2 days too late for me Leviathan killed 26 grots and 3 lootas in 2 turns from not having this FAQ then as the 12 shots at D2 were perfect grot screen removals.

(shoots 12 time, say hits and wounds 9 time. I had to roll 9 times 2 dice. If I roll two 2+ I lost 2 gretchin. 1 and 2+, lost loota and gretchin. Rolled double 1 lost 1 loota. This made grot screen less efficient than usual with about 30% chance of losing loota and most of time then also 1 grot and also makes rolling those sloooooooooow)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 17:44:49


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 Kaiyanwang wrote:

No moore "loot it" controversy for the embarked units. Ruled in favor of orks.


There’s a first time for everything (I’m still salty about the battle wagon ruling; cmon now).
All in all, about what was expected, minus the looted ruling; I’m saddened no kultur on grot anything, but what can you do?
I also don’t like that Grots can’t benefit from monster hunter either.
That everything else works the way it should though, is nice.
The real surprise is non-dice rolling advances still benefitting from +1".
I don’t like fight again being nerfed to end of phase though; that allows too much to happen in between - namely, the enemy getting to fight back. Changes the math against big targets too much.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/19 17:53:35


 
   
Made in us
Widowmaker






Chicago

Okay, someone try this for me. I don't have the minis to do so. Teleport in a Battlewagon (8 PR) with:

(3) Warbosses (12 PR)
(3) SAG Meks (12 PR)
(3) Weirdboys (9 PR)
(3) Painboys (9 PR)
(3) Nobs with Waaagh Banners (12 PR)
(3) Meks (6 PR)
(2) Runtherds (4 PR)

20 models in a Battlewagon. Total PR = 8+12+12+9+9+12+6+4 = 72 PR

DS:80S++G+++M----B--I--Pwmhd03/f#+D++A++++/sWD250R++T(S)DM+++

Elvis needs boats. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 oomiestompa wrote:
Okay, someone try this for me. I don't have the minis to do so. Teleport in a Battlewagon (8 PR) with:

(3) Warbosses (12 PR)
(3) SAG Meks (12 PR)
(3) Weirdboys (9 PR)
(3) Painboys (9 PR)
(3) Nobs with Waaagh Banners (12 PR)
(3) Meks (6 PR)
(2) Runtherds (4 PR)

20 models in a Battlewagon. Total PR = 8+12+12+9+9+12+6+4 = 72 PR


You have three Big Mek’s hitting on 6’s, 3 meks that can have KMB hitting on 5’s, and a whole bunch of other units doing absolutely nothing.

It’s a cute thought experiment, but...
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Yep, the new ruling is pretty weird.
Like, you can either teleport in 10 mega nobz for 20PL or Battlewagon + 10 meganobz for 8PL.

Its the only real change in the FAQ that I disagree with, because it's counter intuitive.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Xeno-Hating Inquisitorial Excruciator




MI

My assumption is that they view not being able to disembark until turn 3 as a balance to having lots of embarked units for the Tellyporta
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 oomiestompa wrote:
Okay, someone try this for me. I don't have the minis to do so. Teleport in a Battlewagon (8 PR) with:

(3) Warbosses (12 PR)
(3) SAG Meks (12 PR)
(3) Weirdboys (9 PR)
(3) Painboys (9 PR)
(3) Nobs with Waaagh Banners (12 PR)
(3) Meks (6 PR)
(2) Runtherds (4 PR)

20 models in a Battlewagon. Total PR = 8+12+12+9+9+12+6+4 = 72 PR


How many points that is? Remember half the army still must start on board. 20PL for transport only but the contents DO count for the 50% limit you can put out of board. I'm pretty sure that 72 PL is going to be more than 50% of points in most games ;-)

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on the forum. Obviously

 ikeulhu wrote:
My assumption is that they view not being able to disembark until turn 3 as a balance to having lots of embarked units for the Tellyporta


Fair enough, and in matched play games it doesn't really matter as you are paying the points for it.
Its still bloody weird though.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 ikeulhu wrote:
My assumption is that they view not being able to disembark until turn 3 as a balance to having lots of embarked units for the Tellyporta


Yep. Also enemy just needs to surround battlewagon and destroy it and boom everybody dies. Makes it super risky.

Let's ask otherway around. If contents would count for 20PL what meaningful stuff you could put inside?

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 ikeulhu wrote:
My assumption is that they view not being able to disembark until turn 3 as a balance to having lots of embarked units for the Tellyporta


Yes; I’m not sold on embarking units in a battle wagon for this reason.
It arrives, charges, then gots shot up; afterwards, then embarked units also get shot up, and... you spent points on a unit inside that doesn’t do much.
The only units you’d want embarked in there are shooty ones, because they can at least try to do something.

Edit; or, as previous poster said, just surround it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 18:00:00


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




I'm also confused about the way they have FAQ'd the 20PL limit interaction with embarked units for Tellyporta. Doesn't really feel right to me. If they implement a similar rule for a different faction in this way it could be OP.

However, as others have stated stranding units that you want to be doing work for you in a BW until T3 doesn't seem like a good tactic. I'd be all over the 3xDread Tellyport, or even Megaz/Nobz.

The rest of the FAQ all seems fair, not broken/OP and really fits with the way I considered the rules had been intended. Especially Trukk Boyz being able to Loot their smashed up ride.

   
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on the forum. Obviously

tneva82 wrote:
 ikeulhu wrote:
My assumption is that they view not being able to disembark until turn 3 as a balance to having lots of embarked units for the Tellyporta


Yep. Also enemy just needs to surround battlewagon and destroy it and boom everybody dies. Makes it super risky.

Let's ask otherway around. If contents would count for 20PL what meaningful stuff you could put inside?


10 Tankbustas, 10 Lootas, 15 Burna boyz, 20 boyz or 6 mega nobz.
Comes to a total of 16, 16, 17, 19, 20 PL respectively.

Those would pretty much be your options, unless you want to stick with minimum squad sizes.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





crzylgs wrote:
I'm also confused about the way they have FAQ'd the 20PL limit interaction with embarked units for Tellyporta. Doesn't really feel right to me. If they implement a similar rule for a different faction in this way it could be OP.

However, as others have stated stranding units that you want to be doing work for you in a BW until T3 doesn't seem like a good tactic. I'd be all over the 3xDread Tellyport, or even Megaz/Nobz.

The rest of the FAQ all seems fair, not broken/OP and really fits with the way I considered the rules had been intended. Especially Trukk Boyz being able to Loot their smashed up ride.



Doesn't the eldar deep striking falcons work in same way though?

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
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